Thanks Newbee. Could you please recommend (now only for me...) another VIolin concerto edition? Not that I find anything wrong with the one you said, but I already have 4 or 5 violin concertos of Tchaikovsky, and although great, I would rather have more of Sibelius or another piece that I don't own. (ONLY if you feel the performance is as good as the one you recommended). Considering the artists involved I bet it is a great one.
thanks |
"Swan of Tuonela" is the one missing must have Sibelius tone poem I see on that recording.
His tone poems are the place to start with Sibelius no doubt though there is a lot more as well. |
Eelii08, Re Sibelous VC. I have two recommendations which present a contrast in both recording and performance, Heifitz's classic account on RCA Living Stereo and Anne-Sophie Mutter on DG with Andre Previn.
Heifetz's performance is very fast (26:45) and as suggested by the tempo, cool and crisp. It has been highly popular and praised. It should be part of any one's collection (who enjoys this VC of course). Recording wise, it is forward, the violin occupies a larger than normal space (not unusually so for recordings with featured instruments) and lacks a bit of clarity and depth. The LP of this was my introduction to Sibelius' VC. The latest SACD remix is quite good though, and includes a couple of other excellent VC's by Prokofiev and Glazunov. It should be on any one's shelf.
Mutter's performance tempo is more normal at 31:36, and the recording has a greater sense of clarity and depth with a more concert hall prospective. The performance is representative of the 'modern' Sibelius, icy, cool etc, yet very exciting. Mutter is a violinist of great skill and I recommend this performance highly. Additionally the CD includes other Sibelius Violin music.
You didn't ask, but I can't resist, if you like the Sibelius VC, when you have an opportunity listen to Khachaturian's VC. Another very extroverted piece with a modern but assessible, style. My very first VC years ago.
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I agree with the Heifitz recommendation for the Sibelius, I own it and it is indeed a classic account. Will have to check out the Mutter recording, Newbee's description sounds enticing. I also agree about the Khachaturian VC; there is an excellent Pentatone recording of this by Julia Fischer on a hybrid SACD, if interested--coupled with the Glazunoff and Prokofiev 1 concerti. |
I'm not sure I've heard that Heifetz performance but in general I would ALWAYS look to Heifetz and the classic RCA recordings to start whenever possible.
I am not a classical violin expert but I suspect Heifetz may be unmatched in his ability to affect one via his violin playing. |
Eelii- About the Petersen Death and the Maiden, yes, I am one of the reviewers. Since you are a dedicated classical fan, I urge you to seek that underappreciated Berlin ensemble out. I have several hundred chamber music recordings and am a big fan of some of the well-known quartets (like the Emersons, most of the time!), and the Petersen Quartet is the most impressive ensemble I have ever heard in my life. Their recordings of the Beethoven 13th, Ravel and "Death and the Maiden" are each the best interpretation I have ever heard. They also record for a full-on audiophile label. Anyway, that's my rave. |
Mapman, FWIW you are right, Heifitz will not leaved one unmoved. Unfortunately a lot of folks find his playing too cool and austere on occasions, where someone with a nice warm tone like Perlman might really tug on their heart strings. I like Perlman a lot! Generalities though are not too useful when it comes to specific selections. :-) |
Thanks newbee, reprince, mapman,
I very much like both Heifetz and Mutter ( most of the time). I have some living stereo SACDs and sound great in general, one including Brahms and Tchaikovsky VC played by him and are fantastic. I will order the living stereo first I think.
Re Khachaturian, i also like Fisher a lot and have maybe 5 or 6 mainly VC including a great series of 2 discs with schuberts complete works for violin and piano not so well known but fantastic. So I will also place an order for his VC and see.
What are they, romantic era?
Jult, I have already more death and the maiden I can remember right now.... But I am always ready to search for another one if it is that good. So will also place and order for this and will let you know. What is the other piece on disk? Or is it played alone? I think is Takacs quartet that has only this in their CD. As much as I like them per instance in their middle beethoven quartets double cd, their schubert quartet I did not thought iit was that special, regardless of the very high critics they got. |
I've been reading through this thread and it is fascinating. I'm not sure how to ultimately start with the five choices, so I'll just comment on a few items that caught my eye for now.
