Thanks Steve. It's getting better and better. I can't for the TT weight to be shipped. That's going to tighten up the bass I"m sure. I'm surprised that I love it so much already. It's such a great system for me in my room. I'm loving it. It just sounds right and even though I can't tap my foot anymore (MS), I can feel the rhythm and pace of the music like no ones business. |
Enjoy your new system ct. Let us know when it has broken in a bit more and share your findings.
Steve |
See, we all get upset when folks don't agree with our view on things or they dont' like what we own. In the end, it's only about what each person hears. It's the equipment, it's the room, it's the ear. Just so many things that change the sound we all hear. |
My bad as well for attacking you with the "line" stage comment Abrew.
Uncalled for man.
All good from this end with no hard feelings! |
Abrew, it's all good man. We are talking about personal preferences here. None of us are right and none wrong. All ears and rooms are different. It's not really OCD. It's a fun hobby and should always be that way. |
Ok so my last post was knee-jerk, I'll apologize for that. Rega's are good. I just don't see 3k in the RP8 vs the Classic 1. You're right, we can agree to disagree, with no hard feelings. It's all good. I guess this site isn't so bad after all. Lol |
"Line" stage was a typo. Wow, this is getting too weird for me. Feel like I'm being stalked a little. I've decided I'm not OCD enough to belong on this forum. |
Terry, you are correct. I had been looking for used tables or demos. I love my dealer as he's walked me through everything. He just wants me to have the best system I can afford. More than a few times he talked me out of spending more on components. John just gets it. I have been to so many dealers in the last 8 months or so and I only trust a small handful. I won't go into the names, but either they seemed dishonest or clueless or both.
I spoke directly to AJ at Basis before I made the purchase and he said that John was a great guy to deal with (I already knew that though). He told me to stay away from used tables as they rarely are in good shape. he said they do their best to fix broken tables, but it's not always easy or sometimes they just can't. I've never wanted to buy a table or CD transport used as they are moving parts and you never know if they've been taken care of properly. Were they stored correctly or moved correctly. As for listening, it's the most important thing. Even though I never heard the Basis, I trusted Johnny because he knows my ear and he knows my system. It worked. If I didn't like the Basis, he would have taken it back and helped me find the right table. I will also have to say this Heed Quasar phono is as good as the EAR or any other phono I've heard recently. It's an absolute steal at the price and I don't even have the separate power supply for it yet. I don't even know anyone other than Audio Connections who sells the Heed product line(I'm sure there are a few though). It's very special for under 1k and it has MC and MM stages. |
Glad it worked out for you, Ct. A knowledgeable dealer, as they say, is beyond the price of rubies. |
Why stop posting in this thread. I am loving the back and forth. Each of you have different views and are expressing them without personal attacks. That's what forums are all about, right?
As for the Rega, to me it's a great deal if you like their sound. It didnt' do it for me and I kept looking. I bought my first ever piece of equipment without listening...the Basis 1400 with Basis 300 arm, Basis weight and the Benz Glider cart with Heed phono stage Quasar preamp.
Johnny just came to install the TT, phono pre and Vandy Treo's. HOLY CRAP. What a sound. My digital is nice sounding and the Vandy's aren't even close to being broken in, but man do they sound great out of the box. Well the Basis is a demo (new old stock kind of deal I guess). I am so glad I got it. I am in love with the relaxed, but detailed presentation. Even this unit needs breaking in, but the mids are lush and relaxed. Very detailed and the bass is tuneful. I heard the differences in notes. The micro and macro dynamics are awesome. I can tell that once broken in, it will most probably blow me away a to how good this turntable set up will sound. It's already sooo much better than any digital I've ever heard and I've heard the 50k plus systems that are out there as I have been visiting every high end shop on the east coast during my travels as I knew I was getting a new system.
I will save up for the Vector arm. I spoke with AJ at Basis about upgrades for the table and he said that I can upgrade the bearing or a few other things, but nothing is worth it until I upgrade the arm to the Vector. That's what I'll save up for my next analog upgrade.
