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1) I think the number one importance is good ground beef with a nice, high, fat content. Results in much juicier and tender burger. 2) hand-formed, thick, patties are a must. The production line pre-formed patties are too thin, too dense, and improperly seasoned, if at all 3) Thick wedges of tomatoes, onion(or grilled), and a nice bed of crisp lettuce. 4) Toasted bun with some crunch to it Get those 4 things right and everything is just a cherry on top. Cheese, mayo, ketchup, mustard are all great, but if the four things above are wrong, then it's simply putting lipstick on a pig. So, why do so few get it right? For Southern Californians, the beloved icon In & Out Burgers is classic example of a mediocre product. Paper thin patties with no flavor where buns and condiments end up the being the primary thing you taste in each bite. You have to go off-menu to, at least, the custom "3 by 2" three patty burger to begin tasting meat and it doesn't get real until the "4 by" at which point that's a fairly expensive mediocre burger. |
I tend to like the burger grilled instead of pan seared as well. I agree 100% with D-Mob's analysis. I like a huge variety of condiments, but to be pefectly honest, if I can put some tasty guacamole (or just fresh avacado slices) and pico de gallo on my burger, with that super tasty grilled fat infused patty and a toasted/grilled bun..... K, it's Goode Co Taqueria and Hamburger for lunch today. Kirby at Westpark in Houston I have to go to LA (well Orange Co) again next week, so I'm taking BongFury's recomendations. I must admit, in the same vain, that waiting 1 1/2 hrs for hot dogs at pinks a couple of months ago was actually worth it, so I'm stoked about looking for a great LA Burger. |
Macdad In LA, you should check out Father's Office in Santa Monica?Brentwood. A small bar on 1018 Montana Ave. The owner, who is Korean, hand grinds the beef. If you head into the OC, you should check out TK Burger in Costa Mesa and the Crow Bar in Corona Del Mar. For good and original Mexican, I can recommend La Sirena in Laguna Beach. Email me if you make it South. Would love to join you. |
Macdad, If you're in Orange County, definitely hit The Hat(Lake Forest) for their Pastrami Sanwiches, fries, etc. Haven't tried their burgers, but their sandwiches are classic, old-style, meat bombs. Their hot dogs/chili dogs are great. If you make it to downtown LA, Nickel Diner for burgers and deserts, or Wurstkuche for exotic sausage sandwiches and Belgian fries along with imported beers. |
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My girlfriend just turned me onto The Hat 2 years ago and I'm kinda hooked when I get my car serviced at the Ford dealership a few yards away. Another old-style pastrami sandwich/hot dog/burger joint is Johnny's Pastrami in Culver City at Sepulveda & Washington Blvd right off the 405 Fwy. That joints been around since 50+ yrs and still going strong. It's not your good Jewish deli type of pastrami sandwich, but more of a street corner(which it is) joint french dip sandy. Not to mention Tito's Tacos is also right next door(if you don't mind a 30+ deep line 24/7). There's also another Johnny's Pastrami on Adams at Crenshaw & Adams Blvd just a few yards south of the 10 fwy. This one's been around since '56. Depending on how cosmopolitan you are, the area might be a little too dodgy for the more suburban eater. We also need to start talking LA barbecue soon, I've got a few good places on my regular rotation list. |
Darkmoebius "Tito's Tacos is also right next door.." Yum. When I had work in the area I'd either go to Tito's or an Indian cafeteria/store (20 pound bag of Basmati rice and fresh cardamon anyone?) kinda place further away (name escapes me) with tasty lentil and grain dishes, exotic fruit lassies, pistachio sprinkled desserts, and Bollywood posters on the walls. Loved the smell of spices walking in the door of some of those ethnic grocers. Ditto in NYC as well. Tito's chips fried in lard sure tasted good. Food pyramid be damned. |
J & J Burger Shack (barbecue) 5754 West Adams Boulevard, Los Angeles just East of Farifax & Adams Blvd. Good location for barbecue. Burgers are good and huge, but their beef ribs great. Pork's good, too. I also like their side dishes. Wood-smoked. Phillips Barbecue 4307 Leimert Boulevard, Los Angeles Vernon & Crenshaw Blvd west of 110 fwy. They have three locations - Leimert Park, Crenshaw, and Inglewood. I've only been to the original in Leimert Park. I usually get the $50 or $100 mix platter for office parties. The drive in on Vernon might scare some that aren't used to that part of town, and it is kinda 'hood. But, everyone is nice once you get there and the food is damn good. Across the parking lot is a great Jamaican cafe - Ackee