Dear Raul,
you are still on your crusade against Dertonearm. It looks like you are deeply hurt by his argumentation. You might know that it is no good style saying bad things about someone without being specific. This is a coward like behavior. Did not think before that you need going this way.
best @ fun only |
Dear Dertonarm, Do not get me wrong. I have respect from all your knowledge. I admire all your Super precision products. I am sure your "Der Tonearm" will be something new and different in audio world.
BUT, please, tell me - what is the benefit, if Luna specify some favorite (for him) cartridge(s). All of the cartridges that fit on Davinci will fit on TW 10,5 and vice versa.
I think, normal first step for Luna is to make his choice about tonearm. As a second step, Luna can think about some cartridges and he will get around 100 useful posts in this thread :-) |
Dear Lbelchev, my comment regarding Luna making up his mind about the cartridges he will use was because - while both tonearms do share similar moving mass - the TW 10.5 and the Grandezza are very different in terms of energy transfer and thus do work together well with different cartridges.
For instance - a nude 1/2" Ortofon SPU will perform VERY different in the two tonearms due to the fairly high amount of energy it transfers into the tonearm while tracking a groove.
Furthermore - if Luna is curious about trying vintage cartridges too or wants to browse on the second hand market for some carts anytime in the future he should indeed consider having the option of azimuth adjustment available.
Yes - he will get as many different recommendations as posts...;-) ... |
This is a great thread as subjective and objective opinions have been freely expressed. Is this what our hobby of HIFI is all about, passion plus practise? It seems the TW10.5 wins over on the practical side. I guess it is like the perfect Swiss Knife of Tonearm. How about the DaVinci? It claims the omission on those practical adjustments is to be able to enhance the emotion of it presentation. Has it succeeded in its claim? Can the owners tell me if its sound is something special emotional wise? Which one will remain a classic in the future? |
Dear Dertonearm, How many people in this world use a nude 1/2" Ortofon SPU or vintage cartridges with TW 10.5/Davinci ? |
Dear Thuchan: You can't be serious. Do you want to read those emails? don'y you care about the deep harm that could make to you and your " partner "? why don't you ask him before?
Do you want I being specific?, ask him. IMHO the best you can do is stay away from this subject because you can be splash with.
++++ " like you are deeply hurt by his argumentation. " ++++
which one? on which subject? which kind of argumentation other than his " children's tales " for ignorants?.
Please don't let me laugh again and again but thank's for this: you make my day!
God made it and the " fortune " put together!!!, you are lucky now that belongs to that german group that you rejected in the past. I hope they ( he ) is not only " using you " for now.
Regards and enjoy the music,
R. |
I own the 12" DaVinci Ref Grandezza and have not heard the Raven 10.5 but I have also owned a dozen different tonearms and currently have 6 of them mounted on operating turntables.
The DaVinci is a particularly fine performer which has never received a poor review from any owners that I am aware of?
It can beat some of the finest arms ever made on certain cartridges.....for instance, with the ZYX UNIverse......it beats the Continuum Copperhead and Fidelity Research FR-66S.
It also can sound rather well with higher compliance MM cartridges which, with many modern arms, is often not the case.
From an aesthetic and quality point of view, I agree with Dertonarm that the DaVinci will become a design 'Classic' if it not already is?
For what it's worth......it is also Jon Valin's favourite current pivot arm :^) |
Dear Luna, I think the person who could give you sound advice (pun intended) regarding TW 10.5 is Dev. I also own Raven, and considering buying TW 10.5 . But after seeing Dev sold his, owning for so short time, I'm having second thought.
For fast reselling, nothing beat Breuer. The last one on Audiogon, now you see it, now you don't. Gone in 60 seconds.
Cheers, |
Gee Halcro, you say all those nice things about the Grandezza and then end up by saying it is a favorite of JV. Kind of ruins the picture for me. By the way ZYX UNIverse on Talea is possibly one of the best combos I have ever heard in my life.
What's the effective mass of the Copperhead? Those two others are of course high mass, and the fact that they sound good to you with high compliance MMs is at least serendipitous (meaning good to know but rather unexpected good luck), in my view. |
Dear Lewm: IMHO the GST-801 with almost any cartridge outperform any SAEC tonearm. Don't take my word for sure, give it a try and if you don't like it I can buy it from you ( I own two-three of them. ) in 500.00!
