Upgrading wall outlets

I just swapped out a Porter Port for a Maestro outlet, and there was a significant improvement! Detail, soundstage depth and width increase, and I have to say it again, Detail.

Thanks for showing me the High Magnetic breakers. It turns out I am using square D as shown. I am thinking of buying a pair of Bryston 28SST amps. I probably will replace my breakers then.
The Leviton receptacle does have a supporting silver steel strap on the back. Why?

I just added two 20 amp circuits for my power amps using 10gauge with ground wire. I used Leviton 20A Heavy Duty Outlets.
03-22-10: Coxhaus

Coxhaus,

Is the supporting back strap of the Leviton receptacle made of steel?
(Magnetic ferrous material)
.

Coxhaus,

If a 20 amp receptacle is used, (NEMA 5-20R), then a 20 amp breaker must be used. The minimum size copper wire would be #12 awg. If #10 awg copper wire is used the breaker still has to be a 20 amp.

If a 15 amp duplex receptacle is used, (NEMA 5-15R), then a 15 or 20 amp breaker can be used. If the branch circuit wire is 14 awg then a 15 amp breaker must be used.

The current carrying guts inside a 15, 20, and 30, amp breaker are the same. Only the trip units are different.

If there is a problem with nuisance tripping caused by inrush current of a power amp most breaker manufactures make a "High Magnetic" type breaker that will allow more lag time before tripping due to high inrush current.

Example:
http://ecatalog.squared.com/fulldetail.cfm?partnumber=QO120HM
.
Jim

I have a question about using 30 amp breakers. There are people using 30 amp breakers for there 10 gauge wire and 110 circuits. The only way I know to use a 30 amp breaker and meet code is to use 3 wire instead of 2 and install a 4 plex so each side of the 4 plex is 15 amps. Is there another way to meet code and use a 30 amp breaker? IF you were only going to plug a big amp in would a 20 amp breaker be preferred?

I just added two 20 amp circuits for my power amps using 10gauge with ground wire. I used Leviton 20A Heavy Duty Outlets. The difference is large. I have blacker back ground and smoother definition. I am also taking all appliances off the electric grid moving them to gas. This will create less demand for amps and to allow my stereo dedicated circuits to breathe more freely.

No secret that audiohiles are always looking for ways to improve their system, even suttle improvements can be a mile stone to some. I see no problem replacing a standard outlet to one that is upgraded, certainly couldn't hurt anything. I have had a passing thought of upgrading my outlet only because it no longer provides a tight fit for my heavy power cord, maybe the change can also offer a sonic improvement.

A quality aftermarket power cord (I mention this because of its importance in delivering power) can make a slight to huge difference in sound quality depending on the associated gear. As long as the power cord is supplying sufficient amperage the biggest advantage comes from its ability to filter out RFI. This creates a quieter soundstage allowing the finest details to come through.

A dedicated line is also good & I have one using 12/2 Romex. It was already there because I purchased my home from a videophile. On this dedicated line I don't have to worry about induced noises coming from appliance motors and florescent lighting nor brief periods of voltage drops when an appliance initially kicks in.

Unequivocally, yes.
I've had many of the same others have had: first PS Audio, then FIM 880 (gold and regular), now FIM on one outlet, Oyaide R1 on one and Synergistic Teslaplex on one. All different sounding: I THINK the Teslaplex may actually be the most neutral of them all, but I'm not sure. I'll plug both the integrated and the CD player into the Audience aR2-T (Teflon version, which will tell you everything you ever wanted to know about what your equipment ACTUALLY sounds like without making it sound "bass-ier", "more 3D" "better highs" and the like (although it can do that, but only per recording, not on ALL recordings [which would likely be a coloration, anyway, right?] and then report back. But yes, I had wondered why my highs were softened (pre-Audience, by the way) until I changed to the Oyaide and the lower treble range (trianges, tambourines) reappeared -- without brightness. I belive the FIM has a very slight suckout in that frequency as well as softening transients, although it's quite nice. The PS Audio Power Ports don't have that softening effect at all, but I haven't used them in years, so I'd have to re-install them.
Bottom line? Outlets matter.

