Thiel Owners

coop_301

Another ML repair expert is United Radio Syracuse, NY.

Happy Listening!

coop_301

I have a used pair of C6’s. Both my midranges buzz occasionally. Sometimes due to under amplification and sometimes just at certain passages rarely in certain songs.

I’m certain I need new drivers. My pair cost $2,500 in 2019.

Still, these buzzings are rare. These are the most natural, honest, powerful and nuanced speakers I’ve had in my system.

Hi All,

Since this is my favorite and just all-around best forum I’m a member of, I’m going to ask an ‘off-topic’ question….

I’m in Burbank CA. I want to learn about electricity and amplifier construction and repair. Can someone suggest a professional or organization that would teach me these things?

You can direct message me or reply here if you have any suggestions.

Thanks!

coop_301

Welcome! good to see you here today. We do have a few CS6 fans and owners on the Panel. Stay tuned until one of those guys chimes in to address your query.

Mr. Rob Gillum at CSS will be a great resource and can provide additional guidance on your purchase decision. I look forward in reading more about your musical tastes and system plan.

The ML 23.5 is a stone classic power amp. At it age, it could probably benefit from a tune up. A great ML resource is  Pyramid Audio in Austin Tx. 

If on the west coast, George Meyer AV in Los Angeles is another great Audio resource.

Happy Listening!

The Audiopoint was introduced in 1989. Around that time we made available the smooth barrell pressure fit brass point for select Thiel models. I checked today there are zero available.  Reference in time at my first home in '79 I used hardened steel points sold thru Linn dealers. I used these on Time Aligned  speaker prototypes developed by Ed Long. I remember Harry coming over for a listen.Soon after came the aluminum  TipToes from the Mod Squad.  Tom

Offering a third to Harry's second: All the early spikes are the same. Thiel "invented" spikes in the late 70s for the 03. If others were using spikes at that time, we didn't know about it. Remember, no internet. They were all the same 1/4" x 2" with free 1-1/4" available by request for hard floors. I don't remember when we added the friction O-ring and grip grooves, but then they all became that way. The exception was the 1989 CS5 (? and probably up-market models after 1995?) The CS5 was too top-heavy (and therefore potentially dangerous) for three-point support. We replaced the recessed plinth with a full-footpring base with 4 threaded pins on the corners. That pin is ø 5/16"x18 tpi with 4 wrench flats for adjustment with the included 1/4" wrench. Zero clearance, tight tolerance fit keeps the cabinet from squirming. The holes in the hardwood base are also threaded to supply resistance and obviate the need for a lock-nut. Fun with minimalist elegance both for these threaded pins as well as the normal slip pins where 3 points defines the plane and requires no adjustment.  

Vintage50 - I will second the info Tom Thiel gave you.  I have two sets of pointed spikes, one set from the 3.5 and another from a 2 2.  Both these spiked sets are 2" long and 1/4" in diameter.  So apparently Thiel was using "standard" spikes for several of their earlier models.  Incidentally, one set is the "naked" straight spike, the other has the "collar" and grooves Tom mentioned .... both are exactly the same 2" x 1/4".

Hi all, I'm looking for some advice on a Thiel purchase and hope you all can help me out.  I auditioned a local pair of CS6 yesterday and really enjoyed them- very natural sounding, room filling, detailed.  They had a ML23.5 in front of them.  I noticed on songs with sparse instrumentals, when bass was going I could hear some buzz coming from what I believe was the midrange on one speaker.  I'm attaching a link to a sample here.  I really liked the speakers and don't see them often near me, should I still get them, or steer clear?  What would a fair price be?  Would you recommend getting the 23.5 as well?  A friend told me about Rob, so I sent him an email last night to get his take.  Appreciate your thoughts on these, thanks very much!!  https://imgur.com/DFZFIEV 