I was a smart shopper and I won't say what I paid for all of this, but I didn't go over my budget and all the other tables I was listening to (new and used) didn't sound this good to my ears. I would love to hear my set up vs the Linn that I heard in DC or the Ayre (DPS) Ortifon set up I also heard down there. Both were wayyyy above the 5k mark,not the 1500k mark, but I bet my systems is close enough for my ears. Just glad I found so many cool albums I never knew I had. Happy camper here. |
This will be my last post on this thread simply because I find it unfair for others to be caught in the middle of this unfortunate debate.
My point Abrew19:
Music is a simple matter of preferences; obtaining the best ancillary synergy you can affort in order to satisfy your music taste. Expensive parts or engineering DOES NOT guarantee GOOD SOUND!
In my opinion (as well as the opinion of hundred of thousands of music lovers around the world), there is nothing wrong with either VPI, Rega, or any other turntable manufacturer. In fact, EVERY turntable manufacturer will find ways to reduce cost in order to mass produce their product. Do a little research and take a look at the VPI Traveler V1 vs V2:
The logo is no longer a nice badge on the front, but silk screened on the top of the table, the feet are no longer made out of metal with rubber tips, but now all rubber, the tonearm plate release knob is no longer in a cut out, but has been redesigned so a cut out no longer exist, the tonearm cable din plug no longer has a metal housing but a plastic one, the record mat has been changed, the power supply is no longer on the table w/ an IEC connector, there is now an external switching power supply which seems now connected with a barrel connector, the power switch is now this black thing on the top of the table vs a nice metal button on the side from the original, the housing of the motor is now a longer lower profile affair on the bottom vs the deeper more squared box of the first generation.
Why all these changes? To improve profitability. Anyone could interpret these moves as cheaping out correct? Does it mean that now the V2 sounds worse? HECK NO Abrew19! Guess what? It still sounds superb!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Cheaper construction for sure, but still sounds great, you get the point?
Now to debate your STATEMENT on Rega tables:
"There is not much to them to justify their price. Everything is pretty crude. Something that just about anybody could make in their garage with some basic tools".
There is A LOT to them to MORE than justify their price. Just the RB303 alone retails for $595.00. To be able to sell the RP3 for $895.00 baffles the mind of MANY music lovers!!!! BTW, I would like to see you come up with a similar sounding product using basic tools from your garage.
"Rega cheaps out on the design and claims low mass, hi rigidity is superior .... then their customers are forced to implement their own high mass isolation techniques (at their own expense) to fill in the gap".
As I explained to you earlier, Rega DOES NOT cheap out on design. On the contrary, Rega's revolutionary design is BASED on low mass and rigidity. Do yourself a favor and research the NAIAD and then tell me if Rega cheaps out!
Also, I explained to you that MANY aftermarket products create an effective environment of high absorption around turntables to drain away the destructive mechanical energy and change it to benign thermal energy.
It will be ignorant to believe that this problem is unique to Rega tables. Every turntable (including VPI) WILL greatly benefit from sitting on top of a dedicated isolation platform.
"It's 3 pieces of glass glued together man! No machining required. Good engineering to find a way to cut corners from multiple layers of machined metal. They save a lot here. Odds are they source the motors (and the guts to the power supply) from China for dirt cheap... any takers?
As for their custom made skeletal plinth don't get me started".
No machinig required to cut the glass? No engineering necessary to design/produce the double brace skeltal plinth? Who cares if they source the motors from China of Taiwan as long as it works!
In the words of Roy Gandy:
“The biggest problem is that nothing is perfect. There is no such thing as an arm that won’t vibrate itself, that won’t have its own resonances. When the arm moves across the record, which it must do because the groove is an inward-leading spiral, when it moves, its bearings will have some friction which will put a load on the stylus which will then give a slightly less than perfect transcription of the vibration in the record. If the bearings themselves move, which most do, if the arm then moves with them, then it won’t be picking up all the vibration that is in the groove. It’s the lack of perfection in this chain that we must design against. We are trying our best to counter these imperfections which all interact in a very complex series of ways.”
Like I've said many times before Abrew19, in the end there is no right or wrong, it's just a matter of taste.
In closing:
First, I am NOT stating that Rega is "better" than others, just stating that, TO MY EARS, it sounds better than many other TTs I've owned and/or auditioned.
