Tube Research Labs Dude vs. Shindo Labs preamps

Well said Knghifi, the more I follow this thread it seems Cdente is making a very strong case for himself. He has returned the unit TWICE! to TRL without resolution, would a third time be a charm? Why would TRL build his Dude with ill fitting panels in the first place?Do they check these units prior to shipment? Again why no solution after 9 months! And others have had ground/hum issues also, something just seems odd. Glory and Agear oblviously feel the need to defend TRL based on their own positive experiences with the Dude. What does TRL have to say on their behave? It appears Cdente has every reason to voice his complaints.

Listen up dudes chares1dad and others: I was asking did he try to communicate these problems with TRL and also I am saying how do we verify the allegations without th eother party being present here to give their side of the story. What is wrong with your guys?

Goldeneraguy
"Hey,Diva_ with your reply you are certainly are acting like one."

Say somethinh that is intectually inspiring.

"I have no beef and am not a sympathizer."

ok, then keep quite.

Ish, if he sent the unit back to TRL twice already he must have been in some communication with them. Now whether or not he has been in communication lately I do not know. As I said in a previous post maybe he is just frustrated to the point where he doesn't feel it is worth it. Does he have just cause to feel that way? It appears from his side of the story that is the case. However, as you noted and I agree, that is just one side of it.

You stated in a previous thread the other party is not able to respond. How is it they are not able to respond? Its pretty easy to register and post comments here. So why doesn't the other party state their side of the story? You seem to be pretty close to TRL (even have Paul pictured with your amps on your system page) so maybe you should encourage them to contribute their version of the events. Of course the other party doesn't have to explain their side if they don't want to, which makes it a bit unfair to attack someone who is just stating their experience.

You think TRL is the only manufacturer to come under criticism on these forums? Seems like it happens weekly and in some cases with some well known manufacturers wearing the target. No one has a 100% satisfied customer base. I don't see why one person's criticism has caused this much bickering and threads/posts to be deleted.

Gallant diva,
There`s nothing wrong with us "guys" we`re outside observers reading an open forum thread involving one man`s experience with a manufactuer`s product, nothing more or less. You have no personal involvementin this matterfrom what I can tell.What authority do you have to tell another poster to keep quiet? you`re coming across as rather immature and silly.

Clio09 says:
"if he sent the unit back........"

yes, if he did. Paul says he did not send it twice.

Clio09 says: "......he must have been in some communication"

Puals say the last communication from him was "happy christmas and the preamp is fine"

Clio09 says "How is it they are not able to respond?"

I do not know. Do they? do they not? How do we verify whatever is said by one party as truth? In any court of law or any other environment unless we get both sides of the story we cannot take sides. And I am not take sides but mnay be there is the other side of the coin.

Clio09 says "I don't see why one person's criticism has caused this much bickering"

Just like my asking if he communicated and how do we verify has caused several guys' hormonal imblanance.

I stop here. Now all of you restless souls go figure.

My Dude was made in the same time period as Cdente's. It seems to me all of this is a matter of perspective and chosen attitude. My experience mirrors the host of others with TRL and that has been a very positive one. No matter what others say about their wonderful direct experiences with TRL, Cdente has set his attitude and has decided on a chosen perspective. We cannot and should not try to change him. We are all responsible for our own attitudes and chosen filters on life’s experiences.

It is easy to see how a situation like this arises. It is easy to understand how folks can have complete opposite opinions of the same situation. Rather then argue and get angry, perhaps it is better to just accept and move on. Let’s consider the contributing forces that all came together and how two people can choose to react differently based on their chosen perception filter.

- My Dude, like Charlie’s , has a back panel that is slightly oversized and sticks out a little at the bottom of the unit. It looks fine and the cuts are straight a neat, but the panel runs slightly lower then the bottom of the unit. Can’t see it from the front or sides really, and without any footers it can scratch the stand it is on.

For me this is a 100% non-issue and I never even thought about it as it looks fine and I put footers underneath it. For Charlie, it is an issue that seems to override the more positive aspects of the Dude we will get into. Again, this seems to be a matter of chosen perspective. In my review I mentioned the fit and finish of the Dude was DIY like and to buy the unit for its sound. The current Dude has stunning fit and finish as an FYI. It also costs more now. The first Dudes were priced at $3,200-$3,400, not $3,800.

The cover issue seems very slight also based on comments on this thread. Now, if the top is bent ½ an inch to close properly, then this is indeed a matter of more importance. Seems the bend is very slight however. Again this is a matter of perspective and expectations. No big deal for one and causing anger in another. The next consideration will put this into perspective.

- For $3200 - $3400 the Dude sounds better then every single preamp I have ever heard next to it – by a nice margin also. It has bested preamps that sell for up to $30,000 . This $3400 preamp embarrasses other well reviewed pieces from well respected builders when it comes to the sound. What is this worth? Does this mean owners of preamps not sounding as good, that they paid $7,000 or $12,000 for, should be angered and up in arms? Should they post not to buy from these other companies because the sound disappoints vs. the Dude and the Dude costs thousands less? The value in the Dude is in the sound for me and others. Yes, the new Dude now has stunning case work, but mine and Charlie’s were not furniture grade. How one perceives value is the filter one will choose to judge a product. People differ. Rather then judge other peoples filters, make your own determination and move on.

