Ahendler, kool system. I spent 11 years in MN (Maggie country) and always enjoyed hearing them. Are the antique amps able to drive them adequately? You also seem to have a tight and narrow listening space. My friends who owned them always struggled a little in setup.... |
"honest A/B"
No such thing imho. A system is a system and needs to be tuned and set up carefully which takes time- more time than an A/B allows. Plus, in your system we'd only learn what your amps + pre-amp + speakers + source + cables + your room do... which might be helpful to you but not others with totally different variables. And I can't tell you how many times I've heard a component fail in comparison to a known lesser unit due to limitations of the system- even Shindo versus higher end Shindo. One can make the analogy to that of a plumbing system... if its draining slowly or clogged, sending more water through isn't going to make things better.
Slow and soggy isn't musical. Musical is often a misnomer for exactly that. Musical is when you forget about the system and hear the music. Gone is the thought process or descriptors. You're correct, 99% of the time people use musical to describe softness, overly warm etc. I would agree that this would be quite boring. |
Hi Agear,
I should have it in another week or two hopefully. I've been waiting patiently for a bit now because this is his brand new full function model. Longer term as funds allow I plan to go all Tron and Horning. |
Just received an email from Jeff or High Water Sound, the current lead time for a Tron linstage/preamp is 8-10 weeks.
Latinsambal, which one did you order? |
Latinsamba,
You have good taste. I`d love to hear a Tron/Horning system compared to a well setup Shindo/Devore. I don`t think you could go wrong either way. |
I ordered the Tron Seven full function preamp (line plus phono) in Ultimate spec with all silver wiring and transformers. Yes there is a bit of a wait to get one but hopefully well worth it. |
RE: Tron:
Why does it take 10 weeks to stuff a circuit board in a chassis? The very nature of circuit board, by necessity of it's creation, is a higher degree of production speed and cheaper costs. Simply curious, not meant to insult.
~K.H.~ |
All the Tron Reference or Ulitmate version of the their line stages, phonostages, or full function preamps contain many custom spec. parts made to Tron's specifications. Due to the lead time for some of thes parts which Tron does not keep in stock and only builds the electronics to order there unfortunately is a lead time. Well worth the wait in my opinion. I am currently waiting for an Ultimate Seven Phono. |
Tthean - You can contact me for a less-than-glowing perspective on TRL from a quality and customer service perspective. |
Shindo makes terrific products. Love their stuff.
Never heard The Dud.
No financial interest in either line. |
One more vote for Shindo.I had the entry level preamp.The distributor is A-ONE along with their products.
I do own a Tron now and cant ever see owning anything else. |
Tthean, as I said before, there are two very happy Dude owners (latest generation) in the Dallas area. No issues with fit and finish, customer service, etc. Gallant_diva is one. Ask Paul for the other. His name is Huy, but I have lost his contact data. They both have very expensive systems whatever that is worth.... |
Chucky
Move on and get over it. |
It seems if Cdente had an unsatisfactory experience with TRL`s products/service he has every right to voice his opinion as much as those who repeatedly rave about them. Glory, what is it he should get over if he has a legitimate complaint? |
Chucky,
Get out of your play pen and start walking and acting like a grown man. No room for cry babies here and members are tired of your alligator tears.
Ship your blinkin Dude to TRl and have them sell it to a more worthy owner.
You are a Bitter Dude LOL |
Charles1dad, Charles has every right to air his grievances, but he is not manning up and calling TRL directly, which is beyond me. They are willing help, but he is choosing to be destructive instead. It is part of the Jerry Springer therapeutic model which always ends badly. |
Now my manhood is at stake! My apologies to the thread originator. Not sure if sending the thing back to TRL for a third time is manly or just down-right foolish. I believe the best course of action for my situation is to go third party for repair. |
Seems from the previous thread that just got deleted Cdente outlined pretty clearly conversations he had with TRL to try to rectify the problem. Perhaps he's now overly frustrated to the point where he feels working with them isn't going to improve his lot. Who really knows at this point? It's basically all hearsay except for what we hear from the primary parties involved. So far only one side is talking. What I do know is that threads disappearing doesn't benefit anyone. Quite frankly the behavior of a few produces negative benefits for the community as a whole. Even more to the point I believe, as it did in the past, it poorly reflects on the manufacturer. They don't need or deserve to deal with the fall out that generally occurs because of this type of behavior or be associated with it. Ship your blinkin Dude to TRL and have them sell it to a more worthy owner. Well has the manufacturer made this offer? To me this is the most reasonable thing I've read since this all got started. |
For the record I will gladly ship it back to them for a full refund. Changes nothing in terms of my experience with them as a consumer or as a member of this community. And no I have not heard anything directly from the manufacturer. |
Tony, does Charlie's experiences square with your own since you know the Weitzels well and have owned their products in the past?
