Sam: I don't know the technical name for the nuts that you are talking about, but i have called them / heard them referred to as "Castle" nuts. This may / may not be correct.
Dekay: I think that those racks are still available but Audio Advisor stopped selling them for some reason. Last time i checked, they were still available on the manufacturers website. That was quite a while ago, but it was WELL after AA stopped selling them. I checked into going the same route that you did but found something that tickled my fancy a little more.
Ernie: I think that the added weight of the marble or granite on the suspended floor would tend to muddy the bass further. I ran into a similar situation when i changed racks a while back. I went from a lightweight rack to one that weighed about 175 lbs and the bass went to mud. I now have a rack of similar design but much lighter and the bass is back to normal.
I think that varying weight in different locations on a suspended floor alters both the resonant frequency of the floor itself AND the amplitude of the signal that it contributes when excited. This is probably why some people notice drastic differences with various tweaks such as racks, different speaker stands, various isolation components, etc.. What may work phenomenally in a system with a "loose & saggy" suspended floor with very audible improvements may make no difference at all for someone with a solid foundation under their system. Just a guess though... Sean
> |
I don't currently own any nueance shelves (had some symposium shelves), but I got a good idea for cheap tweak from one of Ken's discussions. In stead of using upturned cones under shelves in audio rack (which can be expensive for 16 or more and may raise shelf too high) go to hardware plumbing section of home improvement store. There you will find nuts with round dome top, they have an italian name, just buy several large ones for @25 cents each and use in place of cones. Very stable and raise shelf height 1/2" or less.
Components can then be vibrapodded on these isolated shelves in rack. |
Ernie: I tap the Neuance shelf in the center (the component is not on it @ the time) and can tell by the tone whether the shelf is stable or not. The noise becomes very tight and short in duration when things are right. If I do not do this the overall sound is not very good in my setup as the LF's become subdued. My equipment is also on the light side (under 20 pounds) which may be why this special care is required. Maybe Ken has something to add to this, but I feel that proper support and setup is key in getting the "best" out of this shelving. |
pods work! just got'em and i'm pretty happy. deeper and tighter bass, better dynamics, slightly better resolution. nice for the price. |
Sean, Hdm, My Parsifal Encores were carefully voiced using proprietary large brass spikes for the woofer base, and then
a 1" granite slab between 8 thin corner discs of sorbothane as a sandwich between this woofer base and the upper monitor.
Makes me wonder if something like this could do the trick under your speaker: i.e., two marble or granite or maple shelves with this sorbo between?
Thanks for the experimental procedure, Hdm, but the last thing I want to do is upset the phenomenally tight and clean presentation the Encores deliver as tuned by Julian Pelchat at Verity.
Neuances do a great job isolating my CDP and pre...far better coherence than air bladders or sorbo or cones alone.
Tweaking the support for Neuance is not so critical.
Upturned cones on your shelf will do if you can't screw upturned spikes or screws through your shelf.
Screwing the four spike/screws into the shelf is satisfying at completion, however, as after getting three of the corners reasonably flat you carefully nudge the fourth crew up until the Neuance stabilizes (no jiggle) as you push on it with your hand. If it's then reasonably flat (for front ends) you're done. |
Hi Bob: I have an inexpensive (discontinued) rack that has adjustable upturned brass spikes for all of the shelves (I could not see investing in the Neaunce shelving if it was not properly supported). It was designed as a bolt together rack, but I had it mig welded, by my mechanic, into a one piece frame. He did not charge me for this service, which took just a few minutes for sixteen spot welds (I did the setup and squared the rack off on a plate of glass - he was impressed) and in this form it works very well with the Neuance product. I have not experimented with upturned cones, etc. as supports, but assume that Ken @ Neuance would be able to supply info on various alternative support systems. The "cheap" isolation devices that I mentioned are not pumice stones, but are made of HD foam with an outer coating. We were putting a nail care kit for my wife's sister in Italy and I ran across them at a beauty supply warehouse just ouside of LA (my wife said that they are what the tech's use to polish nails in parlors). When I found out that they were four for a dollar I purchased a dollop of them to play around with (they come in different colors:-). I also used them to isolate the four tranformers contained inside a TDS Passive Audiophile from the chassis with good results. Before, the four transformers were "hot" glued to the single bottom plate of the chassis (no comment) and now it sounds much better, IMO.