Second, this is MY PERSONAL OPINION and in no way am I trying to persuade you (or others) otherwise.
Last, sometimes we just have to agree to disagree.
However, to STATE that Rega cheaps out compared to VPI (or any other turntable manufacturer) would be negligent when in fact it is simply just another tried and proved approach to turntable engineering.
SOUND Abrew19, SOUND is what matters the MOST. PEOPLE forget about everything else when the SOUND is RIGHT!
Trully no hard feelings Abrew19.
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Well Abrew,
Coming from a person that doesn't know the difference between a LINE stage and a PHONO stage, who knows?
Let me ask you a question, which one did you ended up buying? The Pro-ject Carbon, the Debut III, the RP3, RP6, Traveler?
Please give us all a break!
And yet you have failed once again to explain yourself in terms of the SOUND qualities of the table and not on looks. I rest my case. |
This Kiko guy thinks he has mental telepathy. He seems convinced that he knows what my own experiences and thought processes are.... |
You know the Rega wasn't my cup of tea when I've heard it, but it was a very very good table and much better than anything near it's price. It didn't stand up to a 5k plus Linn or a 8k plus Ayre table. I liked it better than the VPI's I heard (VPI's were at least twice the price). I think it's a very solid performer and not a Bose type of product. Can't go wrong with a Rega and upgraded cart. |
Ctsooner
"Well, my day has finally arrived. Tomorrow John from Audio Connections will be delivering my Vandy Treo's along with my Heed Quasar Phono stage and my Basis 1400, Basis/Rega 300/Micro Benz Glider"
Great setup, when you can swing it upgrade from the Rega to a Basis Vector arm. That will be a very significant improvement.
Sounds like you have a great system going and John is a great guy to work with. |
Well, my day has finally arrived. Tomorrow John from Audio Connections will be delivering my Vandy Treo's along with my Heed Quasar Phono stage and my Basis 1400, Basis/Rega 300/Micro Benz Glider. It's a demo and he was very fair. In the end, this set up is about as good as I could find for the money. For me, this is the perfect set up and I'll now sell off my lightly used Rotel 855/Van den Hul MM1 cartridge (any takers? ).
I'll let you all know how it sounds after it all breaks in. I'll upgrade to the new belt soon I'm sure. Just need to get a VPI 16.5 cleaner now. |
The Pro-ject Debut Carbon is due tomorrow, for the price it's performance is very good. There is better out there, but you gotta pay to play. |
Really Abrew19?
Still trashing Rega TTs without any SUBSTANTIAL evidence/comments/observations. Very professional of you I may say.
What kind of TT do you own? How long have you been in this hobby? How many different set ups have you EVER owned? Have you ever done a head to head comparison between the Classic and the RP8........or any other decks? Heck, have you ever auditioned an RP8........or even a Classic? Doubt it very much. Do us all a favor and stop pretending you know what you're talking about Abrew.
I believe you have "selective hearing". I praised the Classic. You want to know why? Because I auditioned one. I took the time to stop by my local dealer and I had an extensive listening session in order to be able to make a consensus decision based on taste, not looks. Not only that, I used to own A Scout! Just not my cup of tea. Again, there is no right or wrong, just a matter of taste.
Instead of "pretending" that you know what you're talking about let's do this. Start writing about WHY you don't like the Rega SOUND and not about WHY YOU THINK Rega products look cheap. Anyone can make that assumption based on looks.
Let's hear your comments based on personal experience and NOT on bias information about your perception on cheap construction. Do us all a favor and talk like a someone who knows what he is saying! |
To Kiko65:
"..custom made skeletal plinth, new ultra-stable RB808 tonearm with state of the art bearing assembly, triple-layer glass platter for fly wheel effect, 24-volt low-noise, low-vibration motor controlled by a hand-tuned electronic external power supply, new double bracing technology for stifness where it matter the most, between the tonearm mounting and the main hub bearing, forming a structurally sound "stressed beam" assembly."
None of this stuff costs much to make for any factory with decent volumes of production. "state of the art bearing assembly, triple-layer glass platter for fly wheel effect" ... dude do you write their ad copy, or what? It's 3 pieces of glass glued together man! No machining required. Good engineering to find a way to cut corners from multiple layers of machined metal. They save a lot here.