For those of you who are confused by thread censorship, please review AG's bylaws. The previous thread referenced involved slander of two separate manufacturers, one by a third party (someone other than the owner of the problematic piece of equipment) and the other by someone who has been offered refunds and help in the past but for unknown reasons fails to engage the manufacturer for reasons which are a mystery. I myself have had struggles with other manufacturers, but publicizing has no inherent value and is self-defeating. If the manufacturer offers no help, then I can sympathize with this tactic, but that is not the case with TRL.
Charlie, take your pre-amp to another audiophiles house and see if this phenomenon is transferable. What specific trouble shooting have you done? Are you still using that vintage (circa 1940s) western electric wire? Having a third party attempt a repair may be cathartic but unlikely to produce fruit. Either way, let us know what steps you take to resolve this situation. |
Chuck,
Did TRL offer to sell the unit for you? No Pinocchio movements on us now.
Did you call Paul before your cut throat rage in the forums? |
Clio09, since you felt inspired to chime in, what has been your experience with TRL in the past? |
No not to the best of my recollection but I can check emails to be sure. I do remember asking for a refund at one point though. I really did go the extra mile(s) to hang in there and resolve the problems. I went far over and above the call of duty as a consumer. That I can say with absolute certainty.
It is possible that my situation is isolated. Problem is we can never find that out for sure for reasons previously mentioned. Obviously I have already written this thing off from manufacturer support and from a resell perspective. Im not comfortable here anymore and probably moving on to another forum so you can keep this manufacturers reputation untarnished for all the wrong reasons. Have a good night. |
Agear, are you saying I was offered a refund and refused it? I went back through all my emails to Paul and during my 9 month ordeal I found two where I asked for a loaner (before it was shipped back the first time) and a refund the second time it came back DOA. Neither of my requests were fulfilled. Send the proof of your accusations to the original thread creator. After all its for his or her benefit right?
Why are you asking me about troubleshooting? You were copied on at least one email response to Paul and we talked countless times over the phone. You even acknowledged others were having the same problem! You even floated the idea of a third party to take a look at it!
Personally I cant believe TRL allows you to represent them. You make them look a lot worse than they really are. |
Just two questions.
Is Agear a dealer for TRL.He is not listed as such.
It seems like you and Glory are feuding.How did Glory get involved with your complaint to TRL |
If this question is directed to me I don't know Glory and he knows nothing about me or my experinces with TRL. You will need to ask him about his involvement and motivations here. |
Goldeneraguy, no, just an end user who has paid full price for all the gear I own. That's a fair question.
I wouldn't necessarily say they are feuding. Charlie has voiced his frustrations in multiple threads, some even not related to TRL, and the internet medium tends to propagate feud-like conditions.
Charlie and I have spoken many times on the phone since we are both Dude owners and I previously owned his speakers, the EP 2.3s. He is obviously frustrated (I have been there with other manufacturers) and needs some resolution. The whole issue is how to get there.
The irony of his situation (IMO) is that he would be better served going with Clayton Shaw's spatial system for his EP speakers. That way, you get rid of the cheap pro (DBX) digital x-over/room correction unit which performs a redundant DA conversion and sullies the sound. The Dude (and any pre-amp for that matter) is not the optimal solution. Again, I have no vested interest in Spatial.... |
Yes Charlie, others have had problems with ground loop or buzz. 4/5 (excluding you at this point) were related to associated equipment and/or cables. You are going to look pretty stupid if after all the flamethrowing online it turns out to be something else.
Again, take the Dude to a friends rig. See if the phenomenon is transferrable. Try different cabling. Have a third party examine it. By all means. |
Thank you for the clarifacation |
Goldeneraguy, the problems with my Dude were identified long before I move to EP speaker platform. I still have most of those same components in the mix today. That system iteration consisted of the following:
Bel Canto CD-2
Audio Horizons Tube DAC 3.0
TRL Dude
Bel Canto Ref1000 monoblocks
Audio Horizons and Harmonic technology IC's
Acoustic Zen Speaker cables
I'm not frustrated with my situation but rather not being allowed to share an experience with others on this site. Having to fend off members like Agear and Glory openly only makes TRL look bad IMHO and there are some really good things to say about the sound of this product.
Never interfered with their right to share experiences about any product or service on this site. I lots of really nice members contacting me behinds the scenes sharing information and experiences. Shame it has to happen in this manner.
|
It is a shame it has to happen in this manner, and it actually makes you look bad Charlie. Orders are continuing to come in despite your best attempts. Please let us know what is actually wrong with your pre-amp when that is diagnosed.
