I just scored a sweet pair of CS 2.4SE loudspeakers. Anyone else currently or previously owned this model? Owners of the CS 2.4 or CS 2.7 are free to chime in as well. Thiel are excellent w/ both tubed or solid-state gear!
Thanks! for sharing- William. hope your B.A.T. is settling well into your system. I checked out the Ginger Baker tune that you suggested- excellent Jazz track. Feel free to mention more tracks for testing one's system. Enjoy the Fall season. Happy Listening!
I looked at the pictures of your room , It looks like something out of a magazine , beautiful. The Autograph wall is really something , COOL very COOL .
What is your favorite Rush album ? Do you favor the Mercury pressings over the Anthem ? Is there a greatest hits you recommend ?
Thanks Rob. There are autographs that go all the way upstairs that you don't see.
My personal favourite is Permanent Waves (PW), with Moving Pictures a close second. Most of my LPs are the Anthem ones, and I've duplicated a number of them with the new 180g versions that came out this past year (Abby Road remasters?). I can't say I'm particularly impressed, but the vinyl is clean. I also have a copy of the Mobile Fidelity Labs' remastering of PW which I listen to often. I don't think I've heard a Mercury pressing.
Probably the most unique one I have is Archives, which has a printing faux-pas of Bruce Springsteen's Born to Run as the inner gatefold.
Looking at the compilation albums (of which I have none), I would probably go with either Chronicles or Gold.
In spite of my appreciation for BAT, I still believe that Pass Labs is one of, if not the best matches for Thiel. I just received my Reno Hifi 2018 calendar which also included a new Pass Brochure and I’m so...grrrr. We’re I a wealthier man...
But another point is that used Pass, like Thiel, represent true audiophile bargains for folks like me-self. I keep looking...
I looked at the pictures of your room , It looks like something out of a magazine , beautiful. The Autograph wall is really something , COOL very COOL .
What is your favorite Rush album ? Do you favor the Mercury pressings over the Anthem ? Is there a greatest hits you recommend ?
Come on guys. This has been common knowledge for a long time. "The Emperor Has No Clothes". I have enjoyed this thread. I love my Thiels and we all need to keep communicating.
Thanks! for chiming in-Warren. I hope claero's amp is working properly. The HCA series is both powerful and high current John Curl designs. Happy Listening!
I have often thought about the combo of an older Parasound HCA and Thiel speakers. I have heard the HCS 3500 and Bryston 7B ST/SST models , only in different systems. Keep comparing the (2) amps and posting your listening experiences. Happy Listening!
i never imagine parasound will do this great with thiel . any of u using parasound ? i currently using bryston 7bst at this moment .
by the way i blown my mcs1 tweeter again . thinking not to do it at thiel because it just contiune to blown .sad.......
I use a Parasound A52 5-ch. amp to power 4 PSB Imagine Minis (surrounds) and a Thiel MCS1 (centre).
As for the blown tweeter (again), if you've fried the voice coil, that sounds like a clipping problem in the amp—if I understand the physics correctly.
I had the simular problem with the center stage , toe-in solved my problem , it took listening to classical music to fine tune it, the speakers are pointing about 16 inches out from each ear. Speaker placement and toe-in are personal and a great discussion . the Prof has his speakers 8 feet apart and sits less than 7 feet away and no toe-in, you have yours 80 inches and sit 100 inches away , toe-in ?
I've tried to get into Rush , a few songs maybe but I just can't. You have created an interest in Pierre Bensusan after listening to allmusic's snippets of him, never heard of him before so thanks.
I had a very insightful workshop with Pierre, on right-hand guitar technique, decades ago. To me, Rush only sounded good (particularly the drums) when Terry Brown was producing. Basically, anything before Signals (1982).
The tweeters are pointing ~30 inches outside each ear, so maybe ~5-10 degrees toe-in? Cannot be bothered to do the trigonometry.
