Unipivot vs Linear Tracking

AL, The operative word in your first sentence is "theoretically".  Yes, an SL tonearm is theoretically perfect, but it is never actually perfect, which is one reason why the SL type does not completely dominate the high end of the market. The other major reason, IMO, is the need for a pump, the problems that come with that (noise, moisture in the system, etc, etc), and the problems associated with trying to achieve elusive perfection.  But I would agree that among SL tonearms, the ET2 is clearly a winner, along with a few others.

A linear tracker is theoretically perfect at tracking whereas with a pivoted arm that is impossible. That ends the whole debate. Whether or not one can hear the minute tracking errors is a whole different debate.  
And it's tiresome reading all the miss information about linear's or more specifically the ET2. It has great bass when set up properly with a proper air supply and it does not require constant fiddling. 

I only been using a linear tracking arm for a few months before then I had a silver wired SME 4 and to be honest the Terminator is just in a different class in every department. It has no hiss coming through the carrier
I am now totally convinced that this is the way to go to get the best out of your turntable

Alun, the problem with many air bearing tonearms is that the lateral tracking mass is much greater than the relatively normal vertical tracking mass.

This causes the cantilever of many cartridges to 'walk' back and forth as it produces all the forces needed to move the excessive mass of the arm toward the center of the LP as it spins. The result is that often the tracking error caused by the cantilever bending is much more pronounced that that of a radial tracking arm. This can be reduced by using a cartridge that has less compliance but you run into troubles with the effective mass vs the mechanical arm resonance (which is usually between 7Hz - 12Hz for best results).

A linear tracking arm that relies on a servo to move the rear tone arm will have a much lower tracking error and no need for a low-compliance cartridge. The Rabco was one of the few arms to use a system like that, but otherwise was a terrible arm. The 1960s for the most part was not a good time for tone arm designs :)

I've used an ET2 now for 11 years. In many ways it can still offer state of the art sound, and relatively inexpensively for those looking. I'm certain it has it's flaws, but I know I've mentioned elsewhere on these forums that I just can't be beat for groove distortion, especially towards the end of an lp where grooves are tighter.
I like the look of the "Conductor" tonearm and hope it does well. It seems to offer a reasonable alternative to the big boys of pivoted design.
On some comments regarding tracking error made above, I wonder if those who can't hear .8 of a degree of error can hear the differences in cables????

BTW, that Cartridge Man Conductor LT looks to be
beautifully engineered, must sound great.

Incidentally, I have thought about using an LT with the Scheu Premier. Any recommendations? Naturally, I would have to make separate base, can this work?. LT arms to consider, Air Tangent, ET 2, Clearaudio and Airtech MG-1.

Quote from
Cjfrbw

I spent some time playing with one of John Elison's spreadsheets from vinyl asylum, plugging in values for tracking error for pivoted arms. I find it difficult to believe that a properly set up pivoted arm, even a 9 inch arm, has enough error to significantly "hear" the tracking error unless the arm is not set up correctly. I tend to think the audiophile imagination "knows" there is some tracking error and runs rampant to fill in the blanks to believe that 12 inch arm and linear trackers are audibly superior "because" of the geometry advantages. If somebody states they can "hear" the superior qualities of a linear tracker vs. a properly set up pivoted arm, I would be very skeptical.

Spl,

I bet the Classic is killer with the Premier, it seems T. Scheu really knew what he was doing. The Tacco is superb once dialed in, but also a bear to fine tune.

Quite a hobby we've picked....

Darkmoebius, I must admit the Scheu Classic arm was a lot of work to setup and it sounds wonderful on the Scheu Premier. For now I can sit back and enjoy the music with no fuss to tweaking the arm until I decide to change cartridge. Which incidentally I did right after getting table. I swapped out a Scheu/Benz for a Clearaudio Sigma and the results are fine indeed.

Another, point a friend made who is an ex-Stereophile writer, is that arms such as the ET 2 need constant care in all parameters to maintain good accurate playback. I have heard this arm and it sounded great, but this was many years ago. Since then I have heard so many arms it makes my head spin. Regardless, this forum is very informative to a sophomore such as myself.

Here's a link to TransFiAudio's eBay page.

But, we should also mention the AirTech MG-1 air bearing arm that got some attention around hear a couple of years ago. The price is still around $600. If you do a search here in the Analog section, they quite a few members who bought one.

Just in case anyone is looking to explore the viability(and affordability)of a nice LTT arm,I found a very reasonably priced design by searching around the web....