As you have now realized, based on ACTUALLY TRYING THE UPGRADES YOURSELF, and on your own AURAL ACUITY; improvements to your power supply(whether internal to the components, or to your AC source) can yield obvious and audible benefits. KUDOS for ignoring the naysayers, pseudo-scientists and Julian Hirsch clones. HAPPY LISTENING!!

Well, I put in a PorterPort a week ago and the differance was very noticable. At first it was a little edgee. After two days of burn in it smoothed out and added depth and focus to my Oppo BDP-83. My Virtue Two is on battery power and that was a huge upgrade. Everyone may not here the differance as I did. But since I put wall treatments in my listening room I've been able to hear subtle differances. Hope this helps. zman

Donjr.. My PorterPorts took about a month to settle in..I love what it did to my system.

Donjr, I'm interestead in you outcome.

Change you wall socket to sure-grip hospital grade socket.

Now that the smoke has cleared from this thread, I'll tell you that I just ordered a Porter Port and will be running a dedicated circuit this weekend. Regardless of the argument, when someone says they noticed a very big improvement, I'm willing to spend $40 plus the cost of the wire (that I already have and purchased when gas was still cheap a few years ago) to find out for myself. My current outlet is old enough to be considered an antique and quite possibly could be 50 years old. If anyone's going to notice a difference, it's going to be me. I'll let you guys know in a week or two how it goes.

I installed Synergistic Research Teslaplex outlets on all three of my dedicated lines and the difference was huge! There is something to be said about there Quantum Tunneling process.

I've had very good results using Oyaide SWO-GX and Furutech gold plated. I did not have a good experience with some other aftermarket outlets and eventually took those out of the system.
My experimentation was done mostly with my CDP.

I can tell you - I changed fancy Leviton plugs to Porter Ports this week, and it made a very big difference for the better. The system is cleaner and clearer throughout,lyrics are much easier to understand, instruments I never knew were there, are clearly displayed. Porterports are certainly worth the asking price.

Let's break this down to a basic, black and white level first. The shades of gray can wait.

Will you spend thousands, even tens of thousands of dollars for an amp, speakers, etc., then plug it all into a 20 year old receptacle that is so worn out that it can barely keep the stock plug from falling out?

Saying, "but that's different" is an admission that receptacles make a difference. Saying "of course; why not?" means looking at that sagging cord and wondering and occasionally pushing the plug back in. Or not. Why would you if it doesn't matter?

Which side of the fence are you on? No sitting in the middle; it won't support you. It's too tall to straddle, too.

Whatcha gonna do?

Br3098, your points are well made. I have been in HiFi long enough to remember the introduction of 8track. I think it is easier to put in a new outlet than cleaning and adjusting an old one. The present interest in wires (of all kinds) is the result of no real technological advances in audio since CD (besides power switching amps, which I have) and the longevity of today's gear. Turntables, CD players, pre-amps, power amps, speakers; that's about it. If people are not swapping out their gear, you have to sell them something; outlets, power chords, interconnects, speaker terminals, speaker wire, etc for prices that indicate extremely large improvement. One can draw one's own conclusions.

Bob bundus:"ALL DOUBTING THOMAS'S SOUND THE SAME"

I take it as a compliment to be aligned with Doubting Thomas, but your analogy is nevertheless a particularly felicitous one, since our conflict--friendly, I hope--does appear to pit the religious against the skeptics. My problem with doubting Thomas is that he didn't doubt enough. In any case, though Thomas fingered the wound, I don't intend to finger a upgraded wall socket. Cheers, or Amen, depending.

But sales of expensive amplifiers depend on the audiophile's belief that quality/expense of any component is correlated with beautiful sound.

