I just scored a sweet pair of CS 2.4SE loudspeakers. Anyone else currently or previously owned this model? Owners of the CS 2.4 or CS 2.7 are free to chime in as well. Thiel are excellent w/ both tubed or solid-state gear!
Jafant, I do hope you get to hear the STR with your Thiel’s before committing to it. I wouldn’t exactly agree that it’s “very powerful”, not with your Thiel’s at least. Look at the specs below 4 Ohms, both the integrated and the SRT power amp seem to drop current output fairly dramatically (for ss) below 4 Ohms, which is where your 2.4’s reside from 100 Hz straight through past 20 KHz. Below 100 Hz the 2.4’s impedance curve is a bit of a roller coaster ride with some challenging phase angles too. It’s power output below 4 Ohms is comparable to a less than 138 Watts per channel amp that could truly double down to 2 Ohms. Of course, depending on room, source material and desired listening volumes, either could be satisfactory. Personally I would be concerned about depreciation purchasing one of these new.
now, the fun really begins as I start pondering a CD/SACD spinner and cabling that ties it all together. I have only heard Anthem gear w/ Audioquest cabling (older models). Other than Audioquest, I have spent the most time with Transparent Audio cabling (I do not know if this brand is a sonic match?).
Class A/B according to the website. Most important of all, this amp is hand built, 100% in-house, Canada. I did verify with Anthem directly. Happy Listening!
Good catch- unsound and marqmike. The CS 2.4 does not have a powered woofer section. It does not need one, in my opinion. All listening was conducted w/o any subwoofer. This was my first introduction to Goldenear speakers. The Ribbon tweeter really shines and images well. The soundstage had plenty of depth and width in appropiate manner. All instruments exhibited proper texture with excellent separation, space and air. Still, Thiel captures a more naturally rich timbre.
Thank You- nutty yes, this amp is very powerful. The music just flowed without any effort to my ears. I started at level 30.0 on the volume. Then increased to 20.0, certainly loud at this point. By the time I reached 15.0, the sound was as loud as I wanted. The Anthem 225 is no slouch as we all know. The STR represents the next evolution of integrated amp. A killer DAC is on-board for those who want to go computer audio/streaming route.
In 2018, the Integrated amp has certainly come-of-age. And this is simply one company for example. Think about those other offerings at the $10k level and up to the $20k level. Happy Listening!
Thanks for taking time to audition the STR and for the well written report. It appears that Anthem has once again produced a high quality, high powered and reasonably priced Integrated amp.
I would like to hear more feedback when you receive your unit. I am interested in hearing your impressions of the STR driving speakers without a powered woofer section, such as your Thiels. Good luck on your purchase!
2nd Note; CDs used during audition- Jamie Cullum- Twentysomething (2004) Verve Pearl Jam - Ten (1991) Epic Nirvana - Unplugged Live in New York (1993) DGC
SACDs used during audition; The Rolling Stones -Hot Rocks 1 - (2002) Abkco Pink Floyd - DSOTM - 30th anniversary edition (2003) Capitol Pink Floyd - WYWH - (2012) APO Journey - Greatest Hits - (2001) Columbia Tsuyoshi Yamamoto Trio - Autumn in Seattle - (2001) FIM
unsound- ask and you shall receive my audiophile friend. Last week I had the distinct listening pleasure of auditioning Anthem's new STR Integrated amp. My dealer/retailer is Cohen's Electronics. These guys have been in business for 5 decades and back in the 1990's were a real audio/hifi force. Times change and so do the customers. Since the early 2000's they bought into the home theater scene. Last year we had talked about bringing back the Audio side full on. Associated gear was a Yamaha universal BD-A1040 spinner, Goldenear Triton Three loudspeakers and Monster interconnects and speaker cabling (house brand cabling since the 1990's). Surprisingly, this combination of gear and cabling proved to be an excellent match. The amp weighs 40 pounds, very solid in build and construction. Sleek styling and Silver in color was my review sample that came from my area Anthem sales rep/manager whom had around 150 -200 hours play time. This gentleman owns a pair of Thiel CS 3.7 loudspeakers in his system as it turns out. I am in the process of finding out the rest of his system and musical tastes. Also, there is another gentleman whom lives in my area that bought his STR last month and uses a turntable set-up (hopefully I can connect with him for a follow-up soon). Auditioning took place in a dedicated room that is very well damped, dead quiet. I would say it is 15x15x12 maybe larger and still under 20x20x12 in size. I sat 8-10 feet away from the system. The Yamaha player is impressive using its coaxial output into the STR DAC input. The sound and presentation was excellent. Powerful, energetic, robust, dynamic (micro/macro) a touch warm of neutral is my description. For those who have heard the Anthem 225 integrated, the STR, represents the next level of musical enjoyment. These (2) amps are not lean, dry, thin nor anemic, for the record. I was easily able to hear deeper into the music on my reference CD titles than I can recall from previous demos. The same is reported for SACD playback via the analog output from player into the analog input of amp (no HDMI on the Anthem), PRaT was in effect big time. Again, this system was very musical from top to bottom. I can only imagine the synergy of my speakers and the STR. MSRP is $4499, even at full retail, this amp is a steal. One is going to spend much more for separates or a different brand's integrated of equal quality and power ratings. Later this week I will make an offer on the review sample. Highest marks across the board. Happy Listening!