Bamboo. Terrific meat patties and the Jerk, Curries, and brown stews are as authentic as you are going to get in LA. They get the complex mix of spices just right so that the heat does not obscure all the individual flavors. I don't break a sweat until the meal is 80% finished. Be prepared for Island Time or CPT(colored people's time), as my grandmother and parents used to say, in getting your food. Some days it's quick, others can take a few minutes. but it is always worth he wait. Honey's Kettle Fried Chicken 2600 E Alondra Blvd Compton, CA 90221 also a brand new location in re-vitalized Culver City 9537 Culver Boulevard Culver City, CA 90232 I prefer the Compton location - cheaper, more bare-bones, and closer to my house. The new Culver City shop is bright, clean, and very professional looking. Chicken is fresh, juicy, and a great crust. Their biscuits are out of this world. |
03-09-10: SamharI loves me some grub! Actually, my girlfriend and I love finding Mom & Pop places that deliver basic, good food, at reasonable prices. It's kind of our hobby. I've never heard of Woodies, thanks for the tip - it's on my list now. As for burgers do you remember Fudruckers in Torrance and Woodies flame grilled in El Segundo both very good burgers!!I grew up just a few miles away in San Pedro. Great place for summer jobs in college, too bad it didn't survive until the Rolling hills plaza was redone. Don't think I've ever hit Woodies in El Segundo. I guess I should have mention Texas Lucy's in Torrance at Sepulveda & PV Drive. My dad used to take me there as a kid. He said they had the best burgers in the area, but now at 45 yrs old, I realize he was just going to look at the waitresses in lingerie and chaps with their boobs pushed up and butts hanging out.(btw, they seriously toned down the "uniforms" sometime in the last ~35 yrs) |
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Kobbler King 3622 West Jefferson Boulevard (& Crenshaw) Los Angeles, CA 90016-4206 (323) 731-9286 Absolutely rocks. LA Times(?) had an article 5 years ago or so on the 28 year old "kid" who owns this tiny shack. He personally handmakes his cobblers of all flavors depending on which fruit is in season. They are fantastic. He makes maybe a hundred or so a day and they all sell out by afternoon. But, they also do Chicken Fingers, Hot Wings, Shrimp Scampi, Jambalaya, Grilled Shrimp, Cajun Shrimp, Red Snapper, Catfish, Gumbo. Tasty Q Bar-B-Cue is right around the corner on Crenshaw. Good BBQ & sides and great prices. BTW, bring your own turkey and they'll deep fry it for you while you eat. While your are there, just keep going south on Crenshaw to The Cobbler Lady(3854 Crenshaw Boulevard). A different style from Kobbler King, but certainly as good. I've never tried anything but the deserts there, and they are pretty damn good. |
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Here's a heads-up for you guys, for when you make burgers and steaks at home. Peter Luger's steak sauce is available online. This stuff makes all other steak sauces second fiddle, even pretty good ones like Virginia Gentleman. Everyone who's tried it so far agrees, there's nothing close. Another nice thing about it is that it has good synergy with John Henry's Pecan Rub, which is also a lot of fun. |
A couple of others I remember from growing up in L.A. Fat Jack's The Great Grill They may still be around in name; but are shells of their former selves. BTW, The Original Tommy's was so popular in the Seventies that it spawned a bunch of ripoffs (Tommie's; Tomy's etc.), some of which were pretty good; but none of them got the chili right. Some did have that one topping that I deem, after grilled onions and sharp cheddar, to be indespensible to a good burger: Avocado! |
D Mob, Tvad, Byegolly: great string so far. I have lived in LA for 51 years. My favorite hole in the wall places around town include Vince's Spaghetti in Ontario, a classic red sauce joint; Maria's in Glendora for guacamole smothered beef enchiladas; Donut Man in Glendora for strawberry doughnuts (always has at least six cop cars); Let's Be Frank for hot dogs at the Helm Building in Culver City; The Local Place in Gardena for Hawaiian style Kalbi Ribs; Din Tai Fung for dim sum in Arcadia; D'Elia's grinders in Riveside (best bread EVER); La Sirena in Laguna Beach for anything Mexican; and Memphis Soul House for gumbo in Costa Mesa. |
03-11-10: BongofuryAs I mentioned above: J & J Burger Shack (barbecue) 5754 West Adams Boulevard, Los Angeles just East of Farifax & Adams Blvd. There are two separate parts to J & J, yet the same shack. One is a burger joint, the other is just barbecue. Their barbecue is pretty damned good. Their beef ribs a big and meaty, pork falls off the bone, brisket & chicken is good, and hot links rock. I also like all their side dishes. They do real wood smoking and it split logs are stacked high just outside the patio. Tasty Q Bar-B-Cue 2959 Crenshaw Blvd. (one block south of Jefferson) Los Angeles, CA 90016 Good BBQ & sides and great prices. BTW, bring your own turkey and they'll deep fry it for you while you eat. Somehow, it always end up being Phillips or J & J for me, depending on where I am in town at the time. |