There is a link on Arthur Salvatore's site,but it can be found at..TransFiAudio@aol.com

The arm is called "The Terminator",and there is a nice review(one I read awhile ago,which caused my own curiousity and interest).

The reviewer kinda goes "bananas"(a good thing)over the arm,and loves it...

The price looks to be quite low,for a "supposedly good" Linear Tracking Arm...it's 470 British Pounds,plus 15 British Pounds for shipping.The user(if located in the U.S.)is supposed to buy the air pump though.A decent pump should be quite inexpensive,if I correctly understand the information given.

Please understand I am ONLY trying to give some information about LTT arms that won't break the bank(for those interested parties)in price,and it is ONLY hobby talk!!

Personally I am not about to abandon my unipivot,but certainly do appreciate the alternative sonic benefits that the LTT's can offer.....I envy those(like T.H.)who can run multiple arms/cartridges....Something I never used to even think about,but do now.....Lucky dogs -:)

Good luck

I've had a THK slide sitting around for a while. Its low sticktion and lack of slop makes it an ideal candidate for a proper TL arm. Its also an ideal size.

I think it's impossible to separate the turntable from the arm, particularly when some of the best turntables (Kuzma Stabi, Rockport, Walker, Versa Dynamics) all come with linear arm fitted during assembly and there is typically no way to fit a pivot arm on one of these to make a comparison.

A clarification. That may be true of Rockport, Walker, and Versa Dynamics but is not true of the Kuzma Stabi XL and Stabi Reference turntables, which may be fitted with the Airline, 4Point, Stogi Reference, etc. as well as third party arms, and the XL can accommodate as many arms as desired and practical.

Dealer disclaimer.

08-01-08: Atmasphere
THK has a patented linear motion slide that is the perfect size for a linear tracker, has low sticktion and guaranteed no bearing slop. All one would have to do is put gimbled bearing and an arm tube, and...

Last year, I spent a lot of time researching the new air bearing materials like the micro-porous blocks used in precision automated linear slides. Never could get around the noise effect of high-pressure air in a quiet listening room. Low pressure system have their own drawbacks.

These precision roller slides by THK look really nice. I wonder what their lateral friction or resistance is like? Seems to me that their servo actuator systems would have to be highly precise and smooth in order to be used in precision optics grinding and semiconductor fabrication.

Oh, and back to SPL's original question:

1. Do you consider linear Tracking superior to Unipivot?
2. Which would you say is harder to set up properly?

As a novice vinyl fan, I found my Cartridge Man Conductor linear air bearing tonearm to be easier to setup and fine tune than my Scheu Tacco sapphire unipivot.

THK has a patented linear motion slide that is the perfect size for a linear tracker, has low sticktion and guaranteed no bearing slop. All one would have to do is put gimbled bearing and an arm tube, and...

I've stayed in the amp side of the business for a reason :)

loved the "Versa" It sounded very good, but it almost never got through an LP without sticking, or something like that.

Humidity in the air would condense due to the high pressure in the Gast aircraft compressor used in the Versa pump. When this humidity filled the air lines it clogged the bearing and sometimes (literally) even dripped condensation (water drops) onto the LP from the air bearing surface. Obviously this is when it would stick.

The Air Tangent did not have this problem, nor did the Walker. Lots of factors go into each of these designs and even though I can still "hear" each one in my head, there are good and bad about each.

The physics regarding some weaknesses of linear design is plausible,but "man" do some of these things sound good!!!

Btw,I had a friend who owned,and loved,the "Versa".It sounded very good,but it almost never got through an LP without sticking,or something like that.So,I definitely buy into Atmosphere's comments.....as usual.

Best.

There are extremely high tolerance, precision, liner bearings(air and otherwise) & linear motion slides used in optics & robotics/automation in semiconductor equipment, fiberoptics, photonics industries that would seem to be a perfect match for TT use.

As to whether they have been shrunk to a usable size or cost is another thing.

Like Albert, I've been through a few arms too. I like the *idea* of LT, and have had a few. But- I found myself preferring a uni-pivot (the Graham) and ultimately the Triplanar over that.

I still want to see an LT happen though. My feeling is that the air-bearing approach is fundamentally flawed, as the lateral tracking mass is several times higher than the vertical tracking mass (which is about the same as a radial tracking arm). You need a *really* low compliance cartridge to make that work, otherwise you get tracking distortion as the cantilever sweeps back and forth.