Wondering if anyone has ever re-covered their grills & if so, where did they buy the cloth, how much to buy & how much it cost?
I’ve been researching "speaker grill cloth" & have been quite surprised at how much some sites are asking per yard of the stuff...in basic black, no less.
The grills on my 3.5’s are in great shape structurally, but the cloth was trimmed & reglued by the previous owner, leaving me nothing "extra" now that the edges have begun to peel away.
unsound, thanks for the leads. The SW1 in California has unworkable shipping costs and the SS1 doesn't match my 2-driver unit. Best fit is SS-2. Thanks again, T
That got a lot of Thiel owners very excited, but of course it never came out to market. What exactly happened with that speaker? Were any actually produced beyond a prototype?
And...what lucky bugger ended up with the one shown in the picture? (If I'm allowed to ask) :-)
My "100 MBps" Comcast had a hard time downloading the pic of the CS3.7s!
Woo-hooo! Can't wait to learn more about "hot-rod kits". Crazy that he will honor warranties for legacy models. I hope he doesn't regret that decision.
Check out the interview on Strata.Gee.com today. Great interview w/Rob Gillum. The company will be called the Coherent Source Service Center. They will also work on restoring cabinets too. Excellent article.
Not planning any experiments . . . I hope to upgrade the crossovers exactly one time! Or piecemeal, given that I already have the Clarity SAs in the coax feed. ie, start with the woofer feed, maybe put newer Clarity (or Mundorf) in the coax feed as budget and nervosa dictate :)
From Tom's posts, the best bang-for-the-buck could be to "simply" put top-shelf bypass caps in. I might look at options from Cornell Dubilier in addition to Clarity and Mundorf.
I will continue to check this thread for more info from Tom Thiel and, hopefully, Rob Gillum. In the meantime, there is no doubt that the music in my living room is more clear, immediate, and involving than ever. And I want even more of that!
Thank You- Mr. Tom Thiel for your continued correspondence to this community. You have much to say about our beloved speakers and we want to read about it!
Circling back around to you -unsound it was a CJ MF 2300 and PV 10 pre-amp. I do not know much about CJ that old. Sounded pretty good as I wanted to attempt to dial-in my room. This week I have an opportunity to audition the newest Anthem STR integrated. I will post a report over the weekend for you guys. Stay tuned. Happy Listening!
The only reason I'd be interested in replacing caps in my 3.5's is due to the age of them. While they seem to be fine, I suppose it's just a matter of time.
This is easily one of the best, most informative and civil forums I've had the pleasure to come across on this site since joining, oh, about five years ago. There had been a rather lengthy stray from the "hi-fi" scene in my life, perhaps a 25 year long span, during which I listened - and rarely - through a series of vintage receivers from the 1970's; those Pioneer, Sansui, Marantz receivers still have a hold on me to this day.
I believe I stumbled upon this site whilst actually looking for yet another relic from my mis-spent youth, in the process becoming beguiled by a tube amplifier someone had put up for sale. It's been all downhill since...
In a good way, if that's possible.
