Sgunther,
Yes, that's me. The guy in Atlanta thought long and hard about the Salvation, but decided a Rega P9 was a better fit for his situation. He should be very happy with it, as it's very much set, forget, enjoy the music.
Tom |
Sgunther, no, I'm a London boy, not an Atlantan. A little further away, but a lot closer to Vic (2 hours drive to bring the Salvation/Terminator over).
Isn't it always the way? Just as I'm melting into the sound of a vastly improved component upgrade, it's highlighting possible deficiencies in another (the cartridge).
So, the quest never ends: putting together a shortlist of carts to bring out further positives in this superlative front end. |
Tms0245 are you Tom from Fort Wayne and Spiritofmusic do you live in Atlanta? If it is the same person I also talked to Tom before i bought my savlation back in March. Tom mentioned there was someone in Atlanta that was interested in the Salvation and since i lived in Rome, GA he might want to cantact me. Anyway I never heard anything but thought i would try to connect the dots. |
Hi Tom, we've been in email contact for a while. Thanks for the compliments on the review, I tried to get a balance of fact and hyperbole just right. Not sure I'd like to make a habit of writing reviews, though!
Personally I'm coming to the conclusion that the Zu 103 may be the weak link in the chain. I'm considering the Soundsmith retipping OC/CL/ Ruby cantilever upgrade $500+ to the Zu 103, top of the range Soundsmith Straingauge $6500, Decca London Ref $4500, Garrott P77i $500 or even resurrecting my old Transfiguration Orpheus. |
In respect of the Reso Mat, it really seems to work on the Salvation/Terminator rig, and Vic believes it'll improve any tt. Not sure how it'll deal with v. warped lps however. |
Spiritofmusic,
Very nice review and I'm glad you're enjoying the Salvation/T3Pro. I've had mine here in the US since January with the Zu 103R and I am still thoroughly enjoying it. Vic has been great to work with. I changed my phono stage to a Zesto Andros PH1 recently and that combo is also working out very well.
I'm curious to know what other carts people are trying with success on the T3Pro as I hope to shop a little at RMAF this year for something a little different for my other arm wand. Both of mine are stock Tomahawks at this time.
Tom |
"Re clamps, rings etc, there really is no need, the Reso Mat does away with the need for these."
In reality, the ResoMat represents a contrary opinion vs clamps and rings. Thus it does not "do away" with rings and clamps; it represents a 180 degree opposite hypothesis about how to get the most out of an LP, one that I tend to favor too, altho I never went so far as to raise the LP completely off the platter, a la the ResoMat. It's worth a try. |
I'm currently using a 14g Zu 103 with no tracking issues, although arm must be set up carefully to deal with all carts. I think a fast neutral cart needs to get the best synergy. Hence my interest in the Soundsmith Straingauge. |
Sgunther, The short Tomahawk wand is too light for low-compliance cartridges like Shilabe. For those types I machined a heavier rear counterweight and several types of front counterweights that drop into the holes of the Tomahawk wand or slide along its flat surface. In addition, Vic has a special pivot that can be set up to support adjustable front and rear counterweights on a threaded shaft. Do something like this and the arm will work optimally with any cartridge. |
Hi S, currently using Zu modded Denon 103. A real giant killer at it's price, but am looking at a few alternatives. One is the Decca London Reference, main issue with this is phono loading is 47kOhms (ie MM setting) and my current phono stage doesn't have this resistance. The other two are the Garrott P77i, favoured by the tt's designer; again this is 47kOhms. I am intrigued by the Soundsmith Straingauge SG-200; pricey but it's speed and neutrality should be a match made in Heaven for this rig. |
Spirit, what cartridge are you using in your setup. I am currently using the ortofon jubilee which sounds really good but as is the case with most of us I am always looking for an upgrade. I did try the miyajima Shilabe which was not a good match. Currently considering the Lyra Kleos or Ortofon winfield. |
D, I've started learning v. fast with this rig; basically that one can have all the attributes of good vinyl ie tonality, dimensionality and transparency; with the advantages of good digital ie neutrality, stability and eveness of frequency response. How much is attributable to the tt only, and how much to the arm, I really don't know, since mine was a total upgrade as a package, whereas you will have upgraded to the arm before possibly to the tt. All I can say that for me the combination is a game changer, and I'd venture at least within a close call of tt/arm combinations 5-10x the price (in the non belt world that means custom replinthed 301s and SP10s, Dobbins The Beat, Grand Prix Monaco, Brinkmann Bardo, Wave Kinetics NVS, etc). |
Spiritofmusic, I'm a slow learner. My modified TNT is all that it can be, easily surpassing the current HRX that I've heard at shows. The Terminator arm with Reso Mat, both before and after modifications, is so good that I'm inclined to trust Vic a priori. Thanks for your review. Based on input from those I know & trust, my next step is either a refurbished Kenwood L07D or Salvation. |
Hi D, I bow to your preference in your system. Vic really believes that clamping, both central and periphery, deadens/dampens the sound, and certainly with the Salvation there appears no need to go beyond sole use of the Reso Mat, but all systems/listeners are not alike.
