Thiel Owners

I AM BACK PEEPS. Moved to a new much larger place that fits the thiels better. Just needs room treatment. Just got the pcs bookshelves that were for sale on ebay ordered  20 minutes ago and am excited to receive them. Tom, I have a new email by the way and would love to hear about anything new and recent.

abmeyer

Welcome! Our condolences for your Father. What an incredible inheritance!

You are fortunate to live in the DC corridor. Plenty of Audiophiles there. Thank You for posting here- I do not object in the least. Facebook is excellent. As well as the other "net" outlets.

Sidebar: Consider a consultation with Mr. Bill Thalmann at Music Technology

703.764.7005  He may know of a buyer as well.  Keep me posted on your selling process.

Happy Listening!

dmac67

Good to see you here again. Stay tuned until one of the Panel members chimes in on those 3.6 loudspeakers. We have quite a few fans and owners here. In general, Krell amplification is a sonic match. I look forward in reading more about your musical tastes.

Happy Listening!

I'm sure there are other sites but you can go here and get snapshots of websites at particular times - https://web.archive.org/web/*/thiel.com

Good afternoon - I figured this thread may have the answer to my somewhat odd question.  My father passed away and left a lovely set of Thiel speakers (and the rest of his audio gear).  I'm looking to find them a new home in the DC area.  A friend was going to post some pictures to their audiophile FB group and asked me to photograph the speakers.  I did that - but they wanted a picture that included the model number.  I believe they are CS-7s (based on comparing to pictures without the covers on) - but there is no model information on the back.  Any clue where I would find it?  Thanks!

I own a fully restored (by Krell in 2020) KSA 250s paired with a Krell KRC 3 preamp through balanced connections. Would this match well with a pair of CS 3.6? The KSA is rated at 2000 watts into 1 ohm.

Here is a link to the particular speakers. I asked about them awhile back and y’all discussed this pair. https://www.soundsgoodtomehouston.com/thiel36.html

Ii like speakers that I can feel as well as hear if that makes any sense. Do the 3.6’s move a lot of air? If I could get them for $1200 it seems like it would be an interesting experience.

My digital source is an Innuos streamer into an Ayre QB9 DSD dac also using balanced connections.

Thanks in advance for any opinions.

lennycaroli

Welcome! Good to see you here today. Stay tuned until one of the Panel members here or Mr. Rob Gillum at CSS can advise. The SS1 and SS2 are still quite popular after all these years. Still available around the internet marketplaces too! Tell me more about your Full Thiel system and musical tastes.

Happy Listening!

Manuals, including later updates for the SS2 can be found at Hifiengine - https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/thiel-audio/ss2.shtml

Lenny - your LFE hookup may have caused the failure. It is also possible that you just blew a fuse. Look around and see what you find. 

We have not located those schematics after New Thiel moved to Nashville. As background, there are two functions, the amp, and all of Jim's boundary location correction circuitry. We can hope it's in the amp.

TT

Good morning,

I’m an happy owner of a full Thiel system. Last week, my SS2 sub front led become red and since then no sound is coming out from the sub.
Have any of you got this issue?

Do you know what is the meaning of the color of the front Led? I do not find any info in the manual.

Has someone the schematics of the amplifier in order to have an hope to repair it?

Can this be generated by the fact that, connecting back my SS2 sub to the preamp, I wrongly used the LFE out connection instead of the LFE input? 
 

I already sent a message to Coherent Source Services and I’m waiting for an answer. Reading the previous posts it seems he can not help on SW amp issues…

thank you for your support,

Lenny

jafant - "There is something to be said about staying focused on One’s strong suit in Audio."

There was a turning point in the early 90s where we could have concentrated more on our home turf of high performance / accessibly priced stereo . . . or addressed the recording industry. Those options felt more right to me. Kathy managed the dealers and she was lobbied hard to address the emerging home theater market. We had introduced the SCS in 1990 which was a HT natural and Jim had always wanted to solve some of the inherent problems of subwoofers. Jim related strongly to bass as music's foundation.

He co-developed a class D bass amp with Birger Jorgensen at Vifa before Class D was much of a thing. That project consumed extensive time and resources that might have been spent on hi-fi projects. That custom amp powered Thiel’s first SW series subwoofers, which required him to troubleshoot and repair them due to lack of general knowledge in the field. The slippery slope.