As I've said before, I don't know a mosfet from a misfit, but I know what I like. I may not be able to contribute anything substantive to the current and quite technological discussion currently being followed, but I read, as I have read in the past, with a keen interest in learning what it is about Thiel that captured me in the first place.
A few years back with my first pair of Thiel 3.5's I opted, as a result of one of the midranges going in and out, to remove it to see what was causing it. In the process I slipped with the screwdriver and poked a small, but worrisome hole in the midrange's surround - not the driver itself. It was through this forum that I discovered Rob Gullom was still repairing drivers for the model, and so sent the pair off for repair. I gifted that pair to my nephew.
So much of our possessions are disposable. So much of what we purchase IS disposable, designed for the short term with nary a forethought as to how much we consume and ultimately discard. The purchase of Thiel legacy models is an investment, not merely a purchase in and of itself. Fixing/repairing any model is indeed an investment, not a patch.
There have been too many times here, in too short a span of time, that I've said "I'm done" upon finding a great system recently. (As if it's possible to reach that point.) I ain't done, and I never will be. Forums like this, with contributors who don't get snarky or preachy, are the reason why I keep reading, keep trading, keep interested. Thiel is special stuff, and the community of fellow fans continues to be a learning experience for me.
Beetle, I am glad to be here. My hi-fi life has been fairly well buried until recently. Nice to find you guys.
Regarding capacitor bypasses, we discovered in the 1970s what has now become fairly commonplace knowledge, that small value high-grade capacitor(s) in parallel with the workhorse will keep the upper frequency leading-edge waveforms, etc. intact at a higher performance level per cost than a single type cap. My brand knowledge is a couple decades old and lots of progress has been made, so I will be finding my solutions just like you guys. We don't have Jim's lab and expertise. Nonetheless, Thiel's development MO was to experiment with cap configurations via blind listening to rank sound quality among the combinations. Then the highest performance / cost solution was identified and subjected to rigorous analysis regarding waveform integrity, ringing and so forth. The winner was always a bypass pair or triplet. The rank of (affordable) cap types (at that time) from best downward was: Teflon, Styrene, Propylene (foil or metalized depending on current requirements), Polyester (Mylar) and electrolytic, with some variants such as Tantalum, oiled, etc. Mylar was a bargain because propylene was very expensive due to production losses, which is now cured. Notice that older Thiels contained multiples-in-series propylenes or mylars to make the value in order to reduce costs. (Eventually a wound film cap will fail in testing due to a thin spot in the film carrier, so cost rises geometrically with cap value.) Another thing that has changed is that Styrene caps (our favorite bypass) has been obsoleted in the marketplace. Teflon over propylene and/ or electrolytic has a high likelihood of success on those large value caps. Rule of thumb is to bypass at 1% to 10% total requirement, more or less. More for high current requirement. Example: 100uF EE + 10uF PP + 1uF Tef > 111uF value at much lower cost than eliminating EE.
This whole upgrade enterprise runs contrary to the rigor we applied at Thiel Audio. But I am fairly comfortable flying blind since I do not have access or time to test with instruments. I am also fairly confident of my approach due to serious personal experience. I also will employ a few twenty-somethings including two young women with extraordinary hearing to supply observations beyond my present hearing acuity (I am 69 and ears suffer with age.)
That's all for now. I'm expecting 4 XO kits for my PPs this week from Rob. I'll open my cap investigation and layout next week.
My hope is to supply subtle information that may not be obvious to all.
Crossover networks can be very easily scrambled via changes with
unintended consequences.
I suspect I speak on behalf of this community in saying how grateful we are to have you here! I am very much interested in tweaking the last drop of performance out of my CS2.4s. But I have not the expertise, time, or money to try a multitude of mods. Your advice (and, hopefully, that of Rob Gillum) is *greatly* appreciated! I'm hoping you might write more about:
If I were hotrodding an upper end Thiel, I would consider a Teflon bypass in the tweeter feed.
On another matter, I am looking to buy a Thiel SS2 ( or SW1) subwoofer for our non-profit village arts center. We mentor developing regional performers using better-than-expected sound equipment. I placed an Audiogon want-ad. If you know of anything out there, please send them my way. Thanks, Tom
Cardas makes great cables. My hope is to supply subtle information that may not be obvious to all. Crossover networks can be very easily scrambled via changes with unintended consequences.