"24-volt low-noise, low-vibration motor controlled by a hand-tuned electronic external power supply" .... seriously? Odds are they source the motors (and the guts to the power supply) from China for dirt cheap... any takers?
As for their "custom made skeletal plinth" don't get me started. |
I think that when I heard the Rega 6, that it wasn't isolated properly. It was just thread bare in the mids. Sterile almost is how it sounded. I heard it vs the totally tricked out Linn 12 and the Linn just had more pace and rhythm. It wasn't even close. I know the cost diff was huge, but the Rega just didn't sound right, but years ago I loved the Rega. I regret not getting the P3 around 1998 or so. I got the Rotel 855 with VDH MM1 (great cartridge I'm selling off with this table). It's a nice rig and set up properly is awesome. That said it wasn't a Rega.
So many variables with analog playback and I think some sell it, but don't set it up properly. |
My Modded REGA P3/24 sits on a Mapleshade ISO system and it is so quiet now its thrilling!! I totally agree that with the mods and Isolation this table is a giant slayer! |
Sounds like a nice rig. Personally, I've learned that getting through a local dealer is supporting the local shops, plus I"ve always had problems in shipping audio. My brother just opened 4 boxes of Paradigms he bought and had shipped. The first tower was crushed and the whole side of the speaker was crushed.It will sound OK, but not perfect adn it looks terrible. No resale value either. The store said it was too late and not their fault. Screw them for any referral business in the future. The other tower had a finger dent in it's tweeter. That came that way from the store and not shipping. No way, no how it was shipping....again, oh well. Also, they shipped speakers that weren't serial number matches. I always demand speakers who's numbers are next to each other. Just my deal I guess.
Glad you had no problems and that it's working well. Yes, those of us who listen, feel strongly that vinyl is the best way to go when you want to really relax and enjoy the music. Enjoy and relax. |
Music Hall mmf 5.1 with a sumiko blue point #2 cart and a project tube box s.
You can pick all this up from needle doctor or music direct, but either way it sounds wonderful. |
Steve, that's the neat thing about audio. To your ears and in your system you love the Technics/Stanton. I used to use that set up many years ago and changed to a Rotel/Van den Hul MM1 that I'm currently selling. I liked the Rotel much better for many reasons, but that's for me and my systems that I've used it in. I'm updating to a Basis w/basis Rega 301/Micro Benz Glider and it's a far step up the ladder (demo cost was awesome).
It's like anything else in audio, but especially vinyl. Set up is KEY. The room and equipment make differences, but cables in vinyl are a HUGE thing also. I heard the Traveler recently in a system that is very revealing (Maggie 3.7 and Hegel 300 integrated) and it made the Maggies sound ok. I don't like the Maggie sound and for me to be able to listen for even a few songs was amazing to me. I just hear the Music Hall 11.1 yesterday, which is a HUGE step up in price, lol...It sounded much better than the Project tables or the Regas I've heard recently. Not sure how the MM7 sounds in comparison.
this is why there are so many models in all price ranges. |
I owned Rega Planar 3 and 25 tables, and while decent, they in no way compare to the sound I now get with my $300 used Technics 1200 mkII and vintage Stanton 881s cartridge. This combo beats them all and I have also owned VPI Traveler (version 1) and Music Hall MM7 tables as well. |
Great post Kiko. You really broke it down the way many of us see it. |
Up for debate Abrew19,
There is a SIGNIFICANT comparison when you break it down to the component and sub-component level.
Both TTs engineered completely different but with the same attention to details based on common principles:
One, a 50 pounds "Behemoth" of a table that comes standard with the stainless steel version of the JMW-10.5i unipivot tonearm in rigid mount mode, a solid plinth, a solid fixed mounted AC 600 RPM synchronous motor, new Mini HR-X isolation feet, and the Classic Aluminum Platter. All in all, an outstanding product capable of outperforming tables costing twice as much.
The other, a revolutionary design: custom made skeletal plinth, new ultra-stable RB808 tonearm with state of the art bearing assembly, triple-layer glass platter for fly wheel effect, 24-volt low-noise, low-vibration motor controlled by a hand-tuned electronic external power supply, new double bracing technology for stifness where it matter the most, between the tonearm mounting and the main hub bearing, forming a structurally sound "stressed beam" assembly.