In addition, the more pressure you put in the bearing the better it sounds. Here is a fundamental rule about LP playback:

There can be no bearing slop between the platter spindle and the cartridge cantilever. The coupling between these parts must be absolute! (BTW, any of you that ride motorcycles will recognize this rule, it is the same one that says there will be no slop between the handlebars and the rear wheel, if you want the bike to handle safely).

Air bearings break this rule, as a result, you can always get them to sound *better* but you can never get them to actually work completely right- and so they can be shown up by a radial tracking arm, which simply should not be.

There is a solution. There are motion devices that have zero slop in their bearings. Some are small enough to be used easily in a tone arm, solving the Rabco track issue. One problem that the old Rabcos had was excessive slop in the track and there was nothing you could do about it (in addition there were a host of other problems- I had one of these for years and solved some of them, but some were fundamental to the design and could not be solved).

The kind of arm I am talking about currently does not exist. But- if you used one of these tracks and installed a modern arm tube/bearing system on it, and then an updated electro-mechanical means of arm advancement along the lines that Rabco made, you could make something that would work really well. I've been thinking about this ever since I got rid of my Rabco 20+ years ago... :)

Until then I'm using a radial tracking arm and its awesome. It is so nice to put on a record and not fear any tracking issue, any dynamic range; just have the music emerge (and buy more records) :)

Raul, "Sounds great"(great sound) is something I haven't heard for a LONG time!...

If I'd had a simple answer to a basic question(from a clueless dealer),or a piece of info in the instruction sheets of a "new" product I got,I'd have had NO problems at all!!....

Of course the "issue" cause failure in other components,that I was able to turn into an upgrade,but the wife is "peeved",and thinks I ought to send the bill to the mfgr!

Of course this isn't something I'd do,yet ya just don't want to get the little woman too pissed off -:)

Best...enjoy your(and all others)music.

Dear Sirspeedy: Sounds great! ( 1 ).

regards and enjoy the music.
raul.

Raul,this is the "ONE" time(in almost ten months) that your "Enjoy The Music" signature expression may apply to me!

I "MAY" finally be close to getting my system operational again.Awaiting the updated pre/phonostage,and "another" new Phantom series II....

If you don't hear from me for awhile it will mean one of two things..

1- I am able to listen again,and am having fun voicing the st-up!

2- I am still having system problems,and have decided to shoot myself(or a particular mfgr,and dealer, both who'll remain nameless...."for the time being") -:)

Enjoy "your" music!

Dear Sirspeedy: Clear like water!!!

Regards and enjoy the music.
raul.

I think linear tracking is theoretically superior. However, it seems plain that, for whatever reasons, pivoting tomearm designs have more thoroughly exploited their inherent potential than their linear tracking counterparts so far have. It is entirely possible that some company could develop a $300 LTT that would make all of us forget about pivots.
But it's going to have to be funded by massive grant money as a senior thesis at Caltech or, more likely, some school in the third world. The probable market size for such a product is not going to inspire the venture capitalists.
In any case, it hasn't happened yet, and pivot still rules the roost among off-the-shelf offerings.

Raul,who said there has to be any winner here?....You're reading too deeply into my comments,especially in lieu of my previous explanation of why I am enthused about "so much" of the componentry,and different approaches in the hobby.

Also,it is completely valid for me to appreciate the performance of "any" component in a friend's set-up,since I've heard it as much as my own system,and have had enough opportunities to compare to others.

BTW,I am not trying to compare any LTT arm with any pivot(I "DO" own a pivot,as you know).Where did you come to that conclusion?

All I am doing is giving my impressions about a particular LTT arm.Set up a specific way,which gave a contrary performance to well respected,likeable hobbyist's experience....I'm not trying to be argumentative at all(learned my lesson a long time ago) -:)

One of the "original" questions asks if LTT is superior to a unipivot?Being that I have owned and liked a few unipivots,and having a load of exposure to the AT/LTT(as set up in a system I knew well)I am offering an opinion that is contrary to Albert's...

My intent was to draw a similarity to other well known,but not always appreciated components,that some hobbyists "were" able to get "more" from.Like it's NOt possible?

No intent to denigrate anyone!!!!!I LOVE reading everyone's opinions,and personal experiences.

Just my own answer to "one" of the two original questions.Just my opinion,that...."I consider LTT superior"!

Btw,I can "easily" see how this can seem a bit defensive,on my part,so I'll just shut up and take my lumps should any come my way -:)

Best.

Dear Sirspeedy: I respect your point of view but IMHO it is almost ridiculous try to compare the LT arm of your two friends ( the only ones in the world ) against stock pivots and stock other LT, specially with out having it in your own system.

