Moved into a new (old) house, with wood floors and it is giving me a huge headache. I have my AR Turntable sitting on top of my rack, and it is absolutely unplayable. You can not even tip toe through the room with out the needle bouncing out of control. I placed a bike tube and a piece of glass underneath it, and it helped, but its still not playable. Here's what I need to know. 1) Would a new table help? The AR is set up so the platter and the arm float on the same suspension (which appears to be very loose), would a TT with a different design help/solve my problem. 2) If not the table, what can I do to get this thing to work? I am in college so $ is very slim (I am talking Ramen and Keystone slim). I don't think my landlord would be happy about mounting it on the wall, but I may take that chance if it comes to it. All advise is much appreciated!
Move the TT to a corner (where the floor joists are more solid), or wall mount on a wall rack (anchored into the wall studs.) Use an electronic stud locator to find the center of each stud.
If it's an old house, the ceiling will bounce too, and it's Ugly, Ugly, Ulgly !!! Plus the TT will sway when you use it unless you add horizontal guy wires or post tension wires down to the floor -- more Ugly!! So forget that.
Elizabeth's shoring solution is OK. But instead of bricks, get four concrete piers (look like 12 in. cubes w/ sloping sides and a steel strap imbedded in the top to hold a post.)
Place two per joist on the ground in the crawl space under where the rack feet come down, and then using temporary 2x4s or framing jacks force the joists up in that area about an inch and slip 4x4 posts cut to length onto all the piers and remove the jacks.
ABSOLUTE BEST SOLUTION? A steel wall rack/shelf lag bolted into the studs or (even better) a masonry wall. Nothing better short of a reinforced concrete column poured directly into the ground (this solution works nicely for telescopes too, after removing the roof ;--) .
Try hanging from the ceiling first. Really won't cost much to try. May be ugly, but you may be surprised how well it works. I had to do that in my apartment, and even though there was an apartment above me, worked well. Just got a platform and cable. It will sway slightly but it's cheap and easy. Good luck.. I know how frustrating that can be
Not an uncommon experience for folks who have a turntable with suspension. Believe it or not, unsuspended tables can work far better on unrigid floors type than a suspended one.
If this is a ground floor you can go under the house and add supports to floor in the area where your tt is located. You can mount your tt on the wall as jjmali suggest, or in extremis you could build a support platform over your floor with the outside edges extending beyond the joists on eith side of your audio rack and with no contact with the cloor between the joists (so when you step on the floor where you rack is your tt/arm won't bounce up and down - unfortunately when you walk on the floor away ftom the rack it may still bounce.)
Personally, I'd either reinforce the floor under the turntable by adding support under the house. I'd probably use use piers or small jacks directly under the floor under the rack, or I'd get an unsuspended turntable. I did the latter (and years later I have two tt's and a new house with a stable floor).
Oh, I forgot to mention, you might just relocate your rack to an different area in the room where the floor has better support. Floors near bearing walls and corners are usually more solid although corners may not be the best place for acoustical reasons.
I had the same problem with my Dual a few years ago. I found that using a table that is wider than it is tall really helps (I used an endtable from my living room). That solved about 85 percent of the problem. When I went to an unsuspended table, the problem was solved completely.
Moving the turntable to a corner is a great, cost effective idea. I don't think that mounting it on the wall will help. I don't it's the floor, more like what is supporting the floor that is causing the flexing. If the floor is flexing, there is a good chance that the wall moves with the floor.
If you can get to the basement and look at the floor joists, you may be able to add a couple to the already existing to stiffen the floor. 2 floor joists should be relatively inexpensive. You may find your solution by placing the table in a more structurally sound location in the room if one exists.
YOu might check to see which way the floor joists run. If they are running towards your equipment, this exacerbates the problem by transmitting footfalls right to the rack. If this is the way your floor joists run, you can try moving the rack to a different part of the room. This would of course only work if yor wires were lengthy enough.
