Inna, I agree. But I never buy for full retail. 20% off at least. As I said above I have been offered great deal that is not easy to pass. It’s still risky, but the dealer that I know for quite some time has both in his showroom and swears that gryphon in a different league. He is saying that to his ears it’s even better (more musically involving) than Vitus SIA-025. I heard that model of Vitus and it is terrific integrated.
Upgrading form Pass integrated amplifier to a better one
Hello,
Currently I have a PASS INT-250 integrated amplifier . The Pass INT-250 is a very good integrated (in my system it was overall better than Plinius Hiato, Gamut D150se, Mark Levinson 535, Vitus RI-100, Accuphase E-470 and some others) but I can't get rid of the feeling that I miss some explosiveness (drum kicks for example) and micro details.
I know that its not the speakers. The new Sonus faber tradition I have are much more open, dynamic and airy than previous Guarneri Evos, Elipasas SE and Amati Anniversarious I used to own. And before buying them I auditioned the Serafinos with Audio Research separates and it was the amazing combo. But I really prefer not to go the separates road ( ICs, power cords and space contribute to financial constrains also) and even so I like the combo of Pass and Serafinos overall but from time to time looking for some better integrated on the market.
Currently I presented with a good opportunity to buy latest Gryphon Diablo 300 integrated or latest just released Accuphase E-650. No possiblilty to demo them, so I am asking here on the forum if anybody can comment if Gryphon Diablo 300 or Accuphase E-650 will be better integrated than Pass INT250 overall and especially in terms of dynamics, micro details and harmonics.
Any advise and opinion would be very appreciated.
My system: Esoteric K-05x, Pass INT-250, Sonus Faber Serafinos, all cabling are the Shunyata Sigmas.
Room is 12" wide by 17" long. Listen mostly acoustic jazz and chamber classical on low to moderate levels.
Thank you.
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Spending $16k on an amp without auditioning it and having no idea how exactly it would sound in your system and whether or not you would like it? Think about it, it's nonsense. Gryphon Diablo will easily drive your speakers and most other speakers. So what ? You might not like what you hear just as you don't quite like the Pass. |
Greginnh, so you are saying that E-600 is more refined than E-470?, what else, more 3d, more texture, micro details, how its bass? I never buy retail and currently have a pretty good deal on coming E-650 since its supposed to be better according to a specs. But again no possibility to audition. Thanks again. |
denon1 - IMO - yes. I owned the E-470 and it was good but not great. It had plenty of power but lacked some finesse that only Class A can impart. You are correct, the Accuphase is grossly overpriced due to importer’s ridiculous mark up. I never pay retail for any of my gear anyway. You can always get a heftty discount off retail on Accuphase. Where are you located? |
I own an Accuphase E-600 and I am always questioning myself in terms of what would be the next step up. The new E-650 will be an improvement over my model. The first one is slated for delivery in December and will be available to hear in MA at Legend AV. I am considering tubes and have found that speaker cables can play more than a minor part in equipment synergy. I have come to the conclusion the amp selection/evaluation is only one part and that in many cases, other speaker cables must be evaluated as part of that process. I know that’s not what you wanted to hear but the issue is a real one, at least based on my experience. I have auditioned or owned all the pieces you have tried other than the Viva Solista (which is something I would like to try). As for other brands, you might try contacting Philip O’Hanlon at On A Higher Note (US importer of Gryphon) to see if he can facilitate an in-home trial. Keep me posted as I am also on the "upgrade" path! |
There are two products from T+A of Germany that might fill the bill nicely. The first is a $11k integrated amplifier from the R series. Musicfx bought one of these and he had compared the T+A to a comparably priced Pass labs integrated and he ultimately purchased the T+A over the Pass Labs and another integrated amplifier he was also auditioning. The R series use much of the technology of the more expensive HV series but uses a superb switch mode power supply to lower the cost. The PA 2500r was amazing sounding when we had one on display it has a very purcuasive and rhtymic quality coupled with a huge soundstage. http://www.ta-hifi.de/wp-content/uploads/the_absolute_sound_PA2500R_MP2000RMK2_September2017.pdf T+A is the largest electronics manufactuer in Germany and they have the resources and raw engineering talent to create some very interetesing and very high performing gear. The more expensive HV series integrated was compared to $120k worth of Ch Precision gear, in TAS and the reviewer Allan Taffel was having a hard time telling the difference, so the $18k PA 3000 HV integrated is one fantastic ampliifer. The HV concept which