Bong-o, I'm not a big believer in this new high-end, designer, pizza fad that's overtaken LA. Like burgers, pizza is a food of the masses. It's one of the highest profit margin, and cheapest to make, items in all of restauranting. So, a $20 personal designer pizza that the size of an appetizer does nothing for me no matter how good it is. When I get a pie, I'm looking to my eat on. And yeah, I've been to Pizzaria Mozza and a few of the other new high-end places. They are good, but to tell the truth, none of them are any better than this little shack in Pedro - not from an ingredient and final taste POV, and certainly not from a value perspective: Pavich's Brick Oven Pizzeria (LA Times review) 2311 S. Alma St., (just north of 25th St, on Alma) San Pedro, (310) 519-1200 This is one of the great thin-crust pizza in Los Angeles. It is a true Mediterranean style pie, but from a Croatian perspective. A light, flakey, almost filo dough like crust with just the right amount of toasting to make it crackle and crunch. Quality toppings bursting with flavor. Terrific cheeses. Most of their pizzas are lightly topped, but they've lately begun to offering "everything but the kitchen sink" versions because that's what people are used to. (picture slideshow) And get this, their 18" premium pizza is........$18-20. That's right, a twenty spot, maybe even some change back. This sucker is a two or three meal affair, easy. And that's pigging out. Check the slideshow above. The only downside is that is take-out only. There is usually one or two fold-out tables out front during the day, if you are lucky. But, grab one and head down the street(Alma) 1 mile to a park with a 180 degree view of the entire coast from Malibu to Dana Point. |
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T Mob and Tvad: Thanks guys. TM: I agree with you. In Italy, where I have spent some time on sabbatical, you could buy a feshly made pizza for about $6 with real tomatoes from Naples and buffalo mozz. cheese. Simply made but choice tasty ingredients. Hard to imagine that fetches $20 here. I travel to NYC every other week, so I am a little spoiled, by all the great slice joints--Emporio, Lazzos, La Pizza Fresca, L & M etc... Lots of cool Neopolitan style pizza places are spreading up--Keste is particularly hot--made it to #1 in New York Magazine after only being open four months. My favorite non-NY pizza places is Serious Pie in Seattle and A16 in SF. Have not taken the time to drive up to Mozza as I live in Laguna Beach and it would be a hour and half haul on a good day. San Pedro is a easy 45 minute shot so I will check your recommendation out. I have spent a fair amount of time in Santa Maria (Jockos), Austin (The Salt Lick) and Memphis (A & R) sampling some great Q. I especially like a website called www.choppedonion.com that covers all the great backroad barbecue joints in the South. Tasty-Q sounds like my kind of joint. Just never think to go up to South Central. |
Bongo, My girlfriend grew up and still lives in Laguna up on the hill - Temple Hills Dr. So, I make it down that way fairly often. Have you tried Eva's(formerly Drew's) Jamaican on the south side of town. I haven't been in a long time, but I do remember it was as authentic, and good, as I've ever had in Southern California. Their jerk meats & Calaloo soup are out of this world. I seem to remember Mozambique being pretty good in it's prime, especially the chicken livers in Peri-peri sauce. Actually, Peri-Peri on anything is good. In Italy, where I have spent some time on sabbatical, you could buy a feshly made pizza for about $6 with real tomatoes from Naples and buffalo mozz. cheese. Simply made but choice tasty ingredients.Pavich's makes a classic "Margarita" just like in Italy and it is fantastic. But, most people will recommend the "Croatian". Half & Half would not be a bad way to go first time. |