In the end, there is no right or wrong, just a matter of taste. Some people (including me) prefer the RP8 over the Classic, especially because of the richness and musicality of the Rega compared to the "revealing" nature of the VPI deck. Please note that "revealing" does not mean harsh or over the edge. It just sound more analytical to my ears, nothing more, nothing less.
Happy listening.
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I wonder if Rega knows that most use their own isolation devices and that's why they do this. Heck, if I can find a 1k rig with everything and make it sound as good as a 2k rig by adding a 350 device, that's still a big bargain to me. I have now heard the Rega 300 series arm on a ton of tables and the arm really is a bargain. It allows you to possibly get into a top table and then let you upgrade the arm later if you need to. I will say that from my ears, the table means much more than the arm and possibly cartridge. I know many manufactures feel the same and I can see why. I was able to hear two different tables with a top of the line arm and then with the Rega arm (same cartridge). The sound wasn't THAT far off and the cost differences were at least 1k and I think one arm was probably 3k or so. It's just all dependent on so many variables. |
Don't get me wrong. I don't think there's anything 'wrong' with adding mass or isolation as aftermarket enhancements. I'm all for it. I'm just saying that Rega saves a lot of manufacturing cost with their designs. with the mid-priced RP3/RP6/RP8 especially, I'm not convinced they pass the savings along to the customer. They are well-engineered and fine sounding products, but the plinth is a piece of high tech cardboard with a coat of of flashy paint. At 3 Grand, compare the RP8 to the VPI Classic. There is no comparison when you break it down to the component and sub-component level. But like I said before, nice Rega have very nice tonearms however. |
I decided to get a great Gingko Cloud 11. These things sound freaking awesome. I've heard them in a few places on different tables and WOW for the cost. I have heard all kinds of devices, however so many ruin the sound. I think that it depends on the table and it's suspension as to what device to use. So far I've heard Gingko on the Linn, Rega and a 60k plus Basis and on all of these different types of suspension it made a positive difference. This is why you need a good dealer who knows what works best.
As for adding an isolation device, what's wrong with adding one when it helps? They work with any turntable. That's just like using a good rack or your electronics using proper legs.
BTW, may of us have used special devices on our speakers to change the sound a bit. Personally I don't with speakers anymore, but for a TT or transport or any tube gear (been a tube guy for a long time before going with Ayre). It's not a big deal to most. |
Wow Abrew19!!!
Your ignorance baffles me. You are really missing the point here.
It is a fact that ANY turntable, no matter how light or heavy, would greatly benefit from some type of isolation devise.
The basic laws of physics tell us that the vibration's energy is never destroyed, it can only change form.
MANY products (like my $22.00 sandbox) create an effective environment of high absorption around the component to drain away the destructive mechanical energy and change it to benign thermal energy.
All vinyl lovers are acutely aware of the fact that (ideally) the unseen vibrations of that tiny diamond stylus should be the ONLY source of what is heard from the loudspeakers.
Even the airborne unseen vibrations produced by the loudspeakers can and do affect every component in a music system, the major effect being on the analog's turntable setup.
If you are not aware of the great importance you simply never came close to hearing how good your vinyl recordings could or can sound.
Hundreds of pages have been written and published regarding prevention of the problem with turntables.
Rega's philosophy is very simple, mass absorbs energy, loss energy equals loss music. Roy Gandy believes that his rigid plinth design prevents energy absorption and unwanted resonance, which will add unnatural distortions to the music.
Roy also believes that heavier mass can transfer more unwanted energy, such as motor or bearing noise, directly into the rotating record so he addresses the issue of mass absorption and unwanted energy transmission with his light plinth approach.
It's not perfect. There's no such thing. But each turntable designer tries hard to get closer to perfection taking into consideration a large number of conflicting engineering parameters.
To state that there is a problem with my set up because I NEED the 50 pounds sandbox to make it "sing" is simply absurd!