So, being such a fan of the arm are you giving serious consideration to upgrading to the Salvation as well? |
I have the Trans-Fi arm and the Reso Mat. Both are keepers. The arm is superlative. The mat benefits from light clamping, at least on my modified VPI TNT. |
Redglobe, I can't say whether I can be sure of hearing perfect pitch, I know classical and jazz musicians can. What I can say is that the Salvation is so speed stable compared to my belt driven Orbe that lead out grooves sound totally secure, and there is no wavering on piano note decay as lp replay goes on. |
Hi Redglobe, using a strobe shows no variation in quiet or heavily modulated passages. I'd love a Sutherland Timeline to put this to the ultimate test. Platter is up to speed a mere 3 seconds after start up and it takes substantial external force to slow the oversized heavy platter. This suggests high torque maintaining correct speed once set thru any groove modulation caused by stylus drag.
Re clamps, rings etc, there really is no need, the Reso Mat does away with the need for these. Counter intuitive I know, but there it is. |
Sgunther, I admire your total love for the Salvation/Terminator consigning the cd player out of your home, ha ha! The grand irony with me was that the cloying bass colouration which invades the mids on lp playback I had put down to the 'romantic warmth' of analog, and since cd playback until the mid 2000s always seemed sterile and clinical to me, it was always a welcoming euphonic colouration. However on acquiring the EMM Labs CDSA SE cd player finally I had digital with a really nice analogue vibe to it, and suddenly my belt drive tt (Michell Orbe/SME V) was in second place, mainly due to the EMM being so natural but without this colouration. Endless demos of belt drives (SME 20 and 30, TW Acustic Raven AC-3 etc) didn't provide a sound to definitively better the Orbe. Then after 2 years of investigating the idler drive/direct drive revival I've finally ended up with the Salvation, and without the bass time smear banished by it's direct rim drive, analogue replay is back in the box seat, relegating digital to it's rightful second place! However I still love the EMM and half my music collection on silver disc can't be found on vinyl, so she's staying. HOWEVER if tomorrow we all went back to pre-1983 and all my cd's were to be re-released on lp, hmm... |
Spiritofmusic
Glad you like the Salvation TT and Terminator arm. I bought the Terminator arm from Vic about two years ago and it was a big improvement over the full modified rega 250 I had used on my Michell Gyro II TT. I bought the Salvation TT from Vice about 3 months ago and wow the best way to describe it is the combination just makes music. As much as I like the Michell they are in differnet leagues. I finally sold my Meridian G08 CD player a couple of week ago because I had not even plugged in since the Salvation arrived. I also love the practical approach, everything has a purpose and it is very intuitive. Anyway I don't know about rim drive versus belt or vibration or linear arms versus traditional arm or resomat versus clamp, what I do know is it sounds very every good. Enjoy |
Spiritofmusic,
Thank you for the reply. Are you able to determine if the pitch is off when you listen to music (essentially, is the speed stable during play so that it maintains near-perfect pitch)? Do you use any center or ring clamps? |
Vic has gone thru the Garrard 301/401, Lenco L77 and Technics SL1210 and SP10 with upgraded plinths on the way to perfecting the Salvation. Independent reviews put the Salvation ahaead of a tricked out Garrard 301.
Redglobe, I listen to a lot of 70s progressive and fusion, quite a bit of acoustic incl jazz and classical, so the Salvation has to work over a wide range of genres and remain consistent. It's without doubt the most impressive front end I've yet heard. |
Spiritofmusic,
You are hearing the benefit of rim drive, pleased you are happy. I've read about this table and arm and found images on the web after another Audiogon post called my attention to this design. |
Mike, aiming to put pictures when my updated Zu spkrs/rack arrives in the 'system' section of A'gon. I worked out that to get a bit of this non belt magic I'd have to save for a few years more to get your NVS (or The Beat/ Grand Prix Monaco etc), or buy the Salvation now, so no contest. However, my admiration for your 'take no prisoners' tt is v.high. I'm glad that I managed to get across the really positive hike in sound quality I'm getting over my previous tt, which had given me great service over 12 years with upgrades. What I find fascinating is that my trepidation in removing a signature colouration of belt drive (time smear bass invading the midrange) has led to a major improvement in all aspects across the spectrum. I'm amazed by the percussive impact that high torque speed stability brings, really combining all the natural warmth of analogue with the good neutrality and stability of digital. Additionally, the linear tracking arm is, no exaggeration, making lead out grooves as uncompressed and noise free as the start of lp sides. Wow! My tech description is a bit lacking, Peterrayer, but Vic has successfully engineered a way to drain vibrations away. A link to his process can be found on the 'Lenco Heaven' website-go to 'other components' then 'other turntables' then 'from Lenco to Salvation'. Redglobe, yes, I am using the Reso Mat which comes as standard with the installation. |
Thanks for the thread and congratulations. I'm curious how the "vibrations from the drive are drained away from the platter and hence the stylus". With the rim drive contact, surely some vibrations hit the platter.
I read that someone is developing a turntable that uses rim drive to move the platter up to initial speed and then it disengages leaving a thread drive to only maintain proper platter speed. I presume he felt the rim drive imparted some unwanted vibration through the direct contact. |
Are you using Vic's Resomat? What kind of music do you listen too? |
Marc,
nice write up and sounds interesting. i'd love to hear it someday and see how it does relative to my beloved but departed Garrard 301/Loricraft.
we need pictures!
best regards, |