Thiel’s further HT products worked OK in the marketplace, but they fundamentally changed how we approached our business. There was CEDIA and a host of new market considerations and different dealers. There was Chinese sourcing to meet market price expectations. There was simultaneous co-development of multiple products with differing specifications / tolerance requirements.

At the heart of the matter is that Thiel Audio existed primarily as a platform to enable Jim to design products; and more products provided more design challenges. So it worked, in that respect; but, on the other hand, there was less focused attention available for deep diving.

In hind-sight it’s interesting to me that various ’observers’ counseled us to ’stick to the knitting’. I agreed, and I withdrew. It comes down to what the lead man wants. Jim wanted to exercise his abilities producing innovative musical products that mattered. Diving deeper would have required a larger R&D team. And that was never in the cards.

jazzman7

It is really a shame that  more reviews of the CS 2.4SE exist.

Happy Listening!

Hello everyone! Its been far too long since I last checked in. I hope everyone is doing well and enjoying their Thiel speakers. I am glad to see the thread continuing to go strong. 

I was talking to jafant offline yesterday about my setup and I mentioned to him that I would be selling one of my REL Carbon Limited subwoofers. He suggested I put a comment here to help get the ball rolling so that is what I am doing. If you are looking for a sub or know someone who is please send them my ad. I appreciate any help and or interest in my sub or critique/criticism of the listing. Thanks!

Enjoy the Music has posted a nice review from 2009 revisiting the CS 2.4SE.

https://www.enjoythemusic.com/superioraudio/equipment/0409/thiel_cs24se.htm

tomthiel

Thank You for a little parts cost comparison and its relationship with Retail pricing.

We all can hardly await for the 1st speaker to roll off your assembly line. I am a later bloomer having learned about Thiel Audio in 2012. I am a quick study.  Most of the Panel members are grateful for Jim not following the H/T trend of the 1990's.

There is something to be said about staying focused on One's strong suit in Audio.

Happy Listening!

beetlemania

Right On! Vandersteen and Wilson Audio are still cutting-edge, SOTA.

I hope that you are well. If Charlie Hansen(RIP) were alive today, it would be interesting to watch his creations as well. Add AYRE to the list.

Happy Listening!

tomic601

Thank You for pricing the Kento at $40K. It is an impressive loudspeaker system.

I dare say that I like it better than the Series 7. Still, I paid $3500- for my sweet CS 2.4SE loudspeakers. No contest. And I quite a large sum of money left over for other components.

Happy Listening!

The Kento are low 40’s. You get powered subs built in w 11 bands of EQ and tge 7 midrange / tweeter matched to .5 db ( the 7 is matched to .25 db ) The 7 Extreme employs Kento bass driver arrangement.  IF one were to apply some critical thinking to where Jim T would be today, you could forsee him making many of the same design and execution choices made by Vandersteen ( many people don’t have a clear understanding of the mutal respect, friendship, time spent together w Dick Hardesty ). I see Jim continuing to invest in bespoke drivers, awesome capacitors that earn way on to speaker w sonic virtue, pistonic motion, low diffraction, time and phase and tge heavy technology investment required to build an inert low coloration cabinet , add in built for the most part in USA, stir in how many years of inflation and a $50 k JT product in the market is hardy far fetched…

Just my $1.50

I miss Charlie..RIP

I imagine Thiel having concentrated on hi fi product refinement rather than the tremendous investments and demands of addressing home theater. Not only would the state of the art have been stretched, but the internal workings of the company would have been more manageable.
 

I sincerely believe Jim Thiel made some of the best drivers out there. IMO, only more recent and far more expensive offerings from Vandersteen, TAD, and Vivid are appreciably superior. In your alternate universe, a CS7.2 or CS3.7 with SOTA passive parts and, maybe, Wilson-like budget on cabinet materials would have elevated those models from outstanding to cutting edge.

I hope to some day hear the CS5, all the more if it has received your upgrades. IME, the highest quality bass is produced by a sealed box. Eg, the 30 year old Avalon Ascent has the best bass definition I’ve heard. Well, probably matched by the Vandy 7 which also has SOTA bass extension.

