RP40 is not a bad choice if found on sale. However, almost sonically the same as RP3 with the addition of the TT-PSU. Also disagree with Keithtexas. RP3 may well be the audio revelation of the decade. With its much improved double brace tech, 24V motor, and RB303 tonearm, this extremely light and rigid design has been around for close to 30 years. Rave reviews everywhere. Not to mention an almost infinite upgradeable path. Just go for a better cart. Rega carts are subpar in nature. Try a DV10X5 and you will have a very decent set up. |
Dear Abrew19,
This is MY opinion and in NO way I am trying to persuade you otherwise.
TTs I've owned:
Empire Troubador, Technics SL1200 MKII, Denon DP-60L, Pro-ject 6.1SB, Rega P3, VPI Scout, Clearaudio Champion, Well Tempered Classic, Music Hall MMF7, Funk Firm Vector, Linn Sondek LP12, and now a heavily modified RP3.
Clear winner IMHO? The modified RP3
In it's defense, the Rega RP3 may well be the most significant audio product of the decade. The RP3 has been designed and engineered to achieve outstanding performance way beyond the expectations of a product at this price point......with the added bonus of an upgradeable path.
Most importantly, Rega concentrate the manufacturing costs on the high quality parts necessary to reproduce records accurately; bearing, double brace technology, 24V motor, tonearm, and not on "looks".
The so called "cheap light plinth" has been purposely and cleverly design to prevent energy absorption and unwanted resonances which will add unnatural distortions to the music. Sit this table on a sand box and completely eliminate unwanted vibrations from the 24V motor by locking it precisely with the Rega TT-PSU and you will have a dead quiet table capable of producing eeire black backgrounds with the right cart.
The arm is a killer! it has improved bearings and a tightened spindle fit tolerance over previous models. Each bearing is individually selected to find the perfect match for the chosen spindle. This is a proven method of increasing the amount of detail retrieved from the record surface.
The new RB303 uses the latest Rega arm tube found in the RB808 and RB2000 (completely redesigned to redistribute mass, further reduce stresses and resonances). This advanced design tube increases the stiffness and rigidity of the overall assembly using CAD design to blend the multiple varying tapers.
Excellent reviews everywhere! Best TT under $1,500.00, budget analog component of the year, 5 star What HiFi winner, the list goes on and on. So many audio experts can't be wrong, don't you think?
Better TTs out there? Hell yeah!!!
Townshend Rock 7, Well Tempered Amadeus, Acoustic Signature Wow XL just to name a few.
All TTs have strong and weak points. In the end, it all boils down to synergy and taste. I can happily say that my modified Rega RP3 "sings" better than any other TT I've ever owned and that I dont miss my rather expensive Linn LP12 set up.....at all.
Again, just my opinion! |
Now, here we go MI8764ag:
1. Plan to spend between $1,300.00 - $1,500.00
2. Test your A5 amp phono section to find out if it works. If not, you will have to either repair it or go with an external phono pre (which means more money you will need to spend).
3. Buy new! Today's technology is far superior plus re-sale value is better.
VPI Nomad ($995.00) - You will get a decent package that includes:
A built-in phono preamplifier, a built-in headphone amplifier, an Ortofon 2M Red moving-magnet cartridge, a new gimbaled-bearing tonearm. What's cool about this table is that the built-in phono pre is built to perfectly complement the Ortofon 2M Series. So if you want better performance, simply upgrade the stylus! Clever indeed. Plus, the built-in phono pre will help you save money in case your A5 phono section isn't working.
Rega RP40 ($1299.00) - IMHO a much better option for $300.00 more that includes:
The new and improved RB-303 tonearm, custom-cut glass platter, lightweight titanium plinth with double-brace technology. The RP40 also comes equipped with a set of custom-designed anti-vibration feet, a new belt, and a special-edition white Elys40 cartridge, carefully tested to the highest achievable specs to deliver improved stereo imaging, balance and detail.