Speaker cables are designed for unknown load characteristics and environments. These hookup wires operate in very specific conditions, and this particular wire configuration has been optimized via meticulous design.
Yes, the hookup wire came from Straightwire, which is a price / purchasing convenience. The relevant particulars include the wire, the jacket and the twist, which trumps the source.
I believe that at least for some of the older models; Thiel used hookup wire sourced from Straightwire. The Straightwire talent of that time have since moved on to Wireworld.
Thanks for the added info, Tom. I will wait to see what Rob Gillum offers. I don't have time to pursue this now, anyhow. Just toying with the idea. If Mr. Gillum doesn't offer a DIY kit, I will probably start with the woofer feed given that my 2.4SEs already have Clarity Caps on the coax.
I have seen people "upgrade" Thiel hookup wire. I don't buy it. Thiel
(lexington) hookup wire is 99.9999%, long crystal, teflon jacket, 3
twists per inch. I've never heard or measured better from any boutique /
branded wire.
I trust your experience but I think I would at least try Cardas if I had the time and money.
Thiel has worked with Madisound since the 1970s, so they know that we want unflavored, technically accurate caps and resistors. I went to them for advice for my PP rebuild and they recommended Mundorf as the "winner" in their customer experience. Mundorf has a deep range of solutions and I have not yet chosen mine along their continuum. Thiel routinely bypassed good Solen PolyPropylenes with a smaller value of Styrenes. Styrenes are very expensive due to manufacturing losses; they have been replaced by higher-performance PPs. We coveted, but never used in my time, Teflon bypasses which are extremely clean, neutral and stable over a wide current range. If I were hotrodding an upper end Thiel, I would consider a Teflon bypass in the tweeter feed.
My "lost" post included a note about hookup wire. I have seen people "upgrade" Thiel hookup wire. I don't buy it. Thiel (lexington) hookup wire is 99.9999%, long crystal, teflon jacket, 3 twists per inch. I've never heard or measured better from any boutique / branded wire. The only thing I am considering, because I must increase my lengths for my outboard crossovers, is Paul Spelz's AntiCable 3.1 for hookup wire. It is high-grade copper with only enamel insulation, similar to our six nines coil wire. Dielectric absorption is the problem. Teflon is great. Less coating is even better.
There is this wonderful website with a long list of capacitors and their subjective "flavors". Excellent source to choose a "seasoning" to experiment. http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html
It seems the site ate my detailed response. In summary, just be careful because you don't know what you don't know. Thiel (Lexington) parts selection was rigorous and knowledge-based. Don't assume you can get a whole-system improvement by throwing more money at it. Compare notes among ourselves. I will share what I find out in my upgrade efforts.
Jim chose ClarityCaps SAs at that time, all things considered. CC replaced those with ESAs and now CSA's. I'll look closely at them. Mundorf recommendation came from Madisound based on wide comparative evaluation and user feedback. Dave Garretson is known among you as a trusted source of good information. Use him. Be very careful of unknown recommenders. Rob Gillum will make knowledge-based decisions.
I will share the results of my PowerPoint 1.2 upgrade as it develops. Can photos be posted on this forum?
Oblgny, that would be me. Thanks for the generous offer, but I’m not sure when I’ll be free to pick them up. Please don’t hold them for me. Thanks again! Are you looking for another pair of 3.5’s?
By my A’gon membership count I’ve had 5 amp and preamp combos since joining the site, and that doesn’t account for purchases off the site. I think it makes 9 or 10 total. Could be more.
I’ve had three - count ‘em three - pairs of CS 3.5’s, one pair of CS 3.6’s, and I forget my first three pairs of pre 3.5 Thiels. I am truly an audiot.
I still have the guts of my last pair of 3.5’s, drivers, crossovers, nameplates, which I offered to someone here free if they can be picked up, but I forget to whom I made that offer. Consecutive serial numbers, but the midranges on either do not work. Hello Rob Gullom? VERY much worth having them repaired.
As I’ve said before, one does not simply purchase Thiel, one invests in Thiel. Discovering Thiel on the used market has allowed me to experience what high fidelity is all about at a fraction of the original cost.
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