Tubes vs Solid State - Imaging, Soundstaging, 3D

A couple of questions, first of all, are we comparing apples with apples? That means are you comparing solid state integrated amps with the two tube integrated amps that you are using? Separates could make a difference in what you are hearing. I have even noticed that monoblock amps offer a clearer image and larger soundstage than their stereo counterparts.

Secondly, did you experiment with any of the small signal tubes? From my experiences with tube integrated amplifiers, changing the small signal tubes makes a much bigger difference to the sound than changing the power tubes. Try changing the 6922/ECC83/6SN7's in the Cary or Octave, you may have better results than playing with the power tubes.

Mechans - I am using an Octave V40se with Svetlana Winged C EL34s. The Gold Lions were reissues in a Cary SLI-80 signature.

Newbee - While I might not have broad based listening skills that it may take a decade or more to develop, I have owned 20+ good speakers (1-5k) and just about as many amps/integrateds (1-5k). I'm really interested to find out how a tube amp could bring me the clarity and realism I sense from SS gear. When I switch from tube to SS, I often experience a relief, as if the sound is coming into focus.

Islandmandan - I plan to try some Svetlana Winged C KT88s which I have heard are a great match with Octave. Perhaps I just haven't heard enough tubes. I will say that the EL34s are very smooth and easy to listen to. I also would not say that I could recognize a "tubey sound" but when I switch back to SS, I definitely sense a change (that I happen to like).

From my somewhat limited experience with tube amps, I have found a definite difference in what tubes you are using in any given device.

In my two current amps, I have gone to almost all NOS tubes, Telefunken small tubes in my VAC, and Mullard XF2 EL 34 output tubes.

My other amp, an SET 300B, has all NOS tubes except the 300B's, which are quite good Chinese mesh-plates.

In both amps, changing to the NOS tubes, made a great difference in the quality of what I hear. I didn't expect to hear such a great improvement, but, for me at least, the difference was significant.

There is no "tubey" sound, per se, just deilicious, high-resolution musical enjoyment. Before, I was a confirmed solid state guy, but not any longer. Better tubes make for better music.

Regards,
Dan

Not in my experience, but the use of words such as imaging, soundstaging, 3d, as well as your terms "image more sharply and offer the deepest, clearest field" are open to diverse interpertations often based on totally different and not necessarily revelatory audio experiences.

I have found SS components in general can create a square(ish) wave which as it relates to the rise time can create a dynamic (impactful) sound. This can create the sharpness effect you mention, however the back side of the wave when correspondingly sharp, as it often is, creates a sense of clarity at the expense of natural decay and renders the sense of sterility that many notice with SS (as opposed to tubes). Your observations may be correct as far as they go but I would think that what you are hearing may not have as 'natural' a sound as I, and I think other tube-o-philes would prefer.

I have not had the fortune of hearing SS create the 'depth of image' you have experienced. I don't mean to be offensive but I think perhaps your experience with 'depth of image' may either be limited by exposure, or equipment/synergy/set up, or broad base acquired listening skills. Apart from liquidity this is one of the things for which tubes are prized.

IMHO.

No not usually. Tubes tend to be superb image making devices, with outstanding sound staging. Some tube amps will roll off the uppermost treble giving the sound the syrupy "tubiness" people think of when recalling the sound of older tube amps. Modern tube amps can be very clear and clean sounding even crisp.
All that said I don't doubt your experience with tube amps, but you did ask the question. Try to listen to an Audio Research tube amp, it might give you pause. Were the Gold Lion tubes current production or old stock? Were the tubes really EL-34 or KT-77?