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If you have to add a custom-made 50 pound sand box to make a turntable sound good, then the turntable has significant shortcomings. We don't purchase a pair of speakers with cabinet resonance issues and the add our own lumber to quiet the cabinet. Why is this any different?
Rega "cheaps out" on the design and claims "low mass, hi rigidity is superior" .... then their customers are forced to implement their own high mass isolation techniques (at their own expense) to fill in the gap. All the while, those customers seem to be a happy as a lark.
Those Rega marketing guys have a pretty good thing going on for themselves! : ) |
Dear Ctsooner,
Great post as well. Just a few comments:
The RP6 retails for $1,500.00 but its basically an RP3 with the TT-PSU included which, IMHO, is Rega's least attractive offer. Basically no significant sonic difference from the $200.00 least expensive Rega RP40. That said, at $1,300.00, it has no business sounding this good!
The Clearaudio Concept and the VPI Traveler may be included in this cateory but they are priced at least $200.00 more. Actually, I did a head to head comparison between the Clearaudio Concept (Concept MM cartridge) and the Marantz TT-15s1 (Virtuoso cartridge) and the Marantz, hands down, blew the Concept away. Similar engineering, much better cart.
Your Basis 1400S with a Rega arm goes for around $3,500.00 (add at least another $1,000.00 or so if you purchased it with the Vector tonearm) plus another $1,200.00 for the Glider S and now you're in the $4,700.00 - $5,700.00 range.
My point is that it will be unfair to compare the RP6 with Linn LP12, Basis 1400S, VPI Classic, WT Amadeus, etc. Now, the RP8 ($3,000.00) and/or the RP10 ($5,500.00) would be a fair comparison.
Rega TTs up to the RP6 are considered a great value albeit their limitations. This is why so many Rega owners love to tweak their TTs. Groovetracer's (to name just one company) reference sub-platter (zirconium ball/sapphire thrust plate), delrin platter, and counterweight are superior to Rega's entry level equals, but no longer necessary when you move up to the RP8/RP10 line.
One more comment, did you try the RP6 sitting on top of the Ginko platform? Because I agree with you %100 that all turntables need special attention to isolation, specially lightweight TTs like Rega!
That alone may have been the reason with the RP6 sounded thin to your ears. My heavily modified RP3 is sitting on top of a custom made, 50 pounds sand box, replaced the rubber feet with threaded/adjustable brass cone footers, and the level of resolution, dynamic impact, sense of focus, and overall musicality it produces is breathtaking!
As you can see, I'm a big fan of Rega turntables :-)
In the end, there is no right or wrong, just MUSIC BABY!
Happy listening!
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great posts to all. I've been listening to a ton of tables lately. More than I should be, lol. I have found that most of the tables above 5 k (with arm and cart) are well worth it IF you can afford it. There are so many differences in the lower priced tables and I haven't loved all of them. My main dealer sells the Rega, VPI, Clearaudio and Basis. He was having me listen to the Rega 6, but then I noticed he had a Basis tucked away. I went with the Basis without hearing it. First product I've ever done that with, but I trust him and his analoge guy and he knows the rest of my system as I got it from him, lol. I'm so glad I made this purchase over the Rega 6.
I didn't like the 6 vs other tables I have heard it against, HOWEVER the other systems were much more money. I think the Rega was thin compared to the top of the line Linn, Basis, VPI, Well Tempered (finally heard one) and the German Ayre(DPS) with Ortofon arm and cart.
Turntables have so much that go into their sound and you really need a dealer you trust who has honestly heard different arm and cart set ups. The Rega arm is amazing as I've heard them all on different tables. For the price you really can't come close. I have found though that the TT and not the arm makes the biggest difference by far. It's not even close in that it drives everything. The better tables just sounded right and relaxed when you listen to them. Bottom line is that you can go anywhere with your vinyl and it will sound better than any digital. I finally heard top digital, including DSD done right and it sounds great. I'll gladly listen to it 80% of the time when I'm reading or on the computer, but when listening I relax more with vinyl.
The thing is that personally, I'm done with tweeking and rolling tubes etc... I'll put a Gingko Cloud under the TT as that thing is by far the best isolation device I've come across. Even tables that have their own special isolation sounded better overall with the Gingko vs those without. I"ve heard a ton of other higher cost platforms, but they changed the sound and didn't always make ti better. Some would tighten up everything, but they ruin the stage or the highs. Some would clean up the stage and ground it, but ruined the bass or sucked out the mids too much for me.