Maybe something here for those dodging the cold the snowflakes and the latest covid variant... a way to pass the time with a deeper look into this hobby. Found this while searching for an illustration of multiple velocity stacks that could be applied to a new speaker design. Tom     Dan Russell's Acoustics and Vibration Animations (psu.edu)

asiaaudiosoc

I have both 2.3 and 2.4 for some time now. I’ve had my 2.3 coaxes replaced once (while real Thiel was still in business and they had production coaxes stocked), and 2.4 coaxes replaced several times. The most-recent replacements were soon after Rob was up and running. The sound improvement was substantial. Rob explained this as his rebuilding them by hand as a matched pair with more attention to detail than what they could achieve in a semi-mass production flow; the big improvements in adhesives since then; and some of his ’secret sauce’ in minor build improvements to the driver that improve its performance without altering its specifications. (surrounds? mid/tweet decoupler? tweeter dome? spider design? voice coil wire?)

So yes, I can confirm your observations. Now I want to see if the same magic can be applied to the sonically ’challenged’ 2.3 drivers!

asiaaudiosoc

Good to see you here again. Thank You for citing your experience with Rob at CSS.  Model CS 2.4 is a Honey of a loudspeaker. Flies well under the radar in performance and value.

Happy Listening!

There are a few posts with 2.3, 2.4 and Rob being mentioned. I had the coincident drivers in my 2.3i rebuilt by Rob twice - 2006 and 2017. In 2006 they did came back great. However something remarkable happened in the 2017 rebuild - they came back sounding so much better that I was stunned. Everything we love about Thiels became turbocharged and in addition there was now a body and richness to the sound that makes vocals and violin scarily realistic. I encourage 2.3/2.4 owners who might be thinking about an easy upgrade to give him a call.

Happy Friday! All

Got it. Thanks.

A 3.5 Bass equalizer is up for grabs over on eBay. $100

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theaudiotweak

Thank You for the Starsound Technologies pitch and representation.

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cascadesphil

Thank You for the links and post. Very helpful.

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tomthiel

Thank You for addressing vintage50 's query.

Happy Listening!

vintage50

Welcome! Good to see you here. The 3.5 is a very popular model and a fan fave here among the Panel. Stay tuned until on of our experts chime in to address your query. I look forward in reading more about your musical tastes and system.

Happy Listening!

Vintage50 - I have a set of CS3 spikes in hand and believe them to be the same size as the CS3.5. There are two sets, one pointed (for carpet) and the other rounded (for hard floor.)  Both are 1/4" diameter. Pointed are 2" long and rounded are 1.25" long. They slide into holes with plastic entry collars in the plinths, two at the rear and one at front center. My recollection is that we added some texture to the 3.5. Instead of being plain, they have a tiny O-ring in the center and some parallel grooves off center to keep them in the sockets, and to provide more purchase to remove them.

Sorry I don't have 3.5s on hand until they someday emerge from storage.

I am a member of Starsound Technologies the makers of the Audiopoint and Sistrum Platforms, speaker stands and audio racking..

Tom

I'm not sure of the exact size but there are charts on the web - e.g. (and I'm sure there are others

Herbie's Audio Lab

Sound City (which makes outriggers)

http://www.soundcare.no/threads.htm

Does anyone know the speaker spike size for the Thiel CS 3.5 speaker. If  I knew the thread size or where to get them at. Thanks 

cascadesphil

Thank You for the report. I am currently working in the Nashville area and the damage in TN is to the West of here.

Happy Listening!

tomthiel

Thank You for the report. Good to hear that your Family are safe and well.

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ovinewar1

Thank You for the report. Were you affected by the tornados ?

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All - I have family and friends in Lexington who report no damage there. Also, Rob's farm where he retreats to hunt and fish are farther east, away from the tornadoes. So we can assume he didn't get hit. However, I've still not heard from him in a long time.

unsound - the Sonic Frontier (model unknown) preamp driving the Krell FPB 600 is what I heard when auditioning the final prototype of the 2.7 compared with the reference 3.7 in Thiel's listening room on my 2012 visit to Lexington. I have personally never heard better, although I must admit I've never heard any ultra high priced offerings. 

Jim required amplification that he liked and that tested impeccably well. Those were his choices.