JA - budgets are fascinating things. At Thiel, we never entertained trying to satisfy someone who had $six figures to spend. We tried for a performance plateau that fit ourselves and our projections of our imagined customers.

There are real improvements to be had. A great cap can cost $1000+ which could add $10K retail to a pair with normal manufacture and distribution markups. Wade through that labyrinth of focusing the next performance plateau and each product might go for something like triple the original sell price. I’m presently working with those equations.

As an example: among the many possible thought-problems - imagine a tricked-out CS5 with its same or slightly updated drivers but with 2 major upgrade foci.

1: Replace the bucket brigade delays in the two midrange drivers with physical displacement.

2: Upgrade the signal caps to CSA and resistors to MRA-12s.

The XO part count would drop to half and the sound quality would soar. That’s on my to-do list. The present CS5 owner already has the platform and upgrades don’t need the 2X retail markup.

Note that the physical baffle part of that CS5 upgrade might have happened except for the tumult caused by the rampant conversion from hi-fi to home theater in the 1990s. In an alternate universe, I imagine Thiel having concentrated on hi fi product refinement rather than the tremendous investments and demands of addressing home theater. Not only would the state of the art have been stretched, but the internal workings of the company would have been more manageable. That’s second-guessing reality. In fact, I don’t know if Thiel would have survived those market changes without jumping on the HT bandwagon. Anyhow, we are pushing the ball up the hill, a small step at a time.

tomthiel

An update: the Wilson Audio Alexx, is now, Alexx V at $135-151,000 retail.

When I tell you guys that it takes much more money to beat a Thiel Audio speaker, I am not joking around.

Sidenote:

I do  not know the retail pricing of a Vandy Kento model? I am sure that pricing is mid- 5 figures.

Happy Listening!

Happy Friday! All

beartunes

Welcome! Nice inheritance gear!  Are you looking to move up to a new System?

I believe that there is at least 1 member of the Panel in your locale. Stay tuned until he chimes in to address your query.  Yes, Anthem, is a sonic match for Thiel loudspeakers. Model 225 Integrated amp does a very nice job from CS 2.4 up to CS 3.7

Happy Listening!

@jafant 

I realize this is an old Thiel thread that I'm attempting to reigniting.

I have recently inherited a pair of vintage Thiel 3.5 speakers with an Anthem Mac 20 amp, plus the Anthem TLP 1 pre-am,, an excellent super sonic match for the Thiels.

I am interested in finding a Portland OR audiophile who would be interested in  the trio.

Thank you,

AK

mrfizziks - I would have to do a web search. Rob would know. BTW, Rob is working toward getting help to keep up with business. If necessary, we could plug in a CS1 woofer, which is conceptually and practically the same driver with some Thiel refinements. I could compare the XO circuits for compatibility. But, first try to run down the original Credence. I know we had rebuild kits at one time . . .

petaluman

Thiel-philes - I love the terminology. Good to see you here again.

What gear is in your system?

Happy Listening!

tomic601

Thank You for more AYRE/Thiel/Vandy comparisons. It is good to have another well-rounded member of the Panel. Last year, I had an opportunity to demo the Kento loudspeaker(closest to my CS 2.4SE by Vandy). I actually liked it better than the Model 7 series.

Happy Listening!

beetlemania

Always a pleasure to have you here as my fellow AYRE Brother as well.

Happy Listening!

tomthiel

Thank You for another Thiel Audio history lesson. So could consider Kentucky an odd place for Audio. Same can be said for Utah, at least, the state of Kentucky is Horse country.  I figured you and Dave (RIP) visited each other via Audio shows back then.

A pleasure to have you here as well. Keep developing and researching.

Happy Listening!

mrfizziks

Welcome! Good to see you here today. Continue to contact Mr. Rob Gillum via CSS website. He is a 1-Man operation and fans like us keep him busy in Lexington, KY.

I look forward in reading more about your musical taste and system.

Happy Listening!

Thanks Tom Thiel, I will try again with Rob at Css.

BTW, any idea if those Credence 6Cs are still sold?