In most amplfiers the single most expensive item on the BOM will be be the beautiful thick brushed steel face plate. The control knobs are often the second most expensive item. The same goes for speakers - the woodwork and veneer is the most costly item. So nice high end gear is indeed truly expensive becuase teh actually are more costly to make.

Its not in the interest of amplifier manufacturers to provide high end power cords. Privately, the amplifier designers may not place much sonic value in high end power cords or wall outlets. But sales of expensive amplifiers depend on the audiophile's belief that quality/expense of any component is correlated with beautiful sound.

But what, exactly, constitues this "unreliability" of high end audio power supplies that you mention? And how would simlpy changing a household power outlet cause a significant change to the sound (via a change in output to the speakers) from said high end audio equipment?

There is no exact answer but many designs are less than adequate and response drifts both over time and due to sensitivity to operating temperature. These design issues create the mystique of burn in and and keeping equipment always on or warmed up. It is possible to design equipment to minimize these issues but that would mean some folks dismiss the gear as "unresolving".

On the outlet side - the countless number of ground loop issues due to poor design, equipment incompatibility and the wide use of RCA (unbalanced) alone explains why unplugging and plugging something back in will often change the response.

In my philosophy, when equipment performs unreliably you should change it. Whilst others see differences in performance as a sure sign that the gear has resolving power. Sales people will tend to propagate the opposing philosophy to what I hold - naturally, rather than admit that something performs a little inadequately (and perhaps take it back) they suggest instead that the buyer consider to purchase an expensive power cord or upgrade the home wiring because the gear is so resolving it requires it. (In other words, there is nothing wrong with the gear you just bought - look for your problem elsewhere. Rather a convenient an attractive philosophy for a sales person.)

You mean Caliburn, Boulder, etc, attempt to hold DOWN costs? I don't believe it. Or rather, I believe they attempt to hold their costs down, but not the price tag to he consumer. At a certain level (and maybe at lots of levels -- $2k/meter cables? -- the far and away most obvious selling point is just how damned expensive the product is compared to the alternatives!), higher price tag is what the consumer WANTS, and helps the sale. So the very highest cost/end manufacturers wouldn't, I think, hesitate to supply whatever they felt would induce the illusion of the truly best performance, including supplying dedicated power cords and electrical outlets and hosts of other "tweaks".

Some audiophiles always modify even their expensive gear because they are tweakers and want something unique, plain and simple.

Okay, I’ll take the bait.
All major manufactures attempt to hold costs down to be completive. Suggesting additional purchases or modifications suggests more dollars spent for additional equipment can be counter productive to a sale. Some audiophiles always have their expensive gear modified. Why you ask? Because the manufactures attempt to hold the cost down. This is true across the board at all levels.
You are playing devils advocate…we’ve seen this in audio ever since the start up of the internet and on line audio websites.

Gr3098's last question is excellent. I've often wondered at it myself. The old "aiming for a price point" excuse is not gonna fly here.

Hmmm, so now all of the psuedo-experts and engineers come out. Guys, by all means believe what you want to believe. By all means discount physics and electromagnetic theory.

Stanwal - I never claimed that I hadn't tried ever tried changing an outlet. Nor had I claimed that there could not be an improvement by do so. What I DID claim is that I don't believe that, in and of itself (and barring some major issue with the power delivery in an average home, which should be addressed at the source of the problem), changing an outlet will make a substantial difference in the sonic signature of an amplifier (or any other piece of analog and/or digital) audio gear.

Jea48 - Interesting article. It starts out with some good factual information, then concludes with some personal examples and advice which has little or no correlation with the factual information.

Bob_bundus - 'nuff said.

One last word: if "hospital grade outlets" are so important, why doesn't any high-end audio equipment manufacturer recommend this necessary upgrade? If super-expensive rooty-tooty power cords are so necessary, please advise me of which high-end audio equipment manufacturers design, build, sell and/or recommend this essential part? Can you explain why CJ, or ARC, or Krell, or McIntosh amongst others would both compromise their expensive systems and leave money on the table?