D-Mob and Bong-o, I agree on the high end pizza being an oxymoron. I grew up in Chicago, where one of the few great foods was Pizza. I love Chicago, great town, but not the best food town in the US, especially in the low to mid price range. Anyway, Houston has the worst pizza in of anywhere I have ever been. Great food in general, huge diversity because of the huge foriengn population, but man, pizza here sucks. So we have gotte a few of those "High End" pizza places opening in very nice parts of town. I have a problem paying $40 for a pizza. Especially when I think of how you can walk into those little shops off the squares in Rome and get a great slice for about $2.50. Now that's pizza! I love NY pizza too, same type deal. Different than the stuff in Italy, and much different than the deep dish (can you say Gino's East) in Chicago, but equally as satisfying. BTW, my company's office in Cali is in Newport Beach, right off of MacArthur. Bongo I owe you at least lunch, but beer and dinner would be better, next time I am there, for my red card rant on the rap thread. I still think rap sucks though. |
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On the price of pizza... A good college friend (w/ an MBA) opened Zeppy's Pizza a fairly successful pizza joint in Hermosa Beach on the Pier Walk. Zeppy's makes a deep dish pie that is dough intensive somewhat like a Chicago, but not as greasy/buttery (it is California, after all). He told me that it cost $0.25 per slice for him to make a large pizza even with lots of toppings. So, I have a real problem with $15-25 "designer personal pizzas" (9") being hustled around Los Angeles these days. 03-12-10: TvadTvad, there are a couple of Middle Eastern places I have wanted to hit in The Valley for a long time. One of my best friends is Armenian and his dad is kind of a Lebanese/Armenian food fanatic. I suggest they check out Mantee in Studio City because of Jonathan Gold's LA Weekly review and they loved it. Another one is The Hummus Bar & Grill in Tarazana on Ventura Blvd. But, the one I really want to hit is Itzik Hagadol Grill on Ventura Blvd, it is supposed to be the best of all the Valley ME joints. |
D Mob: Speaking of food, I love four sushi places in LA/OC: Sushi Gen in Little Tokyo (near the Nickel), Sushi Shibucho and Ikko (both in Costa Mesa) and Sen Nari in Gardena. Macdaddy and Vernneal: I travel to Houston often, as Conoco is a client, and I have just been exploring your town. I like Goode Company (pecan pie is crack cocaine), Hugos, Kenny and Ziggys, Lupe Tortilla and the new Straits at the Hotel Sorella. Want to try Demeris, Becks and the Lankford Grocery next trip in. Do you have any other favorites? |
Bongo, I'd be happy to make the run wherever you've got free time hit dinner or lunch. For Sushi, we've got quite a few good places here in the Lomita/Torrance area due to the large Japanese population of Honda and Toyota executives from their Torrance/North America headquarters. For something different, try Kotosh in Lomita on PCH. They serve Peruvian Sushi - yes, the hybrid made famous by Nobu Matsuhisa. They've got traditional Japanese style sushi and an ungodly assortment of rolls. But, the Peruvian dishes seem to specialize in the sauces or marinades that accompany the fish/food. Many of them a flavorful variations of Yuzu and Ponzu sauces, but then they have this Special Spicy Mayonaise, Garlic, Lime and Soy Sauce that is served with several dishes like sushi and their fried rice - it is amazing. Their other Peruvian dishes like noodles, rice, seafood all very good. There are so many things on the menu, that it's best to go with 3-4 people so you get a wide variety of things to share. My favorite in LA used to be Sushi Sasabune on Sawtelle in Santa Monica, but they moved to a much larger location on Wilshire Blvd after 15 years and quality has gone down and price up, significantly. For good time, Terried Kitchen on Santa Monica Blvd, just west of the 405 fwy is my mainstay. Sushi is decent, but it's their grilled vegetables and Isakaya that help make it such a good meal. A couple can get out of there $50-70 and have a good meal. |
My favorites in Houston, like you I travel a lot for work, and I would put Houston right at the top along with San Fran (all No Cal really) and New York for food towns. There's a lot of disposible income in Houston due to low cost of living and lots of big business (energy, medical, technology, banking) and it's too hot to be outside for about 8 months, so everyone goes out to eat!! Top Tier Restaurants: Brennans DeMarco Nino's Cafe Annie Mark's on Westhiemer (my fav) Churrascos L'Combe D'Or Steak Houses: Pappas Brothers Vic and Anthony's TexMex or Mexican: Lupe Tortillas Goode Co Taqeuria Pappasitos (Little Pappsitos on Kirby is my fav) El Tiempo Ninfas (only the original on Navigation) Seafood: Goode Co Seafood Pappadeaux Vietnamese: Nit Noi Mediterrainian: Niko Niko's Ya Ya Mary's There are lots of great Vietnamese and Chinese restaurants around town, we have huge immigrant populations from those countries. I usually just go along with my buddies to their mom and pop favorites where you need to speak the languages, and eat what they order for me at those spots. If you ever have interest in those, I can get recommendations on those too. Come now before the heat starts back up next month!! |