@tomthiel, though I'm typically firmly ensconced in the solid state camp, the Sonic Frontier's Line 3 tube line stage impressed the heck out of me. With its true balanced, DC coupled, low output impedance; makes an unusually good match with ss amps too.

Thanks Tom 

According to the maps (below), it doesn't look like they were hit but the damage was bad in other areas.

I won’t speak for Rob but most of the heavy damage was south to southwestern Ky.   I don’t believe Lexington area was hit hard. Regardless,  It was a raucous night for all of KY. 

tomthiel

Do we know if Rob and CSS were affected by the tornadoes over this past weekend? Any other members on the Panel live in Kentucky?

Happy Listening!

Fitter - I remember a long run with a Sonic Frontiers gold unit. But I’m not very confident in that memory or if it persisted till the end. Does Sonic Frontiers ring any bells?

jafant, a 'nice' thread, but not a totally accurate one wrt my assessments.  I'm sure I updated my impressions more than once since I've had both speakers in the same room in 2006 and since.  I'll be putting my late-production 2.3s up for sale soon.

Jafant agreed plenty of power with amazing detail and bass

Tom good to know .Do you  know what preamp he used back then? Thanks 

fitter468

Nice score! on the Krell FPB 600c power amp. No doubt that current and power are enough to drive those CS7 speakers properly.

Happy Listening!

sdecker

Good to see you here. That was a nice thread. I wonder if those guys are still enjoying both CS 2.3 and CS 2.4 loudspeakers in 2021 ?

Happy Listening!

Fitter - FWIW, that Krell is what Jim used to design the CS7s and I believe everything else for the next ten or so years.

Just picked up a krell fpb 600c to power my cs7s what an amazing amp! I hear detail and have clarity like I’ve never heard before.happy holidays 

Just ignore my pontifications about the differences between 2.3 and 2.4 on those 2005 threads, as they were made based on several hours in an audio showroom.  I've had both in my home now for 15 years and my opinions have 'matured.'

There's probably some info here about the changes to the later 2.3 tweeters

@tomthiel

3.5’s on EBay listed in NY. Rough shape and look to need new drivers. Bet they can be negotiated down in $

Thanks @pops. I'm pretty sure I'll stick with what I have. 

big_greg very nice system you have.  Congratulations!

If you do indeed prefer a more laid back presentation then Thiel's might not be the optimal choice.  Especially if you have room challenges.  I have found that Thiel's like space around them and really open up with 9 to 11 feet between them due to a very wide dispersion pattern.  

big_greg

Always good to see a Marantz KI Pearl owner. Not many of these Reference players were produced.

Happy Listening!

big_greg

Thank You for citing your Systems.  Nice gear all around.

Happy Listening!

@pops ​​​​@cascadesphil Thanks for the information.  I do like that "laid back" British sound, LOL.  I currently have Stirling LS3/6 in my main system and Harbeth P3ESR in another system. 

My Thiel 2.3 speakers appear to have the first generation tweeters.  They look like these:

In my main system I have Herron Audio M1 monoblocks (recently updated by Keith), Herron VTSP-360 preamp, Sota Sapphire, Herron VTPH-2A phono stage, Roon Nucleus/Aqua La Voce S3 DAC, Marantz KI Pearl SACD player.  

My room sucks.  I have some space limitations that keep me from getting the speakers too far out into the room, wood paneling, angled ceilings, and an irregular shape.  I do have some diffusion and absorption panels, but my system is a mixed home theater / two channel system, so there are also electronics and racks in between the speakers and a wall mounted TV up above.  Cabling is all good stuff, but a mish-mash of different brands, some Audioquest, some Kimber (no silver), and Verastarr or Duelund speaker cables.  I think the room accentuates any brightness in speakers, and there are a lot of reflection points.

I really love the way the 2.3s sound in my main system until I turn up the volume, then I want the Brits back in.  

pops

2nd Note- I believe that it is fair to report that Upstream of gear is important for every Thiel model. Especially, the newer CS 2.4, 2.4SE, 2.7 and 3.7 Loudspeakers.

Happy Listening!