On the Mahler posts, I agree that Mahler is not the easiest composer to digest for a beginner, it has taken me years to acquire a taste for him. I very much like the overall SFO SACD cycle with Tilson-Thomas, good interpretations and top-notch sound, though there are indeed a lot of great performances out there that can top some of these interpretively. Newbee's suggestion of Zander on the Telarc label is very good, particularly in that, at least for a number of the recordings, Zander included a separate disc discussing the piece and his interpretation of it in the package. That's a great way to start to understand these very complex works. I find that I like his recording of the Mahler 9th (not the one to start with in the Mahler symphonies--I'd start 1, 2, 5, 4, and 6, before 9) the best of all the versions I've heard on record, it just connected with something in me and left me holding my breath at the end. And his Mahler 6 recording on Telarc has the unique feature of having both versions of the final movement in it, so you can hear the original version with its slightly different instrumentation as well as the third hammer of fate hitting the hero at the end, which was dropped from the version that is usually played and found on record.
I also noticed some mention of Chopin's piano music. There was a series of Chopin solo piano work recordings on the Connoisseur Society label by Ivan Moravec (which were released on CD by VAI) that are excellent recordings and some of my favorite interpretations. Plenty of other great recordings of Chopin's works and interpreters, but I think these recordings are worth getting if you can find them. |
I have been thinking about this thread and have come to the conclusion that it is an almost impossible task. I have more than 1000 classical CDs ranging from Renaissance polyphony to the present. I would, however, make two small contributions. For a Mahler newbie, his first symphony may be the most approachable and a good bridge to his later symphonies; there are many excellent recordings. The BIS recording (Nils-Erik Sparf and Drottingham Baroque Ensemble) is rarely mentioned, but is a worthy contender that brings a fresh approach to the Vivaldi Four Seasons. |
Thanks. I will aslo check the vivaldi.
As an aside, One question for those of you woth several 100s or even over 1000s disks.
How,do you keep track ofmall the discs and different recordings you have? Do you use a catalog program, database or similar? I may have maybe 200 tp 300, not sure and find it hard to keep track of all I have by performers, and so on. specially for second pieces on discs or when there are 2 or 3 small pieces as fillers. |
A music server helps to keep track but getting metadata right for classical CDs specifically to facilitate ease of access is somewhat time consuming compared to other genres. Automated services often do not do a great job tagging Classical albums so manual effort is involved to keep things up to date and consistent. 90%+ of my non classical CDs get tagged automatically pretty well by Windows Media Player automatically prior to ripping whereas only a minority of classical CDs do not require any manual editing prior to ripping. Some do not tag at all and info must be entered manually.
There are probably other tools/services that handle classical CDs better I believe. |
I have classical CDs arranged by composer - ignoring the minor fillers. I have a separate section for CDs that have equally important compositions by more than one composer - arranged by "instrument." For example, I have a section of string music for CDs such as the Heifetz recording of both the Beethoven and Mendelsohn violin concertos, string quartet anthologies, boxed sets of works by a single artist, etc. Not perfect, but it seems to work. What does get lost is a "single" CD of works by obscure composers that I tend to forget. |
Ok, i would need a few more responses, in a list format if possible, to try to do a first compilation. Anyone else willing to contribute? |
no doubt there are some classical music experts amongst the many audiophiles on this forum, but...
wouldn't it be a lot easier to visit some classical music forums?? |
A) 5 Recommended Masterpieces and CD Recordings
1) Ludwig van Beethoven Symphony no. 3 in E-flat major Op. 55 'Eroica'
'klemperer the cologne years vol.1'
Andante naïve
and/or
Paavo Järvi Beethoven Symphony no.3 Eroica/Symphony no.8
The Deutsche Kammerphilharmonie Bremen
RCA Red Seal
2) Wolfgang Mozart Symphony no. 41 in C-major K. 551 'Jupiter'
VIENNA PHILHARMONIC (1972-1981) Mozart
Krips Oistrakh Pollini
Andante
3) Johannes Brahms Symphony no. 4 in E-minor Op. 98
CELIBIDACHE Müncher Philharmoniker
Brahms 2,3&4
EMI CLASSICS
4) Ludwig Van Beethoven Violin Sonatas no. 5 in F-major Op. 24 'Spring' and Sonata no. 9 in A-major Op.47 'Kreutzer'
Beethoven Complete Violin Sonatas
Augustin Dumay Maria Joao Pires
Deutsche Grammophon
5) Gustav Mahler 'das lied von der erde'
'the song of the earth'
EIJI OUE
Minnesota Orchestra
Michelle DeYoung John Villars
Reference Recordings
B) My 5 Favorite Composers and Some of Their Great Works.