This thread is a hoot I must post the following short reminders...

...all amplifiers sound the same...
...all cables sound the same...
...all (insert ignorant statement) sound the same...

AND: ALL DOUBTING THOMAS'S SOUND THE SAME

fwiw: this one's been here for all of 90 days; what more would you expect? They come & they go. We've seeen it all after 10+ years on these boards.

I was only saying that the opinion of someone who had never listened to something should be given its proper value. By coincidence I was looking at the HIFICHOICE for this month in which Paul Messenger points out that in regard to outlets:" I've still found it possible to make quite dramatic changes in sound quality , using numerous usually mutually exclusive techniques of wildly varying prices." This has been the experience of most of us WHO HAVE ACTUALLY TRIED IT. Of course, we simple folk lack the wisdom of those who are able to know without actually having to go to the trouble of listening themselves. They live in the world of Aristotle and not of science where pure logic can tell you what will happen without messy experiments.

Shadorne, thank you for your careful explanation. But what, exactly, constitues this "unreliability" of high end audio power supplies that you mention? And how would simlpy changing a household power outlet cause a significant change to the sound (via a change in output to the speakers) from said high end audio equipment?

I'm not saying that no one ever heard a real difference after changing out an outlet. I'm simply suggesting that the real reason for the change is most likely not (as in almost certainly not) the reason that several of you have stated. Bad contacts, yes. Dirty, oxidzed or corroded connections, yes. Magical power genies, no.

"I am sure a chemist could prove by analysis that there is no significant difference between wines and those who claim the opposite are fooling themselves."- Stanwal

Robert Parker has a working memory of hundreds of wines, and he can identify them in blind tastings, and has done so, thus refuting your hypothetical--and in fact, unlikely--scientist. A moderately skilled oenophile, far below Robert Parker, can at least distinguish wines--if not name them--in blind tastings.

Cable, cord, and socket connoisseurs, on the other hand, reject blind tests, b/c blind tests never show that they hear what they say--and indeed believe--they can hear. That said, some of my best friends are cable freaks.

Br3098,

Some of the high end audio equipment is so unreliable that almost anything can cause a change in response. In fact some equipment probably never sounds the same twice ever anyway. In this case, every change including the material used in the cover plate on the wall socket to the minutest change in listening position ,volume level etc. will make an audible difference, sounding slightly different every time a critical observation is made.

As you correctly point out, some types of equipment are specificially designed (manufacturers go to great lengths) to ensure they are largely immune and largely robust to significant changes in the operating environment.

So it really depends what equipment you are referring to or what you prefer to use. Some folks will shun robust equipment as being unresolving and favor something that is highly setup dependent (resolving). For some, setup sensitivity to a variety of factors is good proof that the equipment is highly resolving. (If a mere wall socket changes the response then said equipment must surely be able to pick up even finer details in the music than most)

It is a difference of philosophy.

Stanwal, if you knew me better you would understand that:

1. I haven't learned how to hear what doesn't exist, and
2. I always have an opinion

Cheers,

Coming up on 50 years in audio, I wish I had written down every time an engineer, usually not one in audio, has explained how some effect could not possibly exist. I am sure a chemist could prove by analysis that there is no significant difference between wines and those who claim the opposite are fooling themselves. As for me I agree with Ivor Tifenbrun that " If you haven't heard it you don't have an opinion".

Or pig snot!!!!

It sounds better for the same reason that your car drives better after you wash it, for the same reason you're more likely to buy a house if you smell bread being baked in it, and for the same reason your impression of someone is dramatically different depending on whether you happen to have a cold beverage or a hot one in your hand when you meet them. I'm assuming, of course, that the old wall socket will not have been made of a pig snout.

Br,
As far as hypnosis goes, it easier acts on the crowd of people; that's why if you're just beginning to master this art, you should work with groups in order to find one that would fall under your convincing commands...
Who do you think will fall under hypnosis first??