At this time, TRL's current product stands for itself and the witness of its inherent value will continue to unfold regardless of bitter naysayers. It is probably one of the best pre-amps under 30K, and if you are frustrated with mediocre sound and overpriced gear, give it a whirl.... |
So you have access to TRL order systems and sales numbers? And you are just and end user. Right. I wish TRL the best and hope for the sake of other potential buyers that my unit quality and service experience is not the norm. |
Cdente: I am more interested in the comparison of the sound. Have you done that? By the way, many people have had excellent experience with TRL. It seems like you may have had an isolated incident. But my moto is "be a part of the solution not part of the problem" why not try to work out on the problem and fina simple solution? |
It's getting shipped on Friday to a third party for assessment. Just got off the phone with them. Keep you posted on the results. |
We are for you chuck and hope you can get through this |
This is strange indeed. Cdente has a complaint with TRL going bach 9 months! that`s apparently unresolved. Cdente is understandably displeased. What`s a mystery is Agear and Glory`s role/interest if they`re not connected with TRL. Is it possible that Cdente had a bad experience with TRL even though Agear and Glory hav`nt? |
I have a Dude and TRL is currently making me an OTL amp.
The Dude pre amp has been a positive ride for me and I am not on the TRL payroll LOL.
I hope the OP gets to hear one. He will piss his pants in laughter when he hears how great it sounds. Right Chuck? Come on now I know you can say something positive about the sound.
Agear and Granny got my attention with their praise of the Dude and I bought it with their help. |
Best sounding preamp I have ever heard - even with last nagging issue to resolve. Quality and customer service on the exact opposite end of the spectrum. |
That's good Charlie. I hope you will finally have some resolution to this. It will put your mind at ease. Please let us know what happens.
And NO, for the last time, I am not on the payroll. I am a surgeon. I don't need to moonlight as an audio dealer/distributor. LOL. The only reason I know any details in regards to this sordid little saga is that I am friends with the Weitzels and speak with them regularly. We talk about a lot of things ranging well beyond audio. I choose to support them because I choose to support them as does Glory/Gallant/Grannyring, etc.
My wife gets angry when she sees Audiogon yellow on the computer screen and says I am being distracted far too often by audio. Time for me to sign off.
Ciao.... |
"Quality and customer service on the exact opposite end of the spectrum. "
Well, I have had the best customer support from TRL. So like everything else, there are all kinds of customers and their satisfaction level but if you work with TRL people they can help you I am sure. |
Yes let me put the quality part of it in monetary context for you:
- A chassis that is fd up (back plate they used was too large, a top cover that I cant be tighten down due to a cap that's too tall to fit inside. Take a guess as to what that will do to resell value in my case!
- A ground problem (calling it that for now)
- Additional cost to replace the output stage tubes (the one that came with it were cheap, warn-out junk)
- Additional cost to ship and have a third party assess the problem
- Additional cost to fix (unknown at this point)
That's what "inherent value" means in my case. And they had absolutely no problem selling me the unit in this condition and making it worse in some cases along the way. There in lies by real beef with them. |
cdente:
I cannot take a guess because without the other party being able to repond there is no way to determine who is right and wrong. The problems that you mentioned do not sound too serious to me. The grounding problem is very common and can be fixed easily. The tube could be just bad luck, additional costs to ship and additional cost to fix are obviously going to incur if you showed it to someone else. You seemed to be pissed. So what is the objective here? Bash TRL or find a solution?
|
I cannot take a guess because without the other party being able to repond there is no way to determine who is right and wrong. How is the other party not able to respond? |
It seems that there are three very happy Dude owners.I wonder why they attack another owner that is not happy with the fit and finish of the unit he received.
If the unit cant be closed and new tubes are defective why weren't these things corrected by TRL. |
Look at my original post on this thread. That was my objective here. Mission accomplished. If you would read the post you can answer your own question on my plan to solve my remaining problem with the Dude. TRL took two cracks at attempting fixing it. Guess its not that easy after all. |
I'm going to get a measurements all the original tubes provided by TRL that I pulled just for a sanity check. The original output tubes were a disappointment rather than problems and TRL did provide me with a second pair early on in the debugging process. |
goldeneraguy: I will say it once: I am not attacking anyone. So hold your guns. |
cdente: Most of the time it is communication. I just wonder of you tried communicating with TRL. The danger of this beast called the Internet is that anyone can jump to the keybaord and start claiming to be victim (and 3-4 sympathizer will always start join the bash, it is so amazing). But without haring the other side, no conclusion can be drawn. |
Cdente is aware of the implications in sharing his experiences with the forum/internet. It's uncomfortable for him but has exhausted all his options to remedy the issues with the company and felt it's important to share his experiences with future potential customers.
Gallant_diva, if the quality problems are minor for a $3800 component, are you willing to swap Dudes with Cdente? I bet you will be singing a different tune. You have to respect someone for having a different expectation in a purchase. It's between them and the company ... This is an open forum and the company has the option to offer their side of the story. |
Hey,Diva_ with your reply you are certainly are acting like one.
I have no beef and am not a sympathizer.From reading the posts I had a question.Your reply is way off base.
Kinghifi is right on with his 3-22 post.
What is your reply to that. |