I did not make this list of composers or works associated with them in any particular order. Doing so would require making incomparable comparisons.
1) Johann Sebastian Bach
'Brandenburg Concertos' 'Goldberg Variations, Toccata and Fugue,
'The Art of the Fugue'
and the Organ recordings of Helmut Walcha
2) Ludwig van Beethoven
The 9 Symphonies, The Orchestral Overtures, The Piano Sonatas, The String Quartets, The Violin Sonatas, The Cello Sonatas, The
Piano Trios
3) Johannes Brahms
The 4 Symphonies, The Violin Sonatas, The Cello Sonatas, The Piano Trios, The Clarinet Sonatas and also those adapted for Viola, The String Quartets, The Piano Raisonne', German Requiem
4) Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
The Piano Concertos, The Later Symphonies especially starting with the Haffner, The Violin Concertos, The Haydn String Quartets, Don Giovanni, Le Nozze de Figaro, Cosi fan tutte, Missa Solemnis in C,
Requiem in D-minor
5) Franz Joseph Haydn
A little bit of research goes a long way. Wonderful Symphonies, String Quartets, Piano Sonatas and Choral pieces.
C) I own roughly 500 classical CD's and roughly 100 classical Vinyl (monophonic) Records. |
the question posed is so subjective, and there will be disagreements.
i think a better approach is to listen to many composers and form your own opinion.
listing composers and compositions without a rational basis is an exercise in futility.
it is interesting however, that the renaissance period and music from the 20th century is under represented.
for what it's worth, i think the renaissance and baroque periods are the most interesting in the development of classical music.
since we are asked for favorite composers, let me ignite a controversy, by saying, mozart, handel and beethoven are overrated.
to me bach is the greatest composer, period.
music from the classical period is boring. mahler and bruckner are boring.
after bach, all other composers are 2nd rate. his creativity is unmatched. his skill as a keyboard exponent is unmatched by any other composer.
if i had to select another composer it would be domenico scarlatti, another prodigious writer for the harpsichord.
i am afraid that i could not recommend music by any other composers. for example, although i like the 4 seasons, vivaldi was not creative.
mozart had a brief creative period and his most important work was the divertimento k 136. but, like other composers, his music can also become boring , harmonically. |
agree with Mrtennis. attempting to compile a "best of" list for a multifaceted genre spanning several hundred years is a total exercise in futility.
Bach is indeed one of the greatest composers - certainly during the Baroque period & also in the historical context, but to say no other composer can matched his creativity is just ridiculous. creativity comes in countless forms... is Picasso more creative than da Vinci? how abt van Gogh vs. Albert Einstein?
we're all influenced by our environments & the times we live in. music - as with all arts - is a reflection of culture & society. in the context of western civilization, this has evolved from religious/ceremonial, to formalized entertainment (following the rise of bourgeois class & humanistic thought), to breaking down these formal structures & self-expression (democratization), to eventual fragmentation. the important composers either spearheaded, or significantly contributed towards these changes (otherwise none of us would even know their names).
since this post was initially started with the intention of helping those relatively new to this genre (& wanting to build a collection), my recommendation's to listen to whatever speaks to you, then assemble a collection from there. don't jump around with all these random recommendations, because you're only going to confuse yourself.
many classical newbies are accustomed to music 3 to 6 mins in length, so the longer movements can (initially) be a little daunting & difficult to concentrate thru. this is normal. your attention span will expand as you become familiar with a piece. maybe this is why some say just keep listening if you dont get it. OTOH, there are pieces I dont get no matter how many times I listen... ;-) |
I agree with Mrtennis about Bach and the lack of representation of early music composers (Purcell, Tallis, etc) in this thread. However, even Bach had his moments of self-reference and repetition; and lovers of symphonic and/or operatic music must look beyond Back.
That said, if the goal is to provide novices with an introduction to the world of classical music, the argument can be made to include a wide range of periods, genres, and composers. One suggestion is the recent release of Mercury Living Presence: The Collectors Edition (Ltd. Edition). The sound is superb, the price is ridiculous, and there is a lot to like (or ignore). . . although early music is still not part of the package. |
A a relative newbie to classical (about 7 years), I won't tell anyone what classical they should hear first, or top performances, etc. I will just list what classical music got me started:
Chopin-nocturnes...Arthur Rubenstein.