+++++ " at the top of the food chain a pivoting arm and linear tracking arm are both great choices. There are many more great pivoting arm choices. If you get the right linear tracking arm and it's optimized for your turntable; it is very easy to live with. " +++++

IMHO there is no winner here.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

One thing I love about the approach of "so" many hobbyists,on this forum and from personal associations,is the desire to try and "push the envelope".

There are loads of amazing system approaches,and they all interest me.I'm not about to favor any one system approach as the best,mainly because I've heard alot of really good different set-ups.

So,this business of the "older tables" making a comeback,along with some pretty basic arms could be quite valid.It's fun too see how enthusiastic some guys are,and how far they are willing to go,to dig out the best from a viable component.

In the case of the Air Tangent Arm,my exposure tells a different story than yours, Albert.Yet,I totally "know for sure" you know what you are doing,and have been at the hobby for a long time.

I feel you've known abouy my enthusiasm for this arm from past posts,just as you've mentioned, in times before this one, that you were unhappy with the bass from the arm.

I got it!

My point being,that as it is understandable,and viable,to take the older tables(like the Garrard etc)and try to get the most out of them(some folks re-wire/re-work an older "classic" pivot arm too),many have passed them by as well.Many speaker designs are also seeing a comeback,with new approaches to componentry.

As in the case of the Air Tangent,I had two friends owning the arm.I was much friendlier with Sid,who collaborated with friend B.
They were not so inclined to move past the initial loss of bass quality(not an accusation,btw)which was definitely there,in the stock arm!I'm sure you tried the options available to you.

As I've mentioned in past posts,about the arm(because I loved what it was ultimately able to allow a cartridge to retreive)BOTH Sid and friend B went to the extent of finding a significantly different pump.They scoped out "quite a few" before coming up with the final one.What can I say?It worked.Too many folks were as amazed as me!It does happen,from time to time!

This was expensive,and took up rediculous amounts of room.Not to mention the noise(it had to be in a different room,and in between two pillows,in a closet).You really had to laugh(in a good way)upon seeing this commitment(not unlike the things you currently do,which I love,btw).

Far more air pressure,and there were most likely other little tid bits,I was not privy to.These guys are as serious as you!

This was a "profound" improvement in bass and overall performance.It is "this" change(mostly) that made that arm as fabulous as the many folks who've heard it felt(some you probably know).It was consistantly confirmed that it was in another league,now.

I had always been bowled over by the organic quality of the LP reproduction,especially in the bass.

I like to bloviate about this(sorry),because I simply loved the system with it in use....but sadly it is gone.I don't think I am crazy....maybe a little -:)

Don't get me wrong.I'm not denying your impressions,but just as you go to the lengths to rework a crossover(it must be superb),others are willing to take some components to the max,as well.

In the case of the A/T I heard it too many times,in a very high res/full freq set-up to think I was dreaming -:)

THAT's one of the things that is so much fun about the hobby...you just never know for sure .....

What "Riply" stated would apply here.

Best

Regarding Mike Lavigne from 7-27-08

i have recently purchased three additional turntables, a Technics SP-10 Mk2, an SP-10 Mk3 and a Garrard 301.

Me too, sort of. I bought the Technics SP10 MK2 about 2 years ago and the Technics MK3 this month. I don't have to wait to decide what these table do, this quote from Macrojack says it all:

Technics applied more money, expertise and R&D muscle to the development of the SP-10 series than all modern turntable manufacturers combined will acces during their lifetimes. You have to remember that this was the mighty Matsushita corporation at the peak of their high end audio venture. The SP-10 was subsidized by the sale of millions of mass market turntables. No one will ever sell turntables in those numbers again.

I've owned the Versa Dynamics with linear track arm, the Air Tangent Linear track arm, two Rabco arms, the Walker Black Diamond linear track table and arm and also the Triplanar, Graham (three of them) the SME 3009, 3012, 312S and countless others.

My conclusion agrees with these statement
(1) Mike Lavigne

at the top of the food chain a pivoting arm and linear tracking arm are both great choices. There are many more great pivoting arm choices. If you get the right linear tracking arm and it's optimized for your turntable; it is very easy to live with. But that's not cheap and there are not many choices.

I think it's impossible to separate the turntable from the arm, particularly when some of the best turntables (Kuzma Stabi, Rockport, Walker, Versa Dynamics) all come with linear arm fitted during assembly and there is typically no way to fit a pivot arm on one of these to make a comparison.