Bottom line is that you need to get what you like. The phono stage means just as much as does the wiring. Lot's of variables, but the basic table, cart, arm set up for 500 on a Gingko Cloud 10 has sounded better to my ear than all of the 20k digital set ups that dealers were demoing for me. |
Now, here we go MI8764ag:
1. Plan to spend between $1,300.00 - $1,500.00
2. Test your A5 amp phono section to find out if it works. If not, you will have to either repair it or go with an external phono pre (which means more money you will need to spend).
3. Buy new! Today's technology is far superior plus re-sale value is better.
VPI Nomad ($995.00) - You will get a decent package that includes:
A built-in phono preamplifier, a built-in headphone amplifier, an Ortofon 2M Red moving-magnet cartridge, a new gimbaled-bearing tonearm. What's cool about this table is that the built-in phono pre is built to perfectly complement the Ortofon 2M Series. So if you want better performance, simply upgrade the stylus! Clever indeed. Plus, the built-in phono pre will help you save money in case your A5 phono section isn't working.
Rega RP40 ($1299.00) - IMHO a much better option for $300.00 more that includes:
The new and improved RB-303 tonearm, custom-cut glass platter, lightweight titanium plinth with double-brace technology. The RP40 also comes equipped with a set of custom-designed anti-vibration feet, a new belt, and a special-edition white Elys40 cartridge, carefully tested to the highest achievable specs to deliver improved stereo imaging, balance and detail.
The real deal here is the addition of the TT-PSU. This unit maximizes the efficiency of the anti-vibration circuit while still offering the convenience of electronic speed change. So you will enjoy a dead quiet 24V motor!
Now the VPI Traveler starts at $1,500.00 sans cart. With a 2M red, it will match the price of a Clearaudio Concept with Concept MM cart at $1,599.00. $300.00 more than the RP40 without the power supply unit.
Based on your demands, and I quote "Right or wrong, part of the reason I chose this is relative simplicity of setup and use. Although I'm open to messing with accessories and upgrades, I don't want to mess with spacers, complicated adjustments, changing arms, or hacking the table in any way", then you will be better off with the Nomad or the RP40.
Spin Clean Washer MKII, Audioquest Carbon Fiber Record Brush, and a Clearaudio Diamond Stylus Brush should take care of the cleaning process.
Buy a few good records and Voila!!!!!! |
Dear Abrew19,
This is MY opinion and in NO way I am trying to persuade you otherwise.
TTs I've owned:
Empire Troubador, Technics SL1200 MKII, Denon DP-60L, Pro-ject 6.1SB, Rega P3, VPI Scout, Clearaudio Champion, Well Tempered Classic, Music Hall MMF7, Funk Firm Vector, Linn Sondek LP12, and now a heavily modified RP3.
Clear winner IMHO? The modified RP3
In it's defense, the Rega RP3 may well be the most significant audio product of the decade. The RP3 has been designed and engineered to achieve outstanding performance way beyond the expectations of a product at this price point......with the added bonus of an upgradeable path.
Most importantly, Rega concentrate the manufacturing costs on the high quality parts necessary to reproduce records accurately; bearing, double brace technology, 24V motor, tonearm, and not on "looks".
The so called "cheap light plinth" has been purposely and cleverly design to prevent energy absorption and unwanted resonances which will add unnatural distortions to the music. Sit this table on a sand box and completely eliminate unwanted vibrations from the 24V motor by locking it precisely with the Rega TT-PSU and you will have a dead quiet table capable of producing eeire black backgrounds with the right cart.
The arm is a killer! it has improved bearings and a tightened spindle fit tolerance over previous models. Each bearing is individually selected to find the perfect match for the chosen spindle. This is a proven method of increasing the amount of detail retrieved from the record surface.
The new RB303 uses the latest Rega arm tube found in the RB808 and RB2000 (completely redesigned to redistribute mass, further reduce stresses and resonances). This advanced design tube increases the stiffness and rigidity of the overall assembly using CAD design to blend the multiple varying tapers.