Those, who mastered this art properly, can even convince convinced not to listen to you or read what you're saying i.e. to decline truth.

Br,
As far as hypnosis goes, it easier acts on the crowd of people; that's why if you're just beginning to master this art, you should work with groups in order to find one that would fall under your convincing commands...
Who do you think will fall under hypnosis first??

Those, who mastered this art properly, can even convince convinced not to listen to you or read what you're saying i.e. to decline truth.

This thread is a hoot. I mean no disrespect to anyone who has previously posted and has found audio nirvana by simply changing out an electrical outlet. But with 30+ years in the business of designing and building computer datacenters, and dealing with a myriad of power issues on a daily basis, I must post the following short reminders:

1. I'm sure that most of you guys understand that NONE of your gear actually runs on AC power - that the job of component's power suply is to convert AC to DC. Having said that, have any of you ever measured the AC in vs. the DC out? If you have, have any of you seen a measurable difference in the DC out after making of the above recommended changes? If yes, you have a defective power supply.

2. Hospital grade outlets - I'm also sure that you guys who are using them understand that so called "Hospital Grade Outlets" are designed for safety purposes, and have nothing to do with quality of power delivered. In fact, there are thousands of Mil-Spec power connector types that are much more efficient at providing a stable, cold current connection than the NEMA 5-15 plug. Unless your existing electrical outlet is very old (25+ years), you will probably see the same improvement by simply cleaning the outlet with Deoxit and adjustng the receptacle contact gap (shut off the circuit first or unwire the receptacle first, please).

3. Household wiring - yes, I would imagine that you would see an improvement by rewiring or running a dedicated line, under some circumstances. In general, there is no reason why average audio gear requires a "dedicated" circuit, unless (for example):
a. You have an old electric clothes dryer or other "noisy" appliance on the same circuit (eve then, it might be cheaper and easier to simply replace the appliance).
b. You have aluminum wiring - 'nuff said.
c. You have an outdoor exposed breaker panel or fuse box and live near the ocean. It is probrably better in that case to relocate the panel indoors and keep your contacts clean.

Gee, this is almost fun. Can we talk about ultra premium ($$$) power cords next?

I respect your opinion regarding the “Placebo effect”, but I don’t think so. I don’t want to start an argument however for the record, (in my opinion), in blind tests that I ran with several other audiophiles, a difference could be heard using some exotic or more expensive outlets other than hospital grade. To take it a step farther, as long as the outlets were not gold, having them cryogenically treated enhanced the outlets even more after initial break-in.

Going to hardware store and getting new outlets (spend a few bucks on the better grade) should provide a tighter connection and possibly better performance to almost any system. But getting anything more exotic or expensive than hospital grade? Placebo effect. Spend your money on music.

I noticed a great improvement from porter ports, much like a power cord or interconnect upgrade

I have noticed meaningful differences as well. Can those who used Furutech, vs Oyaide vs others comment on the character of the differences? I have used standard, Porter pots, sound application, and the new synergistic tesla and find them all to be quite different. I have used the sound application primarily for the past 2 years.

A few other things that can have an affect ; microwave ovens , HVAC units , some remote controls , flourecent lights and small appliances .

Good luck.

Speaking of dryers and improvements made, there are other appliances in your home that will definitely affect the deliver of electricity in your home. Generally anything that has a big draw on it will do this. Most notable the washer, since that barrel full of water needs some good torque to be moved back and forth, and your fridge.

I actually used to see the neon light in the wash room throb as the washer was working. I put an Audio Prism Quiet Line filter on the washer outlet and it decreased very noticeably. So I put another on the fridge outlet. Overall a very small investment that works quite well, though not perfect.

Enjoy,
Bob

tried both furu ftd20a and the oyaide r1. both very good and a definite improvement over my former psaudio power port. ended up using r1 - more synergistic with my system, but you can't go wrong with either.