The real deal here is the addition of the TT-PSU. This unit maximizes the efficiency of the anti-vibration circuit while still offering the convenience of electronic speed change. So you will enjoy a dead quiet 24V motor!
Now the VPI Traveler starts at $1,500.00 sans cart. With a 2M red, it will match the price of a Clearaudio Concept with Concept MM cart at $1,599.00. $300.00 more than the RP40 without the power supply unit.
Based on your demands, and I quote "Right or wrong, part of the reason I chose this is relative simplicity of setup and use. Although I'm open to messing with accessories and upgrades, I don't want to mess with spacers, complicated adjustments, changing arms, or hacking the table in any way", then you will be better off with the Nomad or the RP40.
Spin Clean Washer MKII, Audioquest Carbon Fiber Record Brush, and a Clearaudio Diamond Stylus Brush should take care of the cleaning process.
Buy a few good records and Voila!!!!!! |
Dear Ctsooner,
Great post as well. Just a few comments:
The RP6 retails for $1,500.00 but its basically an RP3 with the TT-PSU included which, IMHO, is Rega's least attractive offer. Basically no significant sonic difference from the $200.00 least expensive Rega RP40. That said, at $1,300.00, it has no business sounding this good!
The Clearaudio Concept and the VPI Traveler may be included in this cateory but they are priced at least $200.00 more. Actually, I did a head to head comparison between the Clearaudio Concept (Concept MM cartridge) and the Marantz TT-15s1 (Virtuoso cartridge) and the Marantz, hands down, blew the Concept away. Similar engineering, much better cart.
Your Basis 1400S with a Rega arm goes for around $3,500.00 (add at least another $1,000.00 or so if you purchased it with the Vector tonearm) plus another $1,200.00 for the Glider S and now you're in the $4,700.00 - $5,700.00 range.
My point is that it will be unfair to compare the RP6 with Linn LP12, Basis 1400S, VPI Classic, WT Amadeus, etc. Now, the RP8 ($3,000.00) and/or the RP10 ($5,500.00) would be a fair comparison.
Rega TTs up to the RP6 are considered a great value albeit their limitations. This is why so many Rega owners love to tweak their TTs. Groovetracer's (to name just one company) reference sub-platter (zirconium ball/sapphire thrust plate), delrin platter, and counterweight are superior to Rega's entry level equals, but no longer necessary when you move up to the RP8/RP10 line.
One more comment, did you try the RP6 sitting on top of the Ginko platform? Because I agree with you %100 that all turntables need special attention to isolation, specially lightweight TTs like Rega!
That alone may have been the reason with the RP6 sounded thin to your ears. My heavily modified RP3 is sitting on top of a custom made, 50 pounds sand box, replaced the rubber feet with threaded/adjustable brass cone footers, and the level of resolution, dynamic impact, sense of focus, and overall musicality it produces is breathtaking!
As you can see, I'm a big fan of Rega turntables :-)
In the end, there is no right or wrong, just MUSIC BABY!
Happy listening!
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Wow Abrew19!!!
Your ignorance baffles me. You are really missing the point here.
It is a fact that ANY turntable, no matter how light or heavy, would greatly benefit from some type of isolation devise.
The basic laws of physics tell us that the vibration's energy is never destroyed, it can only change form.
MANY products (like my $22.00 sandbox) create an effective environment of high absorption around the component to drain away the destructive mechanical energy and change it to benign thermal energy.
All vinyl lovers are acutely aware of the fact that (ideally) the unseen vibrations of that tiny diamond stylus should be the ONLY source of what is heard from the loudspeakers.
Even the airborne unseen vibrations produced by the loudspeakers can and do affect every component in a music system, the major effect being on the analog's turntable setup.
If you are not aware of the great importance you simply never came close to hearing how good your vinyl recordings could or can sound.
Hundreds of pages have been written and published regarding prevention of the problem with turntables.