T+A created runs solid state devices at very high rail voltages the same as tube products and the incresed voltage enbles the transistors to become more linear amplification devices reducing distortion and creating a very tube like midrange. The T+A stuff is very powerful, with a huge sound stage, excellent transparency, but without being sterile, and the bass is very punchy build quality is fantastic, is the the styling and feature set. The latest T+A integraed the HV 3100 which is an improved version of the original less expensive PA 3000 integrated was compared with a $45,000 Dagasitno and the less expensive Vitus. The reviewer found the 3100 to combine the best of both of those companies products and the $22k T+A integrated was considered to sound as good as the twice the price D'agasitno Momentum product. https://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/ta-elektroakustik-3100-hv-pdp-3000-hv-sacdcd-... So if you are looking at a destination level integrated this is one company I would look at strongly. Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ |
Jafant Lak, thank you, I will. Not an easy decision. The pass INT-250 is very good. May be anybody will be interested in my experience with the integrated..So far in my system, I had these integrated (mostly playing with Sonus Faber or Vienna Acoustics models): 1. Plinius Hiato - great midrange and bass, highs are hot and digital noise persistent - as result lack of air and micro details. 2. Gamut D150SE - good airy sound silky highs, but lack of bass and poor build for the price. 3. Accuphase E-470. Great build. I guess prestige play part. But nothing special with the sound - overpriced in US. 4. Pass labs INT-60 - great one, 5. Mark Levinson 585 - balanced smooth sound, but I felt its not a best match with Sonus faber. 6. Viva Solista - very good 845 tube based amp. To my surprise has been a good match with Sonus faber Anniversarios. The tube swapping so drove my crazy and it obviously ran hot. On a higher volumes did not have enough power to get SF sing. But with efficient speakers will be outstanding. 7. Pass labs INT-250 bested all the above. Power, musicality, good details. But I know that my new Sonus faber Serafinos can exhibit even better sound - with more flash out micro details and dynamics. So my only choice that I like to explore is Gryphon Diablo 300. Even so I appreciate it, please don't offer your opinion on anything else, since I am only interested in Gryphon. Lack of availability to demo, makes me to ask assistance on the forums. So again please anybody with hands on or any experience with Gryphon Diablo and its sound and reliability please chime in. Thank you. |
Denon1, what you read about Gryphon matches my impression. Both Diablo and Diablo 300 can deliver life like music in front of you with great dynamic and details. I was looking to buy a Diablo before I bought my RI100. Back out because of lack of importer/dealer at that time. I’d buy the Diablo 300 without hesitation if I were buying now. |
jjue, thanks for the comments, as usual, it is all system and taste dependent. When I had Vitus RI-100 in my system for a demo, to my ears, it had some better resolution than pass but sounded more analytical (less musical) than my Pass Int-250. Based on what I'm reading on the net, the Gryphon delivers front rows presentation with outstanding refinement and musicality. If this is the case - this is what I am after. I did not find any negative review or opinion on the forums (yet) related to the Diablo 300. The Dartzeel (new) and others in this range out of my budget completely and I'm not after used units at this level of the equipment. |
I don’t have experience with Pass INT-250. But I have auditioned both Gryphon Diablo and Diablo 300. They both share the same Gryphon house sound but the 300 is more refined and more powerful. I currently own RI100 and use it on my main system. By comaparimg my experience between Vitus and Gryphon, I doubt whether Diablo 300 will give you the improvement that you’re looking for. It will give you a different flavor of sound for sure. But not sure whether that’s what you’re looking for or not. Besides Gryphon Dianlo 300, have you considered Dartzeel CTH-8550? |
I would kindly ask don't post anything like increase a volume, check your connections or move up the pass separates. I stated clearly that my interest related only to integrated amps and now specifically to Gryphon Diablo 300 since I offered a great deal on the new unit. So if anybody owns Diablo 300 or had a chance to audition it and compare it to any pass gear, please provide your opinion. Thank you. |
I don't see anything about the Accuphase E-650. Isn't that a fairly low powered Class A integrated? Less power than the Pass? That doesn't make sense to go lower in power. I have an Accuphase A36, only 30wpc, and it's nice but resale is terrible. I can't give it away. Accuphase USA pricing is idiotic at best. You really don't have many options for a killer integrated. The Gryphon Diablo 300 makes the absolute most sense among those mentioned and with the internal dac, a true reference answer. |
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