Drubin: I hope that they have fixed the problem as they were described as "almost" dripping before. I ordered two sets in the past year and both were fine as far as I could see. I sold one set combined with some Mapleshade cones in the charity auctions and did not receive notice of any problems, so I assume that my observations are accurate. I have tried a few "earthquake" putties in the past that have stained (and was furious), so know where you are coming from (it took a lot of elbow grease and applied chemistry to reverse the damage). I don't know if Craig (can't remember the company name) the gentleman/dealer that I purchased the Pods from follows the forums, but am certain that he could give a history on the problem and its solution as he has rep'd the company for quite some time. One thing about the cheap "beauty" foam jobs is that I don't expect them to last a year (if that) as we live in LA, do not use A/C and leave the windows open all the time. Exposed foam and rubber does not do well with the air here as even windshield wipers require replacing once a year. I am not spending any money on the system(s) right now, but might try out the #1 Pods along with the E.A.R. footers once I get back into the swing of things. I had tried to use the #2 Pods with the "light" stuff before, which was not a good match (and which was against the user instruections). I think that the E.A.R.'s also come in different support weights. I sometime recommend that people start out by trying pieces of an old mouse pad to see if their setup is geared for soft footers, but should make it clear that I think that the Vibrapods sound a whole lot better (for a small investment). They smooth things out, fatten the bass and mid bass a bit (great for many digital sources) and they are $24 a set. Not exactly SOTA, but definately not a fool's tweak (they make a night and day difference on the player that I listen to when on the computer) and when I was first starting out with digital a few years ago they stopped me from wasting money upgrading the CD player (the Pods were all that it needed to bring it up a couple of notches and keep me happy). |
My Vibrapods are all from the earlier runs and "bleed" that oily substance also. As Bob mentioned, any mild cleaner will normally remove the residue. If one was worried about such things, something like tin or aluminum foil, plastic from a sandwich or freezer bag, etc.... placed between the pod and the component should work fine.
As to HDM's comments, i'll let him know. Part of the problem is that he probably didn't get the "right" weight rating for his pods and they are "maxing / mushing out" somewhat. It probably doesn't help in the fact that he likes to play everything on that system ( music and ht ) at pretty good volume. Since his speakers are rated into the low 20 hz range, the pods are probably absorbing a good amount of "flex" from the woofer blowing right on the sheet of mdf that seperates them. The "flexing" or slight "absorbtion" of energy that the pods may be doing could be one of the reasons that his bass cleaned up somewhat too. Sean
> |
Neuance shelves are custom made for specific racks and are designed to be placed on top of upward-facing spikes. I'm sure people have found workarounds, however.
My Vibrapods are a few years old, perhaps they've fixed the residue problem. |
Neuance shelves are custom made for specific racks and are designed to be placed on top of upward-facing spikes. I'm sure people have found workarounds, however.
My Vibrapods are a few years old, perhaps they've fixed the residue problem. |
Dekay are those pummice stones? They do seem rather brittle & I doubt would hold up well under a 50 pound component, but as you say should be fine under fleaweight stuff. I had forgotten about these & should check 'em out.