Rega's philosophy is very simple, mass absorbs energy, loss energy equals loss music. Roy Gandy believes that his rigid plinth design prevents energy absorption and unwanted resonance, which will add unnatural distortions to the music.
Roy also believes that heavier mass can transfer more unwanted energy, such as motor or bearing noise, directly into the rotating record so he addresses the issue of mass absorption and unwanted energy transmission with his light plinth approach.
It's not perfect. There's no such thing. But each turntable designer tries hard to get closer to perfection taking into consideration a large number of conflicting engineering parameters.
To state that there is a problem with my set up because I NEED the 50 pounds sandbox to make it "sing" is simply absurd!
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Up for debate Abrew19,
There is a SIGNIFICANT comparison when you break it down to the component and sub-component level.
Both TTs engineered completely different but with the same attention to details based on common principles:
One, a 50 pounds "Behemoth" of a table that comes standard with the stainless steel version of the JMW-10.5i unipivot tonearm in rigid mount mode, a solid plinth, a solid fixed mounted AC 600 RPM synchronous motor, new Mini HR-X isolation feet, and the Classic Aluminum Platter. All in all, an outstanding product capable of outperforming tables costing twice as much.
The other, a revolutionary design: custom made skeletal plinth, new ultra-stable RB808 tonearm with state of the art bearing assembly, triple-layer glass platter for fly wheel effect, 24-volt low-noise, low-vibration motor controlled by a hand-tuned electronic external power supply, new double bracing technology for stifness where it matter the most, between the tonearm mounting and the main hub bearing, forming a structurally sound "stressed beam" assembly.
In the end, there is no right or wrong, just a matter of taste. Some people (including me) prefer the RP8 over the Classic, especially because of the richness and musicality of the Rega compared to the "revealing" nature of the VPI deck. Please note that "revealing" does not mean harsh or over the edge. It just sound more analytical to my ears, nothing more, nothing less.
Happy listening.
|
Really Abrew19?
Still trashing Rega TTs without any SUBSTANTIAL evidence/comments/observations. Very professional of you I may say.
What kind of TT do you own? How long have you been in this hobby? How many different set ups have you EVER owned? Have you ever done a head to head comparison between the Classic and the RP8........or any other decks? Heck, have you ever auditioned an RP8........or even a Classic? Doubt it very much. Do us all a favor and stop pretending you know what you're talking about Abrew.
I believe you have "selective hearing". I praised the Classic. You want to know why? Because I auditioned one. I took the time to stop by my local dealer and I had an extensive listening session in order to be able to make a consensus decision based on taste, not looks. Not only that, I used to own A Scout! Just not my cup of tea. Again, there is no right or wrong, just a matter of taste.
Instead of "pretending" that you know what you're talking about let's do this. Start writing about WHY you don't like the Rega SOUND and not about WHY YOU THINK Rega products look cheap. Anyone can make that assumption based on looks.
Let's hear your comments based on personal experience and NOT on bias information about your perception on cheap construction. Do us all a favor and talk like a someone who knows what he is saying! |
Well Abrew,
Coming from a person that doesn't know the difference between a LINE stage and a PHONO stage, who knows?
Let me ask you a question, which one did you ended up buying? The Pro-ject Carbon, the Debut III, the RP3, RP6, Traveler?
Please give us all a break!
And yet you have failed once again to explain yourself in terms of the SOUND qualities of the table and not on looks. I rest my case. |
This will be my last post on this thread simply because I find it unfair for others to be caught in the middle of this unfortunate debate.
My point Abrew19:
Music is a simple matter of preferences; obtaining the best ancillary synergy you can affort in order to satisfy your music taste. Expensive parts or engineering DOES NOT guarantee GOOD SOUND!
