Hi Photon46,
Congrats on your Piano Cera, excellent sound performance pair of Jewel.
On your question,there's a news on Tidal website on the introdution of Piano X-tender during the upcoming munich hifi show in 3 weeks time.
Thats probably is the answer to the extreme lows for the Piano Cera/diacera.
Certainly something exciting to look forward on the show.
Cheers |
Be patient and wait to see what the Tidal's Piano X-tenders look like. They will probably be the answer to your lower octave desires and will most certainly integrate better with the Cera's. |
By the way, do your Cera's have the Variogain where you can boost the bass? |
Rower30's current thread "High Quality Subwoofers - which one" has a lot of helpful information about a number of the subs I'm considering. In the past, I have integrated a sub successfully with Magnepan 1.6's in the same room and location I'm considering now. I was aware of the soon to be released Piano X-tender but I'm assuming that it will be as pricey as the rest of their products. Frankly, I doubt my budget will stretch that far after buying the Pianos :-( |
Yes, my set has three vario-gain adjustments for bass and I'm using the setting that has the most bass enhancement. As I was listening last night, I thought the bass of the Pianos is so "almost right." If the F3 point were only something like 28hz. instead of 32hz., I doubt I'd ever quibble over this. |
Since you have just gotten your speakers, may I suggest that you play around/get to know them for a bit more prior to hastily deeming of needing a sub. As I see, you are currently driving them with a 30w/ch amps which was probably a great match with your previous speakers having its own self-powered subs. Although I agree that not all watts are created equal, but as other Tidal owners will soon attest, they do like power/current to really get the bottom end going. In general, a good hundred watters (with exceptions of few overbuilt highest-end esoteric amps) I think is the minimum if you want to exploit/capitalize on their full potential.
In my case, by alternating three different amps, I got three different resulting bottom end responses. And interestingly, as of recent, by simply swapping a single PC to amp, an audio buddy who frequents my home thought that I have added and hidden a subwoofer when playing his favorite music. What I'm trying to get to here is that the Tidal speakers are so transparent that they act almost mirror like in reflecting what's preceding them. So, unless your room is on the largish side, or that this system double function for your HT use--with the right amp+cabling combo, I'm pretty sure you could work towards squeezing that last few hertz that you so desire out of your Piano--without subs.
Not the answer to your original question, but just a thought for your consideration. Hopefully more Piano owners will chime to weigh in on their experiences.. Good luck! |
Thanks for your insights Bvdiman. I have definitely been considering the factors you mention. The power rating on the Aloia amp is rather deceiving and strangely stated. What the designer intends to state is that it will never deliver less than 30 watts into any load, but a load such as the Tidal Piano present results in something around 75-80 watts. Not quite in the range you mention, but closer. To be honest, I've just been so enamored of the sound the Aloia combo makes, I'm loath to change unless I have to. Perhaps I'll keep an eye out for the more powerful Aloia brother of my current amp, it has double the power of my current one. You are quite correct about the Tidals being so transparent to all downstream, it amazes me how the most picayune change in cabling or source is readily heard. They are also quite sensitive to where they are sited in the room. By moving them a couple inches closer to the wall (they are at 22" now,) I was able to get lower bass out of them. When a well recorded track with proper tonal balance is playing, the Piano's bass doesn't really sound lacking now. It's only on mixes that sound bright or lacking in bass that I notice the lack. Unfortunately, as we know, a great deal of good music isn't reference level recording quality. |
Photon46,
Nice to hear of your progress!
Perfectly understood the recording quality conundrum.. I hardly ever listen or seek to buy latest/best audiophile cds anymore these days. Grew tired of prioritizing quality over content, hence stuck with some sort of equalization as solution--maybe a sin for the most purists, but works great for me nonetheless. ;) Used them only 10-20% of my total listening at most, but good to know its there when needed.
Moreover, I also think that Tidal being the less the showy type, will not showcase sound and/or effects of most audiophile tracks as spectacularly as some others ie.not the best speakers to have to impress visiting friends. But instead, to me, they consistently manage to wrap 'sounds' into bundles of 'music' better than most. Which at this stage, seems to be fitting my priority best.. Music first.
Enjoy yours! |
I used to have the Wavac MD-805m (55w) with the Tidals and I seriously had almost no bass. Try to use more power to see what happens. Now with the Sovereign Power (150W) I have a lot of bass and slam, this is in a 25m2 room. |
Well Argyro & Bvdiman, there's definitely substance in your advice to look for a higher powered amp to help satisfy my yen for more bass. I installed an old back up amp, a 150 watt PS Audio HCA-2 that was modified by Reference Audio Mods. While it's a poor sonic comparison the Aloia from the mid-bass up, the higher powered amp grips the woofers with more control. With more power, I can still tell that frequencies in the twenties aren't being reproduced, but the bass from 32 hz. on up is firmer, more tactile, and has somewhat greater slam. Hearing this has slowed down my urge to complicate my system with the addition of a subwoofer. Next, how to resolve the question of which amplification best resolves the competing interests of audio excellence and the bank account. |
Moving speakers closer to the wall to enhance bass often results in a muddy quality and worsens soundstage and effective resolution. It did not work for me in the past. |
ithink subwoofer should be used with monitor speakers only. if you use "full range speaker"(tidal?) with subwoofer, the speaker is flawed and not credible. |