I started from the Cardas' room node formula and adjusted from there. I could incorporate the near field equilateral triangle as well, and move the seating closer, but then I'd be sitting too close to the projection screen (120" wide). Everything's a compromise.
i just try a parasound hca3500 with my thiel cs6 . the result was quite good . high was detail and laid back , mid was thick , and especially the low was crazy as hell . i never imagine parasound will do this great with thiel . any of u using parasound ? i currently using bryston 7bst at this moment .
by the way i blown my mcs1 tweeter again . thinking not to do it at thiel because it just contiune to blown .sad.......
I know! It's one reason I've been so shy on putting one of my Thiels up for sale. Given the fact they seem to have dried up on the used market in terms of availability, it feels like it would be quite a final decision to get rid of my 3.7s. Unlike, say, Quads or something that you'll always be able to find easily again.
BTW, I contacted Rob Gillum and he has all the drivers for the Thiels, including the 2.7s. That's good for me as I'm pretty much convinced I won't be giving up these 2.7s. They sound glorious and look perfect in my room - I'd never find another pair on the ebony finish. So I may grab a spare coax/woofer/passive radiator for the 2.7s, and if I keep the 3.7s I might do the same for them.
I have used the Cardas golden rule using the near field formula, When I got to 8 foot wide ( as suggested in the Thiel owners manual ) I had the simular problem with the center stage , toe-in solved my problem , it took listening to classical music to fine tune it, the speakers are pointing about 16 inches out from each ear. Speaker placement and toe-in are personal and a great discussion . the Prof has his speakers 8 feet apart and sits less than 7 feet away and no toe-in, you have yours 80 inches and sit 100 inches away , toe-in ?
I've tried to get into Rush , a few songs maybe but I just can't. You have created an interest in Pierre Bensusan after listening to allmusic's snippets of him, never heard of him before so thanks.
Back to Classical Sunday , just finished Beethoven's 1st and 9th by Fritz Reiner & CSO.
arniespin- regarding Rogue Audio, the Stereo100 and M-180 are popular amps to use w/ the CS 3.7 model. Are you able to get an audition there in NYC/NJ ? Happy Listening!
Warren, your one of the lucky few that own a 2.4SE model and it sounds like judging from your measurements you must have a large room. Have you tried moving them out a little further apart ? Only the Indigo Girls song is familiar to me , buy coincidence I listened to thier second album earlier , it’s Friday Folk for me. I don’t have any of the albums by other artist you mentioned.
The room is about 14’ x 23’. You can see it in the Virtual Systems.
Oh I’ve played with the positioning of these, and my previous Thiels, extensively. I could always get decent soundstage and imaging regardless; but was never convinced by the vocals. i.e. the wider spacing always made it seem like the singer’s mouth was a foot wide, and accompanying guitars were 6 feet long.
I reassessed the positioning by using the Cardas placement equation as a starting point, and readjusted from there--4" farther apart, and 2" closer to the front wall. So yes, the dimensions break the golden triangle, but it seems to work, and impresses me with the most realistic aural output. Soundstage width is never a problem, as these speakers (unlike most others I’ve heard) push right to the side walls when appropriate.
As for the music:
Pierre Bensusan - Awali From the album Wu Wei, the French version of this Folk/New Age song features solo acoustic guitar and bass, with layered vocal tracks and percussive sounds. I use it to test image size, voice distinction, and Pierre’s tenor articulation (he has a slight speech impediment).
Olivia Newton-John - Warm and Tender This is a relatively unknown album of nursery rhymes and light AOR songs from the late 80’s. She uses her softer breath voice exclusively on it. It’s really close-miced, and sounds like she’s singing 2 feet from your face.
Rush - Red Barchetta From 1981’s classic rock album, Moving Pictures, the headphonic quality of the bridge pushes the limit of soundstage width. "Wind in my hair..."