Regards and enjoy the music,
R. |
I have started my Grandezza experience with Peter Brem's first arm long time ago and received one of the first units ( which doesn't mean it is special). Later on I had two Grand Grandezzas, the current design. From my own experience I agree it is a great arm. What I was missing is a exchangable headshell.
I now saw an inage of the new DaVinci arm coming with a SME shell.
So we may wait a little to see how the new guy is performing. But "the classic design" will always be a good deal.
Best @ Fun Only |
The discussion has been great but the original thread was
"I am getting a Raven one but will have a choice of the Raven 10.5 or DaVinci Grandezza for just $2000 more! Which should I go for? Well I am not sure if Raven one is a good match to this super arm but the 10.5 have got great reviews. Please give soem advice."
Has anyone thought to ask how you can get either of these arms for $2000.
Is he paying too much for the Raven One or could the arms on offer be dodgy ?
The best answer may be to buy the Grandezza for $2000, sell it and then buy a new TW Acoustic. |
Dover,
I think he means that the Grandezza can be had for only $2,000 more than the Raven 10.5?
At least that's how I read it? |
Halcro,
Thanks, I was a bit hasty re-reading the initial thread. In retrospect I think you are right. Does add context though, as the question becomes is the Da Vinci worth the extra $2k. I'd buy the Rhodanized Da Vinci if it were me. I would be wondering is he talking about buying a Raven One or Raven AC - 1 motor. If he is buying the Raven One then the extra money may be better spent on upgrading the turntable, to AC1 if possible.. |
The discussion has been great but the original thread was
"I am getting a Raven one but will have a choice of the Raven 10.5 or DaVinci Grandezza for just $2000 more! Which should I go for? Well I am not sure if Raven one is a good match to this super arm but the 10.5 have got great reviews. Please give soem advice."
Has anyone thought to ask how you can get either of these arms for $2000.
Is he paying too much for the Raven One or could the arms on offer be dodgy ?
The best answer may be to buy the Grandezza for $2000, sell it and then buy a new TW Acoustic. |
Apologies for last post double up - my mac is playing up. |
Quick question. Anyone compare the latest round of wood based Tonearms such as Durand, Talea to the latest from Schroeder & Davinci. I wonder how much of the sound can be attributed to wood. The reason I ask is all the Zyx universe comments were referencing wood arms. I had the same experience with my SQ. seems to be synergistic with wood.
Breuer is a nice arm. It is a little limited in features & cartridge setup. |
Dear friends: For those FR tonearm advocates this product is a must to own. Btw, it works with all the new Ikeda tonearm designs too ( I own it. ):
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtnrm&1325038195&/Fidelity-Research-B60-elevation-base
Regards and enjoy the music,
R. |
I just want to point out how hard it is to get at the truth of things, when people argue with the purpose of trying to attack a person. |
Dertonarm: Are you for real? After pomp the Grandezza to a future class status and value, now came to the dump of your Grandezza for under 5K even 2K lower than another demo unit in US. LOL. |
Dear friends: Any of you mated already with your beloved tonearms this new Ortofon LOMC cartridge?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
The new Ortofon flagship MC Anna
MC Anna represents a combination of following elements very characteristic for Ortofon:
The housing and the body of the cartridge are made in Titanium with SLM technique. The Selective Laser Melting technique was pioneered by Ortofon for manufacturing of the MC A90, SPU 90th Anniversary and Xpression cartridges
At the High-End show May 2011 in Munich Ortofon was very pleased to showcase the brand newest High End flagship MC Anna.
Ortofon has a long tradition paying tribute to the persons who had been a feature of the High-End culture, Ortofon culture and Music culture and history.
In honour of these remarkable persons Ortofon launched a number of products through the last years, incl. MC Windfeld, MC Rohmann, Kontrapunkt BACH series etc.
This year we are very proud and honoured to introduce our new High End cartridge MC Anna, dedicated to the virtuoso opera singer Anna Netrebko. By this we will emphasizes our commitment and devotion to the music, pure musicality and the power it possesses.