In my opinion (as well as the opinion of hundred of thousands of music lovers around the world), there is nothing wrong with either VPI, Rega, or any other turntable manufacturer. In fact, EVERY turntable manufacturer will find ways to reduce cost in order to mass produce their product. Do a little research and take a look at the VPI Traveler V1 vs V2:
The logo is no longer a nice badge on the front, but silk screened on the top of the table, the feet are no longer made out of metal with rubber tips, but now all rubber, the tonearm plate release knob is no longer in a cut out, but has been redesigned so a cut out no longer exist, the tonearm cable din plug no longer has a metal housing but a plastic one, the record mat has been changed, the power supply is no longer on the table w/ an IEC connector, there is now an external switching power supply which seems now connected with a barrel connector, the power switch is now this black thing on the top of the table vs a nice metal button on the side from the original, the housing of the motor is now a longer lower profile affair on the bottom vs the deeper more squared box of the first generation.
Why all these changes? To improve profitability. Anyone could interpret these moves as cheaping out correct? Does it mean that now the V2 sounds worse? HECK NO Abrew19! Guess what? It still sounds superb!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Cheaper construction for sure, but still sounds great, you get the point?
Now to debate your STATEMENT on Rega tables:
"There is not much to them to justify their price. Everything is pretty crude. Something that just about anybody could make in their garage with some basic tools".
There is A LOT to them to MORE than justify their price. Just the RB303 alone retails for $595.00. To be able to sell the RP3 for $895.00 baffles the mind of MANY music lovers!!!! BTW, I would like to see you come up with a similar sounding product using basic tools from your garage.
"Rega cheaps out on the design and claims low mass, hi rigidity is superior .... then their customers are forced to implement their own high mass isolation techniques (at their own expense) to fill in the gap".
As I explained to you earlier, Rega DOES NOT cheap out on design. On the contrary, Rega's revolutionary design is BASED on low mass and rigidity. Do yourself a favor and research the NAIAD and then tell me if Rega cheaps out!
Also, I explained to you that MANY aftermarket products create an effective environment of high absorption around turntables to drain away the destructive mechanical energy and change it to benign thermal energy.
It will be ignorant to believe that this problem is unique to Rega tables. Every turntable (including VPI) WILL greatly benefit from sitting on top of a dedicated isolation platform.
"It's 3 pieces of glass glued together man! No machining required. Good engineering to find a way to cut corners from multiple layers of machined metal. They save a lot here. Odds are they source the motors (and the guts to the power supply) from China for dirt cheap... any takers?
As for their custom made skeletal plinth don't get me started".
No machinig required to cut the glass? No engineering necessary to design/produce the double brace skeltal plinth? Who cares if they source the motors from China of Taiwan as long as it works!
In the words of Roy Gandy:
The biggest problem is that nothing is perfect. There is no such thing as an arm that wont vibrate itself, that wont have its own resonances. When the arm moves across the record, which it must do because the groove is an inward-leading spiral, when it moves, its bearings will have some friction which will put a load on the stylus which will then give a slightly less than perfect transcription of the vibration in the record. If the bearings themselves move, which most do, if the arm then moves with them, then it wont be picking up all the vibration that is in the groove. Its the lack of perfection in this chain that we must design against. We are trying our best to counter these imperfections which all interact in a very complex series of ways.
Like I've said many times before Abrew19, in the end there is no right or wrong, it's just a matter of taste.
In closing:
First, I am NOT stating that Rega is "better" than others, just stating that, TO MY EARS, it sounds better than many other TTs I've owned and/or auditioned.
Second, this is MY PERSONAL OPINION and in no way am I trying to persuade you (or others) otherwise.
Last, sometimes we just have to agree to disagree.
However, to STATE that Rega cheaps out compared to VPI (or any other turntable manufacturer) would be negligent when in fact it is simply just another tried and proved approach to turntable engineering.
SOUND Abrew19, SOUND is what matters the MOST. PEOPLE forget about everything else when the SOUND is RIGHT!
Trully no hard feelings Abrew19.
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My bad as well for attacking you with the "line" stage comment Abrew.
Uncalled for man.
All good from this end with no hard feelings! |
