Hello Dan,
Thanks for the information, very interesting! |
Let me finish the discussion starting at the beginning. I double checked this subject this week as we just returned from CES and we talked "face to face" with Wattgate. Here is the whole story...
(I feel as though I should start with once upon a time..hee, hee)
Ray Kimber wanted to build the best outlet. He contacted the (3) major manufactures of electrical supplies. Those being, Hubbell, Marinco and Leviton. Come to find out ... each of these manufacturers work in conjunction producing different parts for each other (tooling reasons). Leviton offered up it's top of the line hospital grade outlet to be semi converted. Thus was born the 380. It was nothing more than this outlet with the triple copper, nickel, gold plating. It performed and sold successfully for a number of years.
Mr. Kimber still was not satisfied. He then took that outlet and instructed Leviton to beef up the grounding strap and configure a "box" system to secure the ground wire. He additionally took all of the internal contacts and doubled the surface area. This also increased the contact force. He then triple plated the entire unit and this became the Wattgate 381. There is NO OTHER outlet that has this contact area and this cannot be bought in an over the counter format. ex: PS Audio's is nothing more than the Hubbell 8300 with PS stamped on it. The Acme is a silver plated/cryo'd P&S outlet. Both are great outlets, but not their own.
A couple months ago, we (us dealers) ran into a shortage for two months. Leviton needs to retool on every order by Ray Kimber. They cannot pick this outlet from the shelf and plate it. This is Mr. Kimber's outlet and he says when to build it. It says Leviton on the body, but it is NOT a standard outlet. They manufacture it to Kimber's standard.
I hope this clears up any confusion. I wish I could show you one cut in half. It is easy to see the difference.
Dan
dedicatedaudio.com |
...and how many "swipes" do you think that 24k several-micron plating is good for?! Sigh.... |
I put in a PS Audio power port and noticed no difference from the hospital orange outlet. Oh well... |
P.S. Sorry, forgot this. Page 2 and 3 of the Leviton site show a couple of the hospital grades with gold colored mounting yokes as well. Actually, that whole file is kind of interesting. |
Alexander and others: Check this out. Sorry about the pdf file on the Leviton page; it will take a little while to download. Look at page 4 of the Leviton site (specs on hosp. grade levitons)
http://www.leviton.com/pdfs/ind%20receptacles/b-616%20ind%20receptacles.pdf
Then look at:
http://www.wattgate.com/prod-381.htm
I particularly like how the Leviton and Wattgate both got an "upgraded" grounding system at the same time. Must be a coincidence. Yes, your Wattgate has gold plating on it, and I haven't heard it, so I can't really comment on its sound quality. But I can't help but think that people purchasing this receptacle are paying about $120 for that gold plating and that blue star. Maybe I'm wrong, and maybe it's worth it..... |
Hdm: My 381 has "LEVITON" stamped on the mounting yoke. From a manufacturing standpoint however, about the only thing that tells me is that the Leviton yoke tooling was used (probably to save many tens of thousands of $ in tooling expense). The metal that it stamped could easily be a different alloy and I don't recall a Leviton product with a gold plated yoke.
Tooling plastic components is also extremely expensive, but existing molds often easily work for differently compounded plastics.
A little background info from a former Manufacturing Engineer. Happy Listening! |
Clueless: I've never really done any male plug comparisons, but I have used the Hubbell 5266CCN with very good results. I cut off the molded plug on my turntable's power supply and re-terminated with this plug with excellent sonic results (cost of this plug is about $7 U.S.) and I have a couple of DIY power cords currently in use terminated with this plug as well. No experience with others, though. |
Thanks Hdm, that was an interesting summary. Do you have any general comments re sonics of various plugs?
I remain, |
Dan from Dedicated Audio: I think we've been through this before. If I was a betting man, I'd bet a lot of money that the Wattgate is indeed a re-badged receptacle. Take a close look at the Wattgate info, then go to the Leviton site and take a close look at the info on the Leviton 8300. The Wattgate has gold plating and a face that says "audio grade"; other than that the literature and claims for both receptacles are virtually identical, including Levitons claims of recently upgrading the ground, etc. Coincidence? I don't think so. I believe, if I'm not incorrect that someone here has also posted that their Wattgate (perhaps an older model) actually has "Leviton" stamped on it.
