99.9% of AVRs have the very cheapest quality build power supplies made-in-Chin that simply don't compete with any quality build audio amp. they are built to a very very low price-point and resulting build quality point. Add to this the crap build quality quotient because it is Chi-fi.......
accordingly,
(1) high end power cords are not going to provide you with any added video or audio step up in performance..... resist the illusion that high end power cords are any silver bullet. There are a buzzilion PCs up to a $150 pricepoint that handily best the POS quality stock power cords but max out performance wise in video.
(2) contemporaneously, with the absence of a quality build power supply, the introduction of a power conditioner won't provide you with any further improvement past (1)
what will I'll add the best improvement for AVR and display units:
--run a dedicated power line line from the breaker box to proper hospital grade (or better) wall receptacles and just plug it in directly. |
@akg_ca thanks for your reply. Seems like poor power supply would benefit from power conditioning more than a high quality supply? But, according to the manufacturer "Unlike most AV amps the AVR400 has a huge toroidal transformer that gives it enough current to tame even the most difficult of speaker loads." While there is undoubtedly hype here, the amp measured well in a review test bench, and sounds more accurate to me compared with Onkyo, Denon, Pioneer, etc.
Already using an after market cable directly to hospital grade outlet fed by dedicated 10 AWG, 20 amp line. |
I should have read your response to my thread about power cords first, I see where you are coming from. |
I've heard the
PS AUDIO Dectet Power Center is a great bang for the buck but every conditioner I've tried killed the dynamics.
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The Arcam looks like a decent unit. http://www.soundandvision.com/content/arcam-avr400-av-receiver#oT8I4Md9o6eCKlAx.97 Every power conditioner that I've tried restricted the dynamics or soundstage of an amp, (But I have never tried a high-end, high-priced regenerator). Arcam does not list the specs for current, only nominal power (presumably into 8 ohms)...
Output power 130W p/c (2 channels driven)
Output power 90W p/c (7 channels driven)I would think that you would want unrestricted power on demand, and that would come from your 20A dedicated line. If you have steady line voltage into your house with no "brown outs" in your area, plugging into the wall receptacle may provide the best performance. I would be more concerned with good surge protection from a non-current limiting power strip, i.e., Furman offers a power strip with EMI/RFI noise filtering. |
Unless you have wild power swings because you live in an old apartment or the like, where a power conditioner assists in flattening out the swings with an element of surge protection, there is no reason to introduce a power conditioner.
as properly highlighted in the prior posts, they are just detracting and limiting filters that detract from audio performance.
As AVRs already suffer from lousy cheap power supplies, the filtering effects are magnified to the negative, not the positive. |
I agree with AKG. I’d move up to higher quality separates before spending a lot of money on power conditioning, especially since you already have a dedicated line. But if you have fluctuating power coming into the house I’d consider something with power regulation to help protect electronics, especially since Arcam products already have their fair share of reliability issues. I use an APC H15 and it shows me when it’s boosting and cutting power due to the fluctuations we have here, and it also eases stress on components with a sudden loss of power that also happens here frequently. I will say it gives nice peace of mind knowing it’s working. I have a fairly mid-fi 2.1 HT setup I cobbled together, but my neighbor uses the same conditioner in his Bryston/Martin Logan setup and hasn’t noticed any ill effects from using his APC. Hope this helps and best of luck.
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I have used a PSaudio P10 with my AVR and it worked well
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@akg_ca
I agree that AVR’s in general are engineered to a lower standard than a typical "separates" configuration, but to make such a blanket statement that "99.9 % of AVR’s are Chi-Fi garbage" is both incredibly arrogant and demonstrably false. Manufacturers like Arcam, NAD, Anthem, etc. are good examples, as they themselves manufacturer separate preamp processors and amplifiers in addition to their AVR lines, and in the case of their flagship model AVR’s, many of the components are often sourced from their higher tiered brethren. I’m happy for you to have the financial means to purchase top-end gear, but comments like that are neither constructive nor conducive to the environment that Audiogon tries to promote, which is a camaraderie among audio enthusiasts, not class segregation between wealthy audio enthusiasts and those with more modest financial means.
That being said, I do agree with your statement that many power conditioners on the market are far too restrictive and essentially trade current delivery for filtration, which is obviously not what you want for an amplifier. However, you are yet again making the mistake of putting out blanket statements, in this case about power conditioners, that are NOT universally true; many options from the likes of APC, Furman, AudioQuest, etc. have high current banks that largely mitigate this issue and feature either battery backups (APC) or current reservoirs (a whopping 90 amps in the case of AudioQuest’s Niagara 7000) that supplement the power coming out of the unit to provide plenty of headroom for demanding source material. If after all that has been taken into consideration you still feel that you are better off plugging straight into the wall, then all I can say is that I hope you have very clean power in your neighborhood and don’t ever suffer a damaging surge to your expensive equipment.
-David |
@savdllc, thanks for your constructive input. I think folks may be missing my point which is this: is there a trade off of power conditioner use for an AVR balancing potential lost current delivery for amp(s) against cleaning up digital noise back out to AC service from processors in the AVR? Even if you have super clean power from the wall, the AVR digital processors my have negative effects that could affect performance of other components driven from the same outlet/circuit. |
@knownothing ,
I understand your concerns now. And to answer your question, yes, there is a trade-off. See, if you were using a separates configuration, you would want to run the amplifier into one of the lower filtration high-current banks to prevent castrating the current delivery, while you would run the processor into one of the lower current high-filtration banks that are designed for constant voltage source equipment. Thus, if you are running an AVR, you would want to prioritize the current delivery needs of the amplifier over filtration of the processor circuitry by using one of the high-current banks. That being said, the high current banks still do provide filtration over just plugging into the wall, so you are still getting benefits there, plus the peace of mind in knowing that voltage dips and spikes won’t damage your gear. Hope this helps to answer your question.
-David |
@savdllc, yes that is helpful, thanks. |
I think your 1st effort should focus on 'isolation' of both digital and analog from insidious 'ac ground noise' and 'each other'. That will give you the most improvement for your money. Enjoy. |
@ptss thanks, how specifically do you suggest I do that? |
Does your AV receiver perform digital processing? |
Yes, for sound. Video I believe is just passed through to the monitor. |
With digital in the same unit as your preamp and amp you can't isolate them. However isolation from the noise on your ac line may be quite beneficial. Perhaps audition an Equitech 2Q to gauge the benefit. |
To your original question, I don't feel your system will
find any problem with the amount of current available from the 2Q.
Countless studios use them with vastly more current draw. |
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