A turntable in a corner is NOT a great idea. It's not even a mediocre idea. You don't want to put such a device where standing bass waves tend to migrate. This is a recipe for.., well you know the story...
What you need is here:
http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina25.htm
I used this on the highly sprung floor of my old house with my Spacedeck. NO floorborne vibrations WHATSOEVER when your table sits on this thing. I recently moved into a house with a slab floor (see system pics) and I thought I would no longer need this device. Wrong. It still improves the sonics when footfalls aren't even an issue.
Hanging from the ceiling is not only a cost effective solution to your problem, but also a superb isolating technique. The only vibrations that get feed back into the turntable are airborne, but they do not couple very well with self/turntable unit. I use picture hanger wires with turnbuckles at three corners, which really helps in the levelling process. The wires barely show, giving my Alex III and masonite shelf an errie self-suspended appearance.
I've got my TT in a corner AND have a wood floor. Needless to say, I've got problems. (A downstairs neighbor slamming a door will cause a burst of air through my subwoofer port). I hate to put big holes in the ceiling or wall of a rental unit.. I think I'll try Elizabeth's idea.
Go to a place that sells marble and granite countertops, and get a slab that they cut out for a sink in a kitchen. Get a nice thick one -- 1.5 or 2 inches. If where you are is anywhere like here (Portland Oregon) you'll be able to get a nice piece for less than $20.
Plop that baby on a low sturdy table and put your tt on top of that. It's almost as good as a concrete floor.
Then, once you have the $, get a Mana support. They work wonders for Linn LP-12's and the AR is quite similar.
Your problem is not caused by vertical travel. The problem has to do with horizontal travel resulting from your tables suspension responding to floor deflection. An unsuspended table will not be affected as greatly and can be buffered more easily because there is no suspension to exacerbate floor movement. You might very well find an old direct drive (the more massive the better) at a yard sale or a pawn shop. Another approach might be to advertise for a straight up trade of your turntable for a Technics 1200 or such. And the posters who suggested adding mass are right to make that suggestion. It will help even more with an unsuspended table.
Hanging from the ceiling is not only a cost effective solution to your problem, but also a superb isolating technique. The only vibrations that get feed back into the turntable are airborne, but they do not couple very well with self/turntable unit.
What if someone lives above you? The main problem is that you will get the floor vibrations from above. You can avoid walking around in your apartment when playing music, but you can't tell the above neighbor not to. Also, the higher the floor the worse probably the suspension of the floor.
If you have nobody living above your place then of course you can go ahead.
Also, another warning: If supporting the floor from underneath with jacks, do not tighten the jacks too much. Even a little pressure from below might result in tears in the house walls; so be careful.
Addding mass is always a possibilty: cinderblock from Homedepot are a very cheap solution. Add some sorbothane between layers of cinderblocks and concrete tiles and you should be ok.
I have old sprung floors in my house. I don't care how much you mass load the joists from the top (I have used up to 600lbs.), you cannot eliminate vibration passed from feet or from the main speakers into the TT. Corner placement can reduce vibration significantly. Any adverse effects from standing waves in the corner is minimal in comparison to the improvement gained from a solid footing. If you have access to the basement below, shore up the joists with 4x4s and jacks.
Thanks to everyone for all the ideas. After realizing that the room I am in was added on, and one of my walls is concrete, I decided to mount the table on the wall. Got some brackets, 2 pieces of 5/8" MDF and some foam to place between them from Home Depot for under $30. Had the shelf installed in under an hour, placed the turntable on top, started playing, and its absolutely fantastic!! You can jump rope in front of the table and the needle doesn't move an inch. I could not be happier with this set up, I know I lucked out. Thanks again for all the advise!
You took the words right out of my moutn - try a wall mount, but make sure its a load bearing wall for best results.
The other option, which worked fairly well for me in the past, is to put the TT on a maple butcher block and put rollerblocks under that. Worked better than any other type of suspension that I tried. Inner tubes was the worst IMO.
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