@beetlemania For sure ! Dont sell the amazing VX-R amplifier short. Mine was excellent, especially w Twenty modifications. I recently added a Sub3 with Kento grade teflon caps with DBS high pass filters to my Treo system. The high pass does amazing things for midrange clarity…more Thielists would imo greatly benefit from this approach and the filters are adjustable w built in DIP switches to hit < 80 hz if desired.

another tip for others building or modifying crossovers, log cap leads and no conformal coating and or damping = ring…ring…ring… which some ( many ? ) confuse with air or extension…

Wonder coat if available is a place to start…

best to all

Jim

@goldbehen - I’ll go so you don’t get left in the dust. It can pile up quickly here.

The 3.5s, like all Thiel speakers are designed to be wide-dispersion transducers. So their off-axis environment is more critical than many other designs. They should be well away from boundaries, particulars depending on your room size, proportions, materials, etc. If you don’t have the setup manual, it may be online, or specific questions can be addressed here. In general try for at least 2’, preferably 3-4’ from tweeter plate to wall behind and at least 3’, preferably more to side wall with those two dimensions being different from each other.

I am only guessing about your ’wall cavities’, but any hard edges near the speaker will add diffraction distortion. A niche behind the speaker may provide an opportunity for absorption or diffraction treatment to help reduce diffraction.

If you mate with a subwoofer, try using the 40Hz EQ setting as your crosspoint.

Good luck and keep up posted.

TT

I share your bias @tomic601 

If I win the lottery, probably go straight to Vandy 7 and MX-Rs. Until then, very happy with my modded 2.4s and AX-5. IME, gotta spend a lot of money to shore up the few weaknesses of my system. In fact, the most cost effective fix would be to add Vandy Sub 3s which would shore up bass extension and definition. But not motivated to add two more large boxes to my living room.

Charlie had it right. he used Vandy model 7 to wring out his designs and RV in turn ran MXR for years while developing his M7 amplifier… of course as a 7 and 7 owner, I am biased…

The Wilson approach has certainly won the day
 

Could be argued their success is partly an artifact of their pricing. Here is Charles Hansen’s take on Fremer (and most of the audio press, by extension; from an audioasylum post):

a) The more expensive the product, the better it must be. 
b) Wilson loudspeakers are the best on the planet, presumably because they play really loud, have super spectacular bass thump created by the +10dB bump they all exhibit at 70Hz, and are ungodly expensive (see (a) above). 
 

@tomthiel thanks to you and Jim for bringing a superb level of performance at price points that most can afford!

Again, Charles Hansen from an audioasylum post:

The high-end wouldn't be where it is today without the contributions of Jim Thiel and Richard Vandersteen.

jafant - first a disclaimer. I have no real experience with the WATT or any other Wilson products, beyond interested observation. My connection is primarily one of curiosity. The WATT has been considered an audiophile reference from its beginning, and called such by JA in Stereophile. It turns up in very discriminating systems and spaces. My curiosity revolves primarily around what all of us at Thiel would hear from it and see in its measurements, which is a flawed design, a broken speaker (in its early iterations), from our point of view. The WATT/PUPPY illuminates by contrast how Thiel never really fit into the high end mindset. We required even-handed solutions to all identifiable aspects of performance and cost, whereas much of high end tolerates and even extols excellence in some areas regardless or at the expense of other aspects. 

The Wilson approach has certainly won the day. Most high end speakers would flunk Jim Thiel's first-pass analysis. They are plain wrong in many ways while being outstandingly good in some ways or other. But Thiel didn't engage in competitive analysis - at all. We had our hands full doing our own thing, independent of whatever 'the market' or 'the times' seemed to relate to.

David Wilson was a star. His audiophile recordings were extremely good. He with his soprano wife Cheryl moved in high circles. He had a ready audience and nearly demanded respect. On the contrary, at our first 1977 CES we came out with a lovely corner suite, and garnered a positive, encouraging response from many attendees; but there was no safety net. I remember an establishment industry person asking to general amusement why we were 'here'. 'Shouldn't you be barefoot and pregnant back home?' Kentucky wasn't seen as legitimate compared with the genesis of most aspiring companies. I'm not complaining, Thiel received solid, constant support and encouragement from the audio press along with pioneering dealers who wanted something different, what we wanted to provide. My point I guess is that if we had come from Kentucky with products that contained the design shortcomings of early Wilson products, we would have been summarily dismissed.