I did make multiple comparisons with a Basis Debut Gold MK4 and MK5 with a Triplanar, two Graham arms and an Air Tangent 10B. All sounded different and in the end I abandoned the Air Tangent due to lack of a solid connection with the music, especially in the bass.

I am up in the air right now with turntable tests. I can hardly wait for Mike Lavigne to get his new (old) tables up and running and report on what he hears.

James
With the Conductor, air pressure is not critical as much as volume of air flow since it is a low pressure design. There is some low level "hiss" from the air escaping the air beam, which is not audible from the listening position. Cleaning of the air beam should be using alcohol swipes, and avoid the small holes on the beam. There's also a dust filter on the air pump, which is a simple to maintain.

For high pressure designs - Air Tangent, Walker, Kuzma, ET, etc. the pressure, moisture/oil removal and the smoothing tanks are critical. I've only seen the Walker close up, and his latest design takes care of all these parameters for relatively trouble-free playback.

As to how pressure impacts on bass - my gut feeling is that this is rather a relationship between the air's mass and design, and the system's (tonearm/cart) resonant frequency, rather than the pressure. The LTTs I've heard have not lacked bass at all, in fact I think they reproduce bass more "accurately" since theoretically there's no bearing chatter. You'll be surprised how similar the Schroeder and Conductor sound, both carbon fibre arm tubes.

Dear Thomasheisig: Thank you and one more question: that very close relantionship between a quality TT and LTT can/could show with any cartridge ( I mean the ones you own. )?

regards and enjoy the music.
raul.

Hello Raul, well I think, to the inherent quality of the turntable itself. The LT has - normally - are very wide soundstage and is very silent between the notes. This can be limited from the TT itself (from the construction, there are limitations in the music flow), probably these old Micro Seikis are better in that than most of todays designs.

There just happens to be a NEW series II Graham Phantom out,as of now!....Supposedly some "serious" mods have been made to it!

If I'm lucky,I'll have it in about a week or two.Along with a newly modded pre/phonostage(new V-teflon caps and a new figamajig P/S....power factor correction circuitry)....

Maybe I'll feel differently about my previous experiences with my pal's wonderful LTT set-up.Of course I'd be shocked if I could match what I've heard in the past,but I'm confident I'll have a pretty acceptable level of performance.

Only problem is the 400 hour break-in of the new phonostage caps.I'm not one to leave something on continuously to break it in.

So,acording to the jabs I've been getting from my friends,I should have some meaningful feedback by Thanks Giving -:)

At least I'll be able to play LP's again.Something ALL of "you" guys have been able to do,that I could NOT for WAY too long!....

Hence,my angst!

I own the Scheu Premier mkII(80mm platter) along with the top of the line 9" Scheu Tacco unipivot AND the Cartridge Man Conductor linear tracking, air bearing, tonearm(HiFi Plus review). Both cost ~$3,000 US.

Unfortunately, I do not have the Premier with dual armboards(nor two of each cartridge), so it is impossible to A/B comparisons. Nor am I anything close to an expert at setup, so I have no idea if I have ever heard an optimal cart/arm matching in my system.

Which sounds better on the Scheu?

I really don't know. The amount of time between setups is so great, I would be lying if I even tried to venture a guess. I can say both knock my socks off when mounted and properly dialed in. So much so, that in the last year and a half, I haven't been able to get up the guts to sell either off.

Both have the advantages and disadvantages. Aesthetics go to the Tacco. Ease of use/setup goes to the Conductor.

Primary dowsides: As with all LT's, pump noise and air hiss is an issue to deal with, especially if your turntable is close to the listening position.

The Unipivot always causes stress/fear when cueing an expensive cart. Nothing like seeing it do it's version of a drunken jackhammer.

Cmk thank you for illuminating me to the audible difference between a LTT and a pivot arm.

I've been told that for an air bearing LTT arm, the air pressure has a relationship to the quality of the low end (bass) delivery.

Dear Thomasheisig: +++++ " A linear Tracker is in my opinion very sensitive to the quality of the Turntable " +++++

to the inherent quality of the turntable it self or to the " TT arm board ( TT suspension and vibrations disippation. )?

regards and enjoy the music.
raul.

Wow! How could I miss this thread?

On LTT and Unipivots: my personal experience is the LTT has the advantage and it is audibly superior to pivoted arms in general.

The most obvious difference is the soundstage. LTT throw a huge and wide 3D stage extending both laterally and depthwise. The pivoted arm on the other hand, has a soundstage which is somewhat "curtailed/curved" at the back.