Korsakov-Scheherazade
Bach-Cello Suite 1.....Janos Starker.
Anything Mozart.....piano concertos, requiem, wind serenade. |
Hi Devilboy, try Ivan Moravec's Chopin Nocturnes. Fantastic. |
"One suggestion is the recent release of Mercury Living Presence: The Collectors Edition (Ltd. Edition). The sound is superb, the price is ridiculous, and there is a lot to like (or ignore). . . although early music is still not part of the package."
YEs, I bought this recently and agree 100%. No better single place to dive right in for a better price!
Dorian label is one of my prime gotos for quality early music recordings. |
I can't argue Bach as perhaps the greatest and most prolific composer in terms of quantity, quality, and mass appeal.
A lot of lovely classical music up until the later 19th century tends to be somewhat homogenous, ie more similarities than differences. THings started to become much more differentiated around the time of Mahler (who has been an initially under-appreciated, belated trend setter in recent years) in the latter 19th century. Similar to the trend with jazz that started in the post WW2 era through today. Great for variety and art in general, bad for mass appeal, just like modern day progressive rock. |
Thanks Goofyfoot for your list. Devilboy same for yours.
Regarding Bach, I think he has some great compositions including masterpieces no doubt. not sure though he would be one of my top picks, but that is just personal liking and subjective. It is what the mayority syas that is important within this context.
I am no expert in history of art, let alone history of music. But I remember I read somewhere, some book I think, where the writer made a point and gave facts acusing Bach of copying Vivaldi, and giving examples of different pieces where he made comparations and dates. He argued that the real genius was in fact Vivaldi.
Saying Beethoven, Mozart are over rated is for sure a strong sentence. I do not think so. handel is great but I do not think he would be on a list of 5 top composers of history of classical music of most people, while the other 2 probably would.
In any case we will see |
From the NYTimes. . .
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/23/arts/music/23composers.html?pagewanted=all |
Listed in my System, the Dozen Of No Return |
Thanks 11flat6. Can't wait to investigate. |
If early music is of interest, then I personally would choose to study early composition styles and their locations of origin. The French did not write in the same way as the Germans or the Italians. When I took music history back in the day, Gregorian Chant was barely touched upon when compared its level of activity and its level of importance to the Catholic Church. There are people who spend their whole lives making sense out of that antiquated musical notation. Having an advanced knowledge of music theory, counterpoint and orchestration is a great asset but it isn't necessary for appreciating Mahler, Beethoven or Ligeti. My personal collection would be considered by most standards esoteric but I like labels that are off the beaten path and I've spent a long time exploring composers, performers, conductors and ensembles.
If you're the academic type, Norton Publishing comprises excellent anthologies of music with important excerpts taken from the appropriate scores. Norton also just offers great books on the arts in general. Also, the 'Harvard Dictionary of Music' is essential because it will help anyone who is trying to navigate their way around a music library.
Believe it or not, there a people who will almost always listen to opera, or to solo pipe organ, so I would generally recommend to folks that they first do a little soul searching and then try to make that connection to what speaks to them the most. However, as far as who is important, that list would comprise at least 50 names but I want to add 2 composers who were not mentioned; Dieterich Buxtehude and Dmitri Shostakovich. |
I just recently purchased Bethoven's bicentennial collection from a goodwill store. I have only made it through one album of ten and am quite pleased. I also have three albums of Tchaikovsky's best work. |
I nominate the Mahler 8th with Bernard Haitink and the Royal Concertgebouw on Phillips for my top choice. |
I just purchased Bethoven's Bicentennial set (ok two parts of it or ten albums worth). Anywho, from what I have heard so far, I am very impressed with the musicality of his work. I also have three collections of Tchaikovsky, which I got into when I watched V for Vendetta (who hasn't been influenced by a movie soundtrack?). That is my two cents to this forum. |
Bach Bach and more Bach,then some Vivaldi,Boccherini,Beethoven,Villa Lobos,Bartok, |
11flat6: I YouTubed Ivan Moravec last night and all I can say is wwwooooowww! His playing is so beautiful. I kept clicking video after video....must have been over an hour. I MUST find some recordings. Here in 2012, it's becoming more and more difficult to find recordings in the digital medium. Makes me want to get a turntable....Hmmmmmmmm...... |
Most all of Moravec's recordings are on CD's on the Suppraphon label - check them out. I bought a bunch of them on sale only to find out I already had most of them on earlier labels. Bummer. |
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For purchasing classical music CD's and DVD's, ArkivMusic.com is the top website with recommendations, biographies and reviews.
http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/main.jsp |
I was in on the post from the get-go. I purchased Mozart Great Piano Concertos Nos 20, 21, 23, 24 & 25. I ail give this a run on Friday night.