My comments are more general sociological observations than any particular analysis of any particular products. The marketplace is an ecosystem unto itself and companies make their ways however they can from wherever they begin. Wilson was a trail-blazer into a different sphere than where Thiel lived. We lived where we were comfortable, creating products we hoped would bring value to people with whom we identified.

And here we are. What a pleasure to be here.

mrfizziks - Rob at CSS is swamped. Best approach is thru his website. Keep trying.

Your tweeters are Polydax HD130x105D34E and your woofers are Credence 6C 16PP1.

I’m in need of new mid/bass drivers for my Thiel 04As, Coherent doesnt answer phone or emails now.  Any ideas?  Help much appreciated!

tomthiel

Can you tell us more about your connection with the Wilson Audio WATT ?

Happy Listening!

goldbehen

Welcome! Good to see you here tonight. Owning Power Planes, 3.5 and CS 2.4, you certainly have the Thiel bases covered. Stand by until a Panel member chimes in about 3.5's being in a corner. The CS 2.4 will not sound as accurate placed in a corner. 

Take the time to read though this thread. There is a plethora of information that addresses all of the speakers in your room/system. I look forward in reading more about musical tastes and system gear.

Happy Listening!

tomthiel

Thank You for the kind words and participation here. Yes, I have my finger on the pulse to be sure. As I have reported many, many times here, it takes quite a large sum of Money to better my CS 2.4SE loudspeakers. Incredible!

My 1st demo  of CS 2.4SE are Serial Numbers (50/51). Knowing now what I did not know, back then, makes me want them even more!

An enhanced CS 2.4 loudspeaker sounds wonderful.

Happy Listening!

Hi fellow Thiel owners. Long time owner here. I have power plane 1.2's , 3.5's and 2.4's. A couple questions  regarding the 3.5's being used as home theater speakers.  I  have an early model SVS subwoofer with the thiel EQ plugged in. A B&K 200 watt power amp is powering Thiels. 

2. My dedicated theater room has a stage area with wall cavities on either side of the screen. I was using some  infinities which seemed happy in corner cavities . Their cone enclosures need replacement so I figured I'd try the 3.5's. Enclosed in the corner wall cavities  they seemed a bit muffled. I moved them out about 2 ft from the corner walls and about a foot in front of the rear wall. this puts them on the stage on either side of the screen. Kind of works with improved sound but not blending in with the surrounding décor. They have passed the movie audition as far as being able to reproduce movie effects at high decibels. The movie Dune has been a good demo. 

 Am I trying to make something work that isn't meant for this application. It feels like I'm taking a luxury range rover and using like a 4wd pickup. Might work for a while but eventually somethings gonna break. Also is there anyway these could be made to sound better in the corners? Enjoying this thread. Great resource!

jafant - your audio interest is immense! I, on the other hand, have very little experience outside the realm of Thiel. I believe that some day you might become a candidate for an enhanced CS2.4. 

beetle - I think their hall ambience retrieval is real rather than an artifact. Consider that a large portion of speakers have the 100Hz bump, but don't 'hear' the hall. I suspect that Wilson's heroically quiet enclosures along with their ultra high quality crossover components reduce low-level spuriae enough to allow perception of deep musical subtleties. 

Those kinds of parameters are some of what I'm addressing, while keeping an eye on classic Thiel value/cost constraints. Our collective outcomes are promising and encouraging to me.

Continued (work interruption)

In house at Audio Advice, I auditioned the Sasha and Sophia loudspeakers. 

Still, not as rich in presentation and sound to a CS 2.4 model. Across the street is Audio Excellence. Here I would run the table with CS 2.4, 2.4SE (the clear winner), CS 2.7 and CS 3.7 models. I would visit these guys again in 2014 and the owner would not sell the CS 2.4SE. All other models were for sale.

Over the last 3 years, I have heard Wilson Audio Alexx, Sasha DAW and Sabrina for reference. These particular speakers are far better than original Sasha and Sophia by a wide margin. The Alexx does have the richness of my CS 2.4SE for $100K. Then , there is the cabling , gear, and room  to match.  

Happy Listening!