The 2nd difference is in the dreaded end-of-side distortion, which though some good pivoted designs are able to reduce significantly, they cannot completely be rid of some mistracking. The soundstage may sound a little smaller or confused with pivoted designs, but this does not happen with an LTT.

The issue with LTT is associated with the pump. I run mine 24/7 outside the listening room so as to not interfere with the music. It is audible, especially if your system is quiet. Setup of LTT will depend on the design of the arm. Once the armbase is set, lining up a cart on a LTT is much easier than a pivoted - its either ON or OFF.

As to whether it is worth going for a LTT, if your budget fits, absolutely. That is not to say that the good pivoted tonearms don't sound good, they do and I could live with my Schroeder even if I didn't have the Conductor.

Most is written about those arm, but Mikelavigne wrote something very interesting I discovered, too.
A linear Tracker is in my opinion very sensitive to the quality of the Turntable, or lets say it the other way, I think, a LT on a normal Turntable can sound good, but in a comparison to regular Arms the Listener can get the impression "so what?", same comparison on a top turntable can push the curtain. I thought, based on it's "Air Bearing" the Turntable is not that important, but now I think different.

I did some research after posting. The cartridge man is one inexpensive LTer and then there is also another one that uses nested triangular girders. Can't tell what that one costs, but it would seem to be in the $1K range or less. If LTs at that level of cost could compete with top line pivoted arms, that would go a long way in support of any thesis that posits the inherent superiority of the design. But I don't think it would be the case.

No concern re your punction. Just curious.

The Cartridge Man is the first arm,I believe!I cannot remember the second one.Btw,I did hear the Brinkman this winter...thought it was beautifully made,and loved the sound of the system it was in.

Why the concern regarding my punctuation?

Dear Sirspeedy, Can you recall the name of the LT arm that was used as a comparator in that review, OR can you supply a reference to the article? Sounds like there was only one well recognized top quality pivoted arm involved, the Brinkmann. The one or two reasonably priced LT arms that are now currently on the market do interest me.
And by the way, what is the significance of all the quotation marks you use around single words and phrases?

Well,first off my apologies if I seem to be attempting to convince anyone of "anything" being better than anything else....This "is" a hobby topic based forum,so I think I'm playing within it's parameters....

Raul,I am sure that though it is completely possible,and definitely probable that I have "not heard the "perfect arm/cartridge combination",I'm confident that "those" that I "have" heard were just as "viable" as any you have been exposed to -:)OK?

I'm totally happy to get off the apparent soap-box,some think I'm on,regarding the linear/air bearing subject.....anyone knowing me(from Audiogon threads)should realize that I like to "go on" about certain topical subjects....Those which appeal to my own "personal" thoughts....I DO admit to "loving" this subject.

I really don't have any vested interest in convincing "anyone" about "anything",and the subject of linear/air bearing designs came up,so you have my "opinion"....If anyone thinks it is ego driven,then I am truly sorry....'cause it is ONLY "hobbyspeak"!...ALWAYS WILL BE -- "JUST THAT".

Now,for the curious.....

A few months ago,Hi-Fi Plus ran a superb article/review comparing a few highly regarded 12 inch arms(they actually ran two seperate reviews,but I'm speaking about the latest article)....The review and "somewhat comparisons" included(from memory)the superb Brinkman 12 incher,a "way cool looking"(yet looks to be a Triplanar rip-off)Chinese Unipivot(the Tri is not a uni,but the resemblance to it is almost incriminating),another high priced pivot AND a comparison to a "very reasonably priced" air bearing/linear design("this air/LT arm was at least half the price of the pivots in the review)....

The reviewer(yeah,I know,don't believe all reviews)loved a few of the pivots,but what stood out to me,was his enthusiasm for the Linear/Air bearing "el-cheapo" design!They are not ALWAYS expensive.

His impressions(opinions)were to describe the "sonic signature" as they appear to anyone with enough exposure to the "flavor" of this type of analog instrument....Basically he loved it,and felt in the area of "lack of a resonant signature" it was magical....Not the exact words,but close enough....half the price of the other commonly preferred pivots(which are great arms,btw).

There was another online review of another very low priced air/linear tracker(I "think" it was on Enjoy the Music site),where the "exact same" enthusiasm was relayed to the reader,but "that" arm was even lower in cost than the first!I don't think it was more than around eight hundred dollars,but the owner is supposed to buy the pump,which as designed is not expensive at all(think aquarium pump pricing)....

