Time to upgrade DACs

Well, I stepped up and bought a pair of Revel 228Be speakers. Now I am looking for amplifier recommendations to drive these beauties.  I have two YBA Integre DT (dual transformers), that I will bi-amp them with but am concerned that the Revels will want a more than 50 WPC (X2).

One thing I am curious about....your original question around DACs.  Do you need a headphone amp?  Or are you just looking for a new DAC?  If you just need a DAC I might have an idea.  

In the price range you’re looking at for speakers, one usually invests in beefier amplification. Keeping the YBA and swapping the speakers is going to severely limit your speaker options. That isn’t to say you can’t find a match that suits your tastes, but if you’re spending $3k+ on speakers I’d typically expect complementary amplification that can deliver at least 150w - 200w.

I’m still of the opinion that adding tubes to the signal chain may satisfy your requirements. To be honest, I don’t think you’re looking for neutral sound. You want exactly what tubes deliver, large images and a warm/full presentation. Kenrad VT231/6SN7's will deliver exactly what you're looking for.

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/black-glass-kenrad-6sn7s-take-the-cake

Edit: Not sure where you live but I think it’s worth your while to hit up the local hifi shops and take your DAC with you. It might help you identify what components in your current setup aren’t fitting your desired sound profile.

The Scansonics have an 89dB SPL.  At 8' from the speakers, peak output would be ~104dB, at 10' 102dB.  That is plenty for music for normal to reference listening.  A little light for home theater.  

Thanks for the feedback and advice. Sounds like the consensus is to upgrade the speakers and put off the DAC upgrade for now. That said I should have about $5,000 or so to invest in speakers. My YBA Integre DT (2) are 50-watts per channel class A integrated which I love and plan to keep. (caps are redone, etc). So the new speakers will have to fairly efficient. 
Suggestions so far are:  Scansonic 3.5B,  LSA 20 Statement,  Nola KO also intrigued by the Tekton DEsign Moabs.

Please weigh-in on these and others and thanks once again for your ideas and experience...much appreciated. 

In a room like yours, a side firing woofer and the right tweeter can do some extraordinary things.  The Scansonic MB-3.5B could be a pretty awesome speaker for you.  I first listened to them in a room that is about 15' x 25' with 15' ceilings. 

Placement is critical.  You would want to have them 8-9' apart and a solid 2' of space behind them.  That will leave 3-3.5' to the side of either speaker and your walls are treated.  

The scansonics have "raidho DNA" and regardless of what you think of Raidho's pricing, the tweeter they put in these speakers is unreal.  If you are looking for imaging and an extraordinary, three dimensional soundstage...and you have the right room, nothing beats Scansonic and Raidho.

The tough part for most people is the right room.   When you get the placement right, when the soundstage comes together it is immersive with the best imaging I have heard short of my own speakers.  

PM me if you are interested.  I am an authorized scansonic dealer and would even take your speakers on trade to make it super easy for you to upgrade.  Would need to talk condition but a very healthy trade allowance (~$1500) could make it an interesting option for you.  

I could also work with you on a Chord Qutest as a potential solution for your DAC.  Chord's to me have a more natural sound than traditional chip DACs.   

i vote with others - speakers, and reclocker

Sounds like you’re after larger scale and more impactful dynamics while maintaining excellent imaging. If that’s the case I think upgrading speakers makes the most sense as the GPs are on the small side and physics matter. Underwood HiFi is selling their new LSA 20 Statement speakers normally $7k/pr. for only $3999/pr. for a limited time, and they offer a 30-day trial period. If you don’t mind used, there’s a nice pair of Nola KOs for sale for $4500 ($12k retail) that with their multiple dipole drivers will yield a large soundstage with great dynamics and excellent imaging. Either of these would likely be outstanding choices. Best of luck.

You are in "upgrade bug".

But 2500$ will not make huge difference in the sound.

Your SF speaker is still good.

How about getting Schitt Freya+ in front of your SS amps.

It will give nice warmth and more 3D soundstage.

You can also have fun through tube rolling.

Nice vt231 tubes can be had around 100$ from Ebay.

I am having lot of fun through Raytheon vt231 that cost me 65$ through Ebay auction.

"I left my heart in San Francisco" sounds realistic through tube pre in the chain.

Thomas

As others have mentioned, swapping the DAC isn't going to get you 'bigger, fuller sound'. Having said that, I'd consider the RME ADI-2 FS as a DAC because it has a 'loudness' feature that may provide the bass you're looking for at lower volume levels.

The SF speakers are probably the weak link in your chain. I had a single REL T7 and was pretty happy with its performance. If anything, I'd expect dual T9i's to fill in the low end pretty well.

Based on your desire to add 'fullness' and good imaging, what you probably want is a tube preamp. Tubes will add warmth (fullness) and increase the image size. However, images may be more vague with less pinpoint accuracy than an all solid state signal chain can provide.

In regards to imaging, perhaps consider speakers with ribbon tweeters. IMHO good ribbons image far better than any dome tweeters I've heard.

Also, is it simply a lack of bass that you're missing or does your current setup simply lack warmth? What setup were you running in the past that makes you think your current system lacks fullness? Could it be your current system is simply more honest than what you were previously used to an you actually prefer a system that shelves the high frequencies?

Rather than solve the dilemma, speakers or DAC, let me suggest a 2-300$ alternative: a super re-energizer & reclocker like the one I use. (Fantastic little device, kudos to my dealer!) You should expect a fuller sound with better hi & low-end extension from your current DAC

The reclocker lives between the source and the dac and cleans USB noise, energy, & phase issues. -
In fact, I now daisy-chained two 3Rs and gave up on replacing the DAC (for now).

Check the improvement such a device makes and decide if you still want to change the DAC. Even if you spring for a new DAC you will still keep the reclocker -- it is useful even on a 100k MSB (I tried my 3R on one). Regards

I dragged home the Marantz HD DAC1 and thought it was nice. Not knowing your speakers I would agree it might make sense to sell them off with the subs, take that money along with the $2500 and visit speakers. No doubt a better DAC may get you what you’re looking for but speakers may get you more of it for less. I recall the Marantz has a nice full, warm analog presentation so I question it’s the component to address first.

I’m sure your SF are no slouches either for the money but no doubt differences between DACs can be splitting hairs but I’ve never compared speakers with each other and couldn’t hear the difference immediately. 

I am looking for a bigger-fuller sound with really good imaging. I have heard a lot of good things about the Moabs on this forum and elsewhere, but have not heard them.
So your correct it would be a bit of a crap-shoot... Not sure what to do but got the "upgrade bug".

First, what type of improvements are you looking for over what you have now, and what sound characteristics of system performance overall are most important to you?  Without that info this is all just a crapshoot. Also, the Sonus GPs are good speakers but radically different in design and sound from the Moab. What has pointed you in that direction?

I'm generally not in the speaker-first camp, however, in your case...given the 'provenance' of your Sonus Faber speakers...moving to something like the Tekton Design Moabs that you are considering, is the wiser choice.

Start there, as @jriggy  is correctly pointing out.

You get a much bigger percentage of change with new speakers than you would a new DAC.