Deadmau5 - Sofi Needs a Ladder This is an EDM (electronic dance music) track that can punish a system with the punchiness of the bass and sibilance in the vocals. There’s a lot going on here with its 3D density, and nontraditional instrument placement. Not for everyone.
Rammstein - Los The original version from Reise Reise is my preferred test track of a audio store’s tolerance for continuous rolling bass notes and German industrial metal. This tells me a lot about room interaction and whether there’s enough absorption and decay occurring. Also, there’s rim ringing from the snare drum hits that many speakers miss. Plus there’s harmonica!
The reason I went for the BAT over a more powerful Rogue model was twofold; 1.) One just wasn’t available at the time and 2.) I like swapping out stuff as quickly as possible and getting a decent enough trade-in toward the BAT expedited that. Easy peasey.
The biggest difference is the Goertz speaker cables. Slapping them in over the Transparent resulted in the 3.6’s being more defined in the bass. It’s kind of funny how much I carp about bass reproduction, or how we carp about it concerning loudspeakers in general. While I’m not a “bass” guy - I like “bright” - Thiel and Maggies get it so right that many other brands pale in comparison. Maggies lack it far more than Thiel, but both, to my ears, just sound natural. The ported Totem Hawks I had were truly good speakers but the bass was far more colored, kind of emphasized, whereas any Thiel I’ve owned just sounds right.
We all have to employ a certain degree of “forgive and live” with anything we buy. Listening space, aesthetics, significant others, finances, etc. I will say that Thiel is about 10% forgive and live whereas any other component I’ve had is around 50%. Thiels stick, amps and stuff have come and gone.
Would love to hear any other recommendations for tube power amps in the 100-200 wpc range that could be had for under 2k on the used market? Anything that might be a nice match for Thiels...
I believe the 3.7 came with cones and the outriggers were an add-on. The original owner of my 3.7s lost the outriggers, so I went with replacements from Soundocity, which are great.. beautifully built, solid as a rock, and allow easy leveling adjustments via a knob on the top.
oblgny... Yes, the Cronus Magnum was a great little integrated. With its beefy transformers and power supply it could definitely drive some pretty demanding speakers. The Stereo-100 has an even more massive power supply and with its cuad of kt120s, might be a nice match with the 3.7s.
What’s funny is that the 3.5s sounded great with my Sherwood’s at 80wpc. I did keep the EQ in the 40hz-20khz setting to tame the low basss..
Saffron_ Boots Warren, your one of the lucky few that own a 2.4SE model and it sounds like judging from your measurements you must have a large room. Have you tried moving them out a little further apart ? Only the Indigo Girls song is familiar to me , buy coincidence I listened to thier second album earlier , it's Friday Folk for me. I don't have any of the albums by other artist you mentioned.
Arniespin I thought that the 3.7s came with outriggers as standard equipment, like the 2.4SEs . Maybe other 3.7 owners can answer that one. They are something that I would like to have for my 2.7s but not at the $500 price tag that Thiel is asking.
I once had the Rogue Cronus Magnum Integrated a while back and I dug it like a shovel. I believe I had it going with a pair of Totem Rainmakers and a small REL sub. I very well might have sold that off when I got my 3.5’s and figgered mo’ juice was better.
Totem makes some impressive stuff. I’ve had their Hawks as well - two pairs at different times. Stupid, yes - then again I’ve had 3, count em, three pairs of 3.5’s in the last few years. Totem was fine, but I found the Hawks bass somewhat artificial sounding, but comparing to Thiel isn’t really fair!
Hope everyone is enjoying great tunes on sweet sounding Thiels!
I myself am liking these 3.7s so much that I’m getting ready to list my lovely 3.5s :) only one set of Thiels at a time for me in my NYC apartment!