- Now we come to the issue of “ground” noise. The very reason the Dude was sent back to TRL. No problem was found at the builder when sent back. The noise was not recreated in another system or on the bench. Well seasoned Aphiles know grounding issues pop up with changes in a system and are hard to cure sometimes. I know this from experience. A new amp causes a hum that is not recreated in my friends system. System synergy/compatibility etc. all can cause problems.

Compounding the issue is the fact that during shipping, and we all know how gentle our prized gear is treated, wires became unhooked etc. causing another issue for the owner. Who know what else happened during shipping including causing a cap failure and on and on… The builder works with Charlie to fix and the Dude is up and running again. The owner still notices the same “grounding” noise. Now the owner is very frustrated and with good reason. What or who is the cause for this frustrating situation? How we choose to look at it will determine how we move forward. We own our own attitudes.

This is where one’s perspective or filter really comes into play. If one chooses to think the Dude is not a great value because of the back plate overhang, stubborn ground noise, shipping damage, not fitted with NOS tubes, frustrating situation etc.. then so be it and he is welcome to that opinion. However we must understand that once we view another party as evil or having bad intentions, then the chance for real communication and contentment is lost. Hard to move forward with someone you feel is against you.

Over time I think this has happened with this situation, to bad really. I now read about the tubes not being what he wanted and this shows me the situation has reach the point of non-communication and anger. Do we expect the Dude to be shipped with NOS’s ? Are we looking under every rock to support our growing anger or do we have a spirit of working together and resolving?

Unfortunately a third party looking at the unit will not help with the real problem at hand. That problem has to do with attitude and perspective. No doubt a third party will only add fuel to the fire if one is intent on finding fault and is beyond wanting to communicate with the other party. More and more reasons supporting the anger will crop up when stuck in this mode.

In the end we own our own attitudes and filters and whether this leads to anger or peace. Agoners can continue to jump on and take sides, but it is all noise really. It seems to me many factors have come together causing a frustrating situation and we all choose how to filter these fac

Getting back to the OP's original questions, in particular - "Better yet, has anybody compared them side by side before?" - has anyone made a side by side comparison of the Dude and a Shindo preamp, and are you willing to share what you heard?

Hey-Diva,I think it should be you that drops out of this forum due to your nonsensical posts.
You have lost all credibility.

Grannyring,
Your reply is reasonable and thoughtful, far better than the nonsense from Glory and Gallant diva. I hope Cdente and TRL can settle this soon with mutual satisfaction.
Take Care,

Yes, Bill IMO is a good TRL ambassador. His is the voice (most times lone voice) of reason. I may not always agree with him on subjective opinions, preferences, etc., but there is no doubt what he is after in his system, has worked diligently to attain it, and he manages his convictions in these forums professionally.

Well said Bill.

4musica44107, you beat me to it. LOL. I wish my answer was yes. I would live to hear a Shindo rig. Any owners in Charlotte NC?

Gallant, I believe Tthean is in Dallas and I told him to contact either you or Huy. Any Shindo owners in Dallas, Vinyljh?

I sincerely hope all is well with the Shindo family after the devastation in Japan.Something like this makes you think of whats really important.

Aman Goldeneraguy!

I sent my regard to the owner of Amtrans in Tokyo immediately after the earthquake/tsunami, whom I purchased parts from for most of my projects. I finally got a reply from him 3 days later. (Normally he replied me immediately or within 6-8 hours, the latest.) I took the liberty to share the email with all of you:

On Mar 14, 2011, at 02:16 AM, togashi wrote:

> Dear Mr.TThean
>
> Thank you very much for your kind email.
> We Japanese thank for a rescue party from USA.
>
> My family and I are OK.
>
> It was hugest earthquake I've ever had
> And I have learned Tsunami is more horrible than earthquake.
> Even now, earthquake is continuing...
>
> Though nuclear power plants in Japan are out of order, it doesn't make big trouble, I believe.
> Now, I wish a peace of the world.
>
> Best Regards,
> Togashi

(At that time, the nuclear plants were still under control.)

I feel that the Japanese are a very grateful people. He is just a normal citizen and not any ranking government official, but the first thing that came out of his mind was to represent his country to thanks us for the help. This make me so proud of our country, and especially to the military. We should be thankful everyday for our lives and families that we have in this country. Yes, we should also remember the people in Japan in our pray as they are recovering from this tragedy. God bless America...

Gallant_diva, I'll address the statements from you/Paul when I get home this weekend. If I can find them, I'll pull the two shipping receipts with Paul's Fedex number so we can put that one to bed. "Happy Christmas"? I'm sure I did not say that but I'll try to get to the bottom of that lie as well.

So are you the next TRL attack dog coming after me? Let me say this again. I have chosen not to work with TRL going forward. I made that decision a long time ago for the reasons already stated. I want nothing and expect nothing from them. So take your spin and talking points somewhere else please.

Grannyring: Usually I value your perspective but in this case I can't dissagree with you more. These guys here beat the hell out of me, I move forward with efforts to resolve my last problem (you know be part of the solution and all) and you complain about that's adding fuel to the fire?

Amen....

Tthean , Thank you for sharing your thoughts and words