My question is why no mention of Rachmaninoff? Is it the different era? |
'My question is why no mention of Rachmaninoff? Is it the different era?'
One critic said he, Rachmaninoff, wrote Movie theme music.
Killed him for me.
Cheers |
Donjr, I don't know why others did not mention Rachmaninoff, but since this thread has taken a sharp turn away from the original thought of putting together a list for beginners, what the hell.
Rachmaninoff is a (very) late romantic composer. The music is, generally speaking, (over)long but very musical. Not very often, if ever, atonal or dissident. Most folks do like his second symphony and his 2d or 3d piano concertos, for these reasons I think. Nice stuff, very assessible.
Personally I find his Symphnoy #1 and his last 'symphony' Symphonic Dances, especially the latter, much more enjoyable - more energy, much more! I think his Symphonic Dances should be in everyones library. A beginner coming here would love it just for the audio alone. It is exciting! I like Ashkenazy on London or Temirkamov on RCA. |
I think that had the public better accepted Rachmaninoff's 1st Symphony and 1st piano concerto when they were first performed, he might have gone in a different musical direction than he did. The first piano concerto in particular is not a particularly romantic work--worth a listen. Personally, I like all types of music, and would not want to have been without his later piano concertos and the Symphonic Dances as well as his earlier works. For Symphony No. 1, there is a Naxos recording (cthat is very good and includes his Caprice Bohemien, which you might mistake for a Czech composer's work. I would also recommend the Previn cycle of Rachmaninoff's symphonies on EMI. And finally, for Piano Concerto No. 3, I would suggest you get Martha Argerich's live performance on Phillips from 1995, it is as passionate a performance as there exists on record. |
Reprince, Agreed. Because of my aversion to long drawn out performances of the mid-symphonies and piano concertos I have enjoyed Pletnev's versions of Sym 2 & 3 and Leif Ove Andsnes Piano Concertos #1 & #2. If you haven't heard the PC's you should if you can. FWIW. :-)
BTW, for folks looking for general recommendations Askenazy's LSO set on the London label is at the top of the heap. And for those looking for a more traditional set of the Piano Concertos Wild's performance with Horenstein on Chandos or Chesky is a classic and my favorite, followed by Ashkenazy/Previn's set. |
Hi Donjr, you bought the mozart from my initial list. i certainly hope you like it. Think is a very good point to start listening to mozart and see if you like it to explore farther. The recording and performance of ashkenazy is superb.
If you read farther down on the list of 5 composers I made you will find Rachmaninov. He is romantic era, late. Went well into early XX century. In any case also a master in my opinion. I would start with his piano concertos 2 and 3. Would also recommend Ashkenazy performance. There are 2 recordings of Ashkenazy of these performances. Both are great but the older one, when he was younger of the concerto 3 and also 2 is just incredible in my opinion. I think that is the one I recommended for both pieces. You can really tell he was younger in his playing and his playing at the time I like it better for these 2 particular pieces.
There is a movie that goes around his cojcerto for piano 3 and the technical dificulty and challenge it represents for the piano performer. I remember reading somewhere that it is one ofnthe most dificult to perform, if not the most, piano piece and that many refused to perform it. i think the movie was called Shine and got an Oscar award If I recall correctly as best movie. It is a fantastice movie and I also recommend it.
Regarding mozar you bought, I would start with 21. You will love it I hope, and will probably be familiar with it, than maybe 20, and take it from there. You now what? i have not listened to that record for a long while andI I am just now going put it in my stereo. I want to listen to it all but specially second movement of.21st came to my memory... |
There is only a difference of 8 years between the age of Sergei Rachmaninoff and Bela Bartok yet their composing styles seem worlds apart. If your digging into the Rachmaninoff catalogue, the piano trios are nice but often overlooked. The copy I own is on Hyperion by the Moscow Trio. Also, the Bartok piano concertos are beautifully written as are his string quartets. Géza Anda was the premier Bartok interpreter for the piano and he brings the Bartok piano concertos to life on a number of recordings. Géza Anda was extremely popular during his lifetime but has become largely overlooked since his passing in 1976. |