Here we had two quite low priced LT/Air Bearing arms(they are not all priced in the Kuzma Airline range),where the enthusiasm of the particular hobbyist/reviewer was "way over the top" for the arms in question,and the comparisons to the "High Priced" pivots were eye opening....What can I say?....I'm sure there is plenty for "some" to nit-pick here.

My point is "ONLY" for those interested in persuing this type of arm(I believe the question "was" asked on this thread)....

Myself?....Well I have always been happy with my Graham arms,and have no interest in making any changes...but I can attempt to be open minded,and offer an "opinion",based on exposure....Like everyone else!

You can agree,completely disagree,or find some detail to nit-pick....

It's all fine by me! -:)

Best

If you have the time and motivation, set aside a long weekend with all the KAB 1200 modification kits and apply them to a factory fresh Technics SL1210MG5 one by one and you will be impressed at the outcome and with the changes of each along the way.

Mikelavigne and Raulruegas are the guiding lights here. Technics applied more money, expertise and R&D muscle to the development of the SP-10 series than all modern turntable manufacturers combined will acces during their lifetimes. You have to remember that this was the mighty Matsushita corporation at the peak of their high end audio venture. The SP-10 was subsidized by the sale of millions of mass market turntables. No one will ever sell turntables in those numbers again. I went from a Well-Tempered Reference table to an SP-10 MK II and it was a leap upward in terms of stability, authority and even quiet. And let me say that very few of you currently own a quieter table than that WTT.

Raul's point about set-up is also very strong because the matter of which design is optimal becomes moot unless both comparative units are optimized. While you are amazed that moving your speakers an inch makes a big difference, you must then realize that moving your stylus forward .2 mm or rotating it one degree can make as big a difference. I have a Technics EPA 100 MK II tonearm with a variable dynamic damping system built into it. This allows adjustability in damping of the arm to accommodate a wide range of cartridge compliances. I've noticed that very small changes in my damping adjustment can affect the sound of my system in significant ways. I would guess that no LTT could match the performance of this pivoting arm without a similar damping capability unless the cartridge match was absolutely perfect.

Some while ago I started a thread about the relative merits of belt drive and direct drive. It went on for quite a while and generated some pretty emotional observations and banter. Ultimately nothing was really resolved but the same result became apparent there as what we are seeing here. People seemed to agree that implementation was more important than the fundamental design approach.

Many years ago I had the first version of the ET tonearm and I could use it happily today if it was a little more user friendly and convenient. I knew less then and maybe I'm being naive in my recollections about it but I mention it because I have experience with both. I've also owned the B&O 4004 LT table and a Yamaha PX-2. I don't really have a preference. I am starting to see, however, that a lot of the best products to come along in history were provided by manufacturing giants. Led by reviewers, we have tended to overlook them in favor of home based garage creations with gimmicks , panache or political connections. This old Technics stuff is absolutely killer.

i have recently purchased three additional tunrtables, a Technics SP-10 Mk2, an SP-10 Mk3 and a Garrard 301. this is not any commentary on my Rockport; it is a matter of curiosity about all the excitment people are having with these vintage dd tt's when they install them in a modern plinth and add a state-of-the-art arm. i also want to have my other cartridges mounted and ready to play. i am currently contemplating which arms i will use; in any case each arm will be pivoted.

once they are all up an running i may not keep all three (rather the wife may not allow me to).....but i want to hear them for myself.

my agenda was not the linear tracking verses pivoted arm question; and clearly the Rockport and these other tt's will have fundamental differences.....but it should shed more light on the question of this thread too.

personally; i am much more a direct drive (or rim drive) guy than a linear tracking guy and think that properly applied it has more fundamental effect on the music than the arm approach. music fundamentaly is about timing. this comment is not to hijack this thread but more to put it in a bit of context.

Dear Sirspeedy: +++++ " With all due respect...the arm I had been exposed to(for ten years)was "absolutely" superior to anything else I have heard(including my own choice).,,.. " +++++

there could and can be several reasons why is that, one of them is that your music sound reproduction priorities are different from other people ( including me ) other could be that till today you never heard/hear the perfect pivot tonearm/cartridge combination.
Anyway what many of us have is a subjective ( estrictly personal like yours ) opinion and other people have a subjective/objective opinion ( I'm between these ones ).

Anyway IMHO I have to say again that the quality tonearm performance is a summary of many subjects where the tracking error is only one of them, sure it is important but in my whole tonearm experiences ( like I say ) it is only one more subject to take in count: the sum of the parts is the answer.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

"The spcial soundstage performance on LT is more a result of it's non mechanic grounded bearing that of the LT design".------

I'm going to assume this means what I've been ststing about the lower mechanicl friction of the air bearing design.....something that surely must be a reason for the Schroder's apparent reputation!