How do you setup your Neuance shelves? Sounds like you just place the Nuance shelf on top of your racks' ordinary shelf & then the component on top of that using the stock feet? |
Drubin: I read about the residue problem on earlier runs of the Pods, but had thought that it was remedied. I do not experience it with the ones that I purchased a year or so ago and it should have been clearly visible on natural Maple platforms. I now use Neuance shelving for the main components (no Pods), but still like the Pods where I need to be frugal with other gear (especially in a second system). Never tried the E.A.R. footers that RedKiwi mentioned but I would still like to as I now find myself needing more Pods. I have been using a non Hi-fi product for "very" light components (Bel Cant DAC, phono preamps, TDS Passive Audiophile and HTS2000 conditioners) which are "nail buffers" used in beauty salons. They are 1" x 1" x 4" HD foam blocks which have an abrasive coating on the four longer sides. These usually sell for 25 cents each. I doubt if they would work on heavier gear, but have not yet experimented with them in this application. They do not seem to shift the tonal balance on lighter stuff, but they do clean/clear up the sound which is what I am looking/hearing for. I have always had a problem isolating light components before (don't care for the sound of mass loading) and these little blocks really do the trick. |
any household cleaning spray & paper towel seems to remove that oily Vibrapod residue effectively with no artifacts |
In my experience, Vibrapods leave a residue on whatever they are in contact with, like a shelf or a component. How are people dealing with this annoyance? |
Thanks for the inquiries.
I am still around, and doing very well. Work around the home is progressing nicely. Last week was a critical point in phase one, and turned out much better than even hoped. It did require a lot of work, moving things around, etc. My electronics were put in a closet, which was painful. They should reemerge in another week or so.
A new listening room will now house the system. After giving things time to break-in, I will evaluate an audiophile power outlet.
Then, I will go bother my friend Mike Leshner of The Stereo Trading Outlet(local dealer) for a home audition of the PS Audio Ultimate Outlet(high current version) which was raved about in the current Stereophile. Maybe I will submit a personal review of the product. I am hoping it does even a small amount of what Stereophile claims, because if that is the case, it won't be going back. I will get Mike's opinions first. He is a no BS guy, and will tell me flat out whether he thinks the product is the real thing, or just a pretender. Believe me, he thinks a lot of the stuff that comes across his path is not so hot. The fact that he carries so much used stuff allows him to bypass the loyalties a dealer representing a brand would have. He eventually has most things come through, and is fairly objective. His opinions are always interesting and welcome.
My apologies for veering off the topic of this thread, I agree that the Vibrapods are quite special, at least worth a try to most anyone who visits this site, and perhaps one of the biggest bargains in audio.
Take care everyone, Joe Trelli |
Sean: interesting on your Dad's speakers. I also have speakers with a downloaded (or is that uploaded) woofer, and have had excellent results with vibrapods (my speakers are floorstanders that weigh about 45 lbs. each). I have a suspended wood floor with a low pile berber carpet. Here's a suggestion for your Dad: have him buy two pieces of laminated or security glass (very dead and does not ring-two pieces will cost him about $40 max) slightly larger than the footprint of his speakers then go: carpet/glass/pods/speakers. I have had no twisting or leaning issues this way and the speaker will also be less raised off the floor than with his MDF sandwich. For what it's worth, I use a one number higher pod at the front corners of the speakers than I do at the back as most of the weight internally is closer to the front of the speaker.
Ernie: here's a cheap ($25) experiment for you. Play a piece of music at relatively high levels with your speakers spiked. Place your hand on the top of the speaker cabinet. Take the spikes off and put the proper pods under the speakers. Play the same piece of music at the same level/put your hand on top of the speaker cabinet. Presto: Much less vibration! You can bet your life if the cabinet is vibrating, all the drivers are too. In my setup definitely sounds better too. |
Ernie, i agree and disagree. There are folks using Pods between the woofer and mid / tweeter section on VR-4's, supposedly with very good results. I could see how isolating the two sections MIGHT offer some benefit. Then again, i would think that sorbothane would work even better. Only problem is that it is WAY more expensive.
My Father has Pods in an MDF sandwich ( carpet / mdf / pods / mdf / speaker ) and has been having better results with bass definition and lack of boom. This may be due to the fact that his speakers have a downloaded woofer though. Doing this ( somewhat ) changes the loading characteristics that the driver sees. Only problem is that i've noticed that the speakers tend to lean and / or twist after a while, probably from vibrating itself off of the center of the platform. I'm sure that this affects the imaging, etc... Need to find another way to attack this problem. Sean
> |
Vibrapods under speakers?!