My take on this, after much experimentation, is this. The stock spec grade Levitons and isolated ground Levitons I have experience with are nothing special. The PS Audio is a Hubbell 8300 with supposedly 15 layers of extra nickel plating (the extra layers may even be detrimental to sound), the Acme is a Pass and Seymour 5242 (which in stock for is ok, but not, in my opinion anywhere close to the performance of the stock Hubbell 8200/8300) with silver plating. The Jena labs is a cryoed Hubbell 5362, selling for over $100, which you can purchase from Audioexcellence for $55 (or a cryoed 8300 for $60) with a very good cryo treatment followed by a cook on a cable cooker before shipment. The Audioexcellence/World Power outlets are exceptional, and great value, in my opinion of course. |
well , they should have hubble make the outlet for them. Out of 200 powerports I have, all of them are perfect.
the 4, 381's I have are mis-aligned, go figure... |
Dan, Thanks for reading the posts and offering information that is helpful. |
Dear Chichiuno,
As a dealer of the Wattgate 381... let me answer a few of your questions regarding the 381 vs the PS outlet and hopefully help you with your concerns. This is only informational, and not intended to disregard your problems or the PS as a fine product...
Generally, the contact grips are in alignment on the 381 in the static condition. I have checked all of our stock and all are in alignment. Should you feel they are misaligned, contact your dealer to correct the issue. Should they be a bit out of alignment, once the plug blade is inserted, the spring loaded triple wipes have no choice but to align. Otherwise the blade could not be inserted. Wattgate is a fantastic company to deal with and I am sure they will correct any problems or issues you may have. Contact them with any concerns. They will help.
Take into account the oversized contact wipes on the 381 are a triple-wipe contact (they contact the top, bottom and side of the plug blade)design. The wipes, as every metal part on the 381, are of OFC Copper, followed by Nickel, and a final plating of 24K GOLD. No one else can match this expensive, effective process. The OFC copper is to improve conductivity, the Electroless Nickel plating prevents leaching, and the 24k GOLD improves conductivity and prevents corrosion. This multiple process is one half of the cost difference.
The second half of the cost difference is RAY KIMBER(Wattgate)and company. They set a design standard and came up with the Wattgate 381. It is NOT an over-the-counter outlet with Wattgate stamped to it's faceplate. It is a WATTGATE 381. The PS is simply the fine Hubbell 8300 outlet. There is a big difference in cost per unit between the two.
The final question should be... which performs best for you, not only now, but in years to come? The Wattgate is a great product!
Contact Wattgate if your dealer can't help you and discuss any problems you may have. Wattgate will stand behind thier product. I'm sure they would be happy to help and offer suggestions for correction.
Hope this helps and Happy Listening!
Dan
dedicated audio |
ACMEs are silver plated Pass & Seymours, and a good buy at $35. |
I just got 4 wattgate outlets,and some plugs.. compared the wattgate outlets to ps audio power ports, and found the ps audio powerports are of a much higher quality, the contact prongs are heavly mis aligned in the the 4 wattgates i have. looking at the ps audio power ports, the contacts are truly even and aligned.
This is one main reason of buying these wall outlets is a perfect full even contact on the plug prongs. At the price of wattgate it is 3 times the price of a power port,tell me why? |
I like my Jena labs outlets, but that's my opinion- try a search on this subject or better yet get in on the Albertporter group buy on cryo treated hubbels(which is essentially what a Jena outlet is). |
Spec Grade Pass & Seymour. |
I would recommend PS Audio Power Ports and 10 gage romex. Code depending on the area you live in is typically 12 gage for 20 amp circuits and 10 gage for 30 amp circuits.
Chuck |
20 amp outlet requires a 20 amp breaker and a minimum wire size of 12 gage. Your 10 gage is larger than the required 12 gage. |
Hubbell 8300 cryogenically treated or Wattgate 381. Pull your 15 amp outlet and breaker and replace them with 20 amp. Usually #12 wire is code (for 20 amp) but many of use use #10. |
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