Also, came to the realization that my old reliable Sherwood’s weren’t quite up to the task of powering the 3.7s. I’m currently running them with a loaner Rogue Audio Medusa hybrid tube/class-D amp that feeds them about 350w into 4 ohms. Incredibly wide soundstage, spacious detailed top-end and slamming precise bass. Missing perhaps a little of the luscious mids that tubes do so nicely. I do really like how well the Rogue “sound” complements the Thiels. Might try something like their Stereo-100 sometime down the line.
Well, if you are soliciting opinions: I prefer to spend money on something that is actually likely to have an audible impact. But that kind of opinion tends to fall on deaf ears in the audiophile tweak world, and I ain't gonna tell someone else how to spend their money.
In the 40 or so years that I’ve been buying “hifi” I’ve never blown a speaker nor a fuse. In all this time I’ve never given a single thought about a fuse’s impact on the sonics of my gear - which is not to say that I doubt there might be some, but nothing about a fuse that wasn’t already deigned by the manufacturer to be sufficient for its product has ever caused me to think, “gee, am I missing something?”
I recently saw the new SR “blue” fuse offered here and I asked a question regarding their only offering a 6.3A 250v sku when my integrated calls for a replacement of 6A 250v. I’m curious about trying this “tweak” to better my system, but unless I’m mistaken isn’t it foolish/dangerous to replace a fuse with one of a higher amperage?
This might not be the correct thread to ask, but I trust us reasonable Thiel owners. I have a hard time wrapping my head around some of the tweaks out there, including some of those made by my favorite cable company, Synergistic Research. I can't keep from coming across so many praises for their fuses however, and I see that Scott Walker Audio is offering 3 blue fuses for the price of 2 during the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest. Do any of the followers of this thread use aftermarket fuses? I do periodically remove all non-soldered connections including plugs, tubes, and fuses and reconnect, and I have even used Kontak Audio Cleaning Fluid. Are theses audiophile fuses better than either ensuring the contacts are free of oxidation or simply replacing with new commercial grade fuses? Thanks, Jon
Much Thanks! for the follow -up William. I have been active in these Audio forums since 2001. I have read over thousands of hours as you can imagine. I read about audiophiles using both Goertz and Purist Audio Designs (PAD) concurrently. There seems to be a connection there? I have yet to audition either brand. Good to read that something as simple as switching a cable or power cord brings about change (for the better) in your system. Keep posting listening impressions as you re-acclimate your senses as above. Happy Listening!
A pretty good while back. I still have two pairs of shorter Goertz Veracity that I used with my cheap-seats Musical Fidelity monoblocks on my 3.5's. I think I had an ARC linestage back then. Probably.
I don't remember what the Goertz replaced when I did that, but the difference between Transparent/Goertz now is VERY obvious, with the Goertz my preference. My 3.6's definitely require a higher listening level than the 3.5's did to shine. And not by much, either. The Goertz bring out the detail and "pressure" even at my standard level. THAT's what I was missing initially with the 3.6's.
The 3.5 and 3.6 are VERY different speakers. As I creep up the Thiel line - money and opportunity permitting - this lesson has taught me well. Sometimes simply maintaining one's previous cables doesn't mean your new speakers will show best. My appreciation/familiarity with/for Thiel just told me something was slightly amiss with my appreciation for the 3.6. The Goertz seem to have solved this for me.
Yes I did spot those white 3.5 speakers on eBay-William
As I cable guy first and foremost, I venture to say that experimenting w/ cabling is highly advised. One may come across that magical combo that cannot be denied. Some audiophiles swear by the whole short-vs-long cabling lengths- let your ears be your guide.
How long has it been since you last heard the Goertz Alpha in your system? Happy Listening!
Measured from the centre of the Thiel logo at the base of the 2.4SE speaker: 41" to side wall 55" from front wall 80" apart 100" to listening position
Recordings: Pierre Bensusan "Awali" Indigo Girls "Let It Be Me" Olivia Newton-John "Warm and Tender" Rush "Red Barchetta" Deadmau5 "Sophie Needs a Ladder" Rammstein "Los"
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