C'mon...isn't the whole point to ELIMINATE speaker-movement by coupling to the room rigidly?
Last thing I want is a wiggling midrange or tweeter.
Sure, these 'pods are great to isolate electronics and maybe transports from utside vibration, so they can float independently, but that's NOT what you want your speakers to do! ...IMNSHO |
The BDR #3&4 cones with the puck. You can couple them together with all-thread nipple. Vast improvement over just the cone. I usually have three under a component with two facing the same direction. Plus they help stabilize the equipment with a larger contact area. If you can afford it a BDR board with the cones on both sides is great. I had a local carpenter/kitchen specialist sandwich 3MDF boards together and this works well under a TT. I also agree that mass loading a cd and preamp helps for vibration control. However if you overload to much the unit, it can dull the overall sound. I use multiple zip lock bags with sand to evaluate which is best. If you can find the VPI wood blocks they also make good mass loaders for amps. If not use a brick/lead shot(in a bag or tupperware) |
I always remove the original component feet so that I have more options for vibrapod placement. You should experiment with placement. I also agree that placement under speakers can lead to either improvement or degradation. I use a sheet of sorbothane to couple my speakers to their spiked stands. To me that sounds better that the vibrapods in my system. |
On MIA members - can't speak for but just one, Joe aka Trelja is just fine and is taking a long break to remodel his home and would probably would probably more enjoy listening to music with his sparce free time versus reading/posting. |
Hey, speaking of tweak freaks, yes I love those little vibrapods and keep many of each size around. I find best application is not vibrapod sandwich but direct contact of
vibrapod against component body, I never remove existing feet or use under component feet. You usually need more height clearance so go to local home improvement center and get black 4x4 bath tile to set under vibrapod to gain another 1/4" this is usually enough to clear component feet.
If component is irregular shape or very high clearance you need vibrapod sandwich, set component on shelf material of your choosing and vibrapods under this.
I do recommend experimenting with pods under speakers, can be very beneficial in many ways, but also can produce too much bass response depending on speakers and type of music listened to, there are past threads that go into this in much more detail please check them out.
Red and Trelja I'm sure are checking in from time to time,
but after a while you burn out answering the same questions over and over, I much rather listen to music than be tweaking or constantly evaluting cables etc. |
George, you bring up a good point. Where have Sam and Red disappeared to ? While i know that Albert has been laying low due to being busy, house reconstruction, etc..., it seems as if more than a few people have wandered off. That list should also include Angela and a few other regulars such as Joe aka Trelja, etc... I know that some folks have taken up "dual residency" both here an on the Asylum, but is there REALLY a need to stop contributing on one / both forums ??? I just hope that everything is okay with all of these folks. Sean
> |
Sure miss "Megasam" and "Redkiwi" they were our tweek gurus. There are probably many of their opinions in the old threads. (Well worth looking into.) 4shure |
Mack many of us share your enthusiasm regarding Vibrapods. I am confused regarding your shelf setup though. You put the pods under the component & then the MDF shelf under the pods?
I have always used them the opposite way - that is:
Black Diamond shelf under the components (I do not remove the component's feet) then the (appropriate for weight) Vibrapods under the B.D. shelf.
For my CD source only, I also have B.D. #4 cones in between the player & the B.D. shelf. I have even been advised to now mass-load the player on top with some lead shot (placed into a black sock) or a thick piece of wood, but I haven't yet experimented in that regard.
So I always have a whole collection of different value pods on hand in case I want to try something else. I even have sets of #5's for under my speakers but haven't yet played with that either. These things are simply amazing & the price makes 'em even moreso. |
great idea to put the pods under your speakers! however, i have one question about pods on components: do you remove the rubber feet that came on the component? i would like to try these but need to know if and how they'll work with my stuff. thanks. |