Excellent reviews everywhere! Best TT under $1,500.00, budget analog component of the year, 5 star What HiFi winner, the list goes on and on. So many audio experts can't be wrong, don't you think?
Better TTs out there? Hell yeah!!!
Townshend Rock 7, Well Tempered Amadeus, Acoustic Signature Wow XL just to name a few.
All TTs have strong and weak points. In the end, it all boils down to synergy and taste. I can happily say that my modified Rega RP3 "sings" better than any other TT I've ever owned and that I dont miss my rather expensive Linn LP12 set up.....at all.
Again, just my opinion! |
Keithtexas has a point about the Rega. There's not much too them to justify their price. The tonearms are very nice, but everything else is pretty crude. Something that just about anybody could make in their garage with some basic tools. Methinks that in the US much of the price is made up of import and exchange costs, not product. Not saying they don't sound great, I'm just saying that they are overpriced for what they are. |
I have a hunch that dealers do better monetarily selling the Rega line, than with other brands, e.g. VPI. Had too many dealers try to nudge me over to Rega when I wasn't asking about them. These dealers normally don't do that with other types of products. Had it happen too many times to be a coincidence. Rega must a have a healthy distribution network in the US that makes them appealing to stocking dealers. |
Sounds like a nice rig. I heard the Lynn and Rega 6 today with Vandy Quattro's. loved em both. Totally different sounds. I won't say which one I liked best, but the Vandy's ROCKED. |
My Rega p3/24 has all the Groovetracer upgrades : acrylic platter , Ref sub-platter,white belt,Groovetracer 3mm spacer for RB301.I installed a Dynavector 10x5 and this table kicks butt! The Dynavector is the best match for the RB301. I have tried Denon and Nagaoka and they are good, not as good as the Dynavector though. |
Rega's are still a great table for the money. Do you care more about looks or how it sounds and stands up over time? I stopped by to see John at Audio Connection yesterday on my way to Philly (I'm in CT) and I walk out of there with a Heed phono stage, Basis 1400S with Benz Glider S. He sells the VPI, Basis, Clearaudio and Rega tables. Has most of the big boys covered. It will depend on your personal tastes like anything else, but I've learned that in audio, some of your best values are not always wrapped in 1" aluminum housings or the hand finished wooden plinths. |
RP40 is not a bad choice if found on sale. However, almost sonically the same as RP3 with the addition of the TT-PSU. Also disagree with Keithtexas. RP3 may well be the audio revelation of the decade. With its much improved double brace tech, 24V motor, and RB303 tonearm, this extremely light and rigid design has been around for close to 30 years. Rave reviews everywhere. Not to mention an almost infinite upgradeable path. Just go for a better cart. Rega carts are subpar in nature. Try a DV10X5 and you will have a very decent set up. |
Recommend you consider a Clearaudio Concept turntable.
Great engineering, pretty much plug and play.
Rega's seem ok, just hard to justify paying that much for a rough looking piece of half inch mdf and an average motor. |
Ml8764ag, since you are looking at the RP3 from Music Direct, I'd recommend checking out the clearance RP40 from them too. It's basically an improved RP3 and when it's on sale it is probably the better way to go. Good luck. |
Tony, I got it, but I had to make sure, lol. What's the viscosity of the furniture oil you are using? I find beez wax from a special African bee works best for tightening the bass, but at the expense of the soundstage. Just another tradeoff. ;)....see I really do get it |
There seems to be a lot of EMT TSD15 and Denon 103 users with the WTA using a SUT into a MM phononstage. I am using K&K MC phono with my EMT but will be trying SUT route this weekend. |
Tonywinsc,
Thanks for providing all of us fanatics with your really funny take on the vinyl way of life. |
Hi CTsooner: It's supposed to be satire- or at least my attempt at satire. Maybe I'm not so good at satire. I am an engineer after all. |
"...unless you're a brain-washed herd-following snob....:-)"
Dear Halcro: Ouch! That hits me a little too close to home. Here I wanted to ask if it is ok to use some furniture polish on the wood body of my Benz LOMC or would a $100/oz exotic wood oil improve the sound? What does everyone else do? |