Yes,I am more concerned with this attribute,as opposed to a few degrees of tangency!

With all due respect...the arm I had been exposed to(for ten years)was "absolutely" superior to anything else I have heard(including my own choice).,,..

Those folks in my little audio group consistently confirmed this,and have more credability(to me)than some naysayers,who were not lucky enough to be present.

Aside from the more relaxed stage presentation,there is more air/depth/space between instruments/and tonal attributes....

I'd love to see someone owning a well set up Walker,or a Forsell chime in,and state that if they "did" move to a pivot(for whatever reason),they got the impression that the air/linear "arm"(I'm not talking about the table)was NOT missed....

If you haven't lived with one,I understand the doubts(on the argued theory)...that's too bad,because these "instruments" can be a doorway to better analog sound!

Best

Dear friends all of you: IMHO this tonearm subject is a very controversial one ( for say the least ) and very complex. Here in México we say " everyone talks like goes on the fair ".

Some way or the other I think that everyone can/could be right, IMHO there is non absolute answer to the subject only relative answers.

From pure theory ( and only on tracking error subject ) there is no doubt that a LTT is the best way to go like from theory a 12" pivot tonearm is better than the 9" one, but tracking error/distortion subject is only one of several other same importance level subjects than the tracking distortion.

Why a tonearm ( it does not matters pivot or LT ) performs better than other is the summary of several different parameters ( other that good cartridge match and set up ) that help to top quality performance or that contribute to a lower one: bearing design, bearing type, bearing tolerances, bearing material, bearing friction value, geometry design/choose, tonearm length, build material ( whole ), internal wiring, effective mass, damping type, design execution, etc, etc, etc, all these " parameters " and many others help to define the tonearm performance.

I have experience on tonearms over the years not only with pivot ones but LT too ( including the ones from Rockport/Walker ). It is true that the LT are something special ( specially on soundstage that it is not my top music priority, important but not critical. ) but the pivot ones too specially on both frequency extremes where IMHO no LT surpass them.
IMHO too there is no perfect tonearm design, pivot or LT, the best one is the one that match your trade-offs/music priorities.

In the last two years ( maybe more ) Guillermo and I were in deep whole tonearm research looking/building for a Universal tonearm ( the perfect one ) where we already made several live tests ( with our tonearm prototype designs ) to be near that almost impossible target: Universal/perfect tonearm.

We try 12",11",10",9",etc, etc and about tracking distortion I agree totally with Cjfrbw: you can't hear the differences at least differences that you could say: hey that is because lower tracking error!, no way. As imperfect is the playback analog rig as imperfect are the analog recording process and these facts preclude that the theory is on command.
. Btw, when we talk about lower traking error between a 12" tonearm against a 9-10" one we are talking of 0.8 degrees or less, with all respect to all of you : no one can hear it. The special soundstage performance on LT is more a result of its non mechanic grounded bearing that of the LT design.

IMHO it is more important a good execution design, cartridge match and good set-up that pivot vs LT subject.

Guillermo and I choose a pivot tonearm design over LT because we think ( maybe we are wrong ) that can/could be nearer to the Universal tonearm, we are really exited on the quality performance showed on our last prototype: very promised, we will see over the time to come.

Spl, don't worry about which is harder to set up properly there are many other more important subjects ( of course that a friendly set up is always desired. ) to choose your tonearm.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

Well,you are certainly entitled to your opinion!

I have not owned one of the elite pivot arms but i really like the linear arms. i am using a maplenoll table that uses an airbearing arm. took a while to learn how to use it but after that it has been pretty easy. i find the linear arms are great trackers and eliminates inner groove distortion

I am not being condescending at all. I have heard the Rockport turntable in a wonderful system locally, but there is no quality I could ascribe to it that had anything to do with the linear tracking tonearm, other than the overall superiority of the system itself.
I have heard other great systems with pivoted arms, and likewise, there is nothing I have heard positive or negative that I could ascribe to the tonearm.
A "white paper" analog system might state as a goal "perfect tangential tracking without compromise". There is no such thing.
A lot of seasoned audiophiles seem to drop out of the linear tracking game as drop into it, so it is hard to believe that they would do so if they really thought sonics were the issue.
Testimonials are great things from experienced listeners, but it doesn't mean that I or anybody else should suspend judgment based on common sense, especially when the context issue is completely ignored.