The new improved magnet system which Ortofon has patent pending. High performance iron-cobalt alloy is applied for some parts of the magnet system
The new revolutionary armature damping system that provides complete elimination of unwanted resonance
Ortofon Replicant 100 diamond, thin and light, with an extraordinarily large contact surface, tracing accuracy unparalleled by any other needle in existence. Special polished Nude Ortofon Replicant 100 on Boron cantilever provides more responsive and transparent sound reproduction.
Technical data_preliminary:
Output voltage at 1 kHz, 5cm/sec.: 200 µV
Channel balance at 1 kHz: 0,5 dB
Channel separation at 1 kHz: 25 dB
Channel separation at 15 kHz: 22 dB
Frequency response: 20 Hz - 20 kHz + / - 1,5 dB
Tracking ability at 315 Hz at recommended tracking force: 80 µm
Compliance, dynamic, lateral: 9 µm/mN
Stylus type: Special polished Nude Ortofon Replicant 100 on Boron Cantilever
Stylus tip radius: r/R 5/100 µm
Tracking force, recommended: 2,3 g (23 mN)
Tracking angle: 23°
Internal impedance, DC resistance: 6 Ohm
Recommended load impedance: > 10 Ohm
Cartridge body material: SLM Titanium
Cartridge colour: Silver/Black
Cartidge weight: 16 g
Looks great in its " rounded " body shape.
Regards and enjoy the music,
R.
|
Great news! Now I will be able to pick up a used A90 for "peanuts", as all those who must have the latest and greatest will be shedding their outmoded and outdated A90s. I love it. And woe to the poor guy who has an NOS A90, hoping to sell it for more than retail price.
Dear Dgad, Thanks for pointing out the possibly synergy between ZYX UNIverse and wood tonearms. I can tell you that the combination of it with Talea was really great. Since I do already own a Reed, you have added fuel to the fire. My thinking was that there is a particular "sound" of unipivots, even the best ones like Talea and Graham, that may make them a good complement to the UNIverse. |
Dear Lewm, indeed the ZYX UNIverse (and other ZYX cartridges) do work VERY well in uni-pivot tonearms as in wooden arm wands.
One of the reasons is that the ZYX cartridges do put very little energy into the tonearm during tracking. |
Easy on the hot sauce Raul.
It's getting difficult to predict which end of your body passes the most stale air. |
I just want to clarify that the arms comes with the table and DaVinci is actually $1000 more. The reason is that the TW table and 10.5 arm will be brand new where the DaVinci is two years old. |
Greetings, Kdl. I have it under good authority that a crazy Texan traded a Da Vinci Grandezza tonearm in on a new top-class vinyl machine from Bavaria. I believe that someone will be getting a great Grandezza at a wonderful entry acquisition price, maybe even you! |
Luna, As we babble on, you've probably got the idea, as I have, that no one can really tell you which of these two tonearms will please you the most. Obviously they are both high quality items, so you have little to lose either way. |
My take is different than yours Dertonarm. I find the "tonality" of wood makes up for the ZYX Universe slight tendency to a leaner but more detailed sound. You might be right about the unipivots but wood for me was the major factor. I sold my ZYX as it was a little off of neutral and honestly now I do miss it. Goes to show what we like best might not be the best.
To sum up audiophiles beware, this is a biased and opinionated hobby. You need to take into account that at many an audio show people disagree about what room sounds good. How can we truly get accurate or meaningful advise from a forum unless we qualify the person giving the advise. |
Thanks to everyone who has inputed to this thread. Especially to you, Dgad! After our long discussion with Dgad, I have also asked the opinion from my dealer who does TW and Davinci. His analysis is similar to Dgads that the Davinci has better valve and can be of a higher level, but... may be restricted by the Raven One and my novices set up ability. The TW arm is easier to play around for better results in my system. I will save up for a better cartridge like the XV1. As to upgrade to a higher level TT like Raven AC would be out of my reach for a long while. Dgads suggestion of synergy between arm/cartridge combinations is most valuable and I will keep that as reference. By my own, I would have gone for the DaVinci with no hesitation for its valve and its look! Following his sincerely detailed and unbiased advice, I think I had a pretty good idea now. |
