Thiel Owners

Sorry, it's hifishark.com. I'm guessing you'll be around $6k US.

Go to hifisharks.com, type in the model, and filter by North America.  It will show you what's currently for sale and what's sold over the last few years (covers virtually all the sites except craigslist).  You can choose the currency too. Great site for pricing/hunting..

Folks,

I plan to put my Thiel 3.7s up for sale soon, and as I'm just starting to research pricing I wondered if I could get some feedback.  Mine are close to mint (had them refinished) in the Morado finish. 

Any suggestions on a list price?

I plan to offer them on Canuck Audio Mart first, hoping for a local buyer.

Happy Friday - All.

A little Bill Evans - You Must Believe In Spring - this morning.
Happy Listening!

Happy Friday- ALL.

Lafuma - I have two of those, mesh versions, that I use in the yard during summer. Fantastic for taking a nap in the shade!

those are nice for the outdoors.   the one i use is much more comfortable and is an indoor unit. when company comes over,   i just fold it up and move it out of the way. 

At that point the sound changes a bit from the reflections from the pillow around my ears, similar to when I introduce some more room reflection by moving my curtains off the side walls near the speakers.

I am certain that my ears relative to the high couch back is a big part of the differences in sound I heard. In my case, I think that and listening height are more important than differences between, say, 8 and 9' distance.

Lafuma - I have two of those, mesh versions, that I use in the yard during summer. Fantastic for taking a nap in the shade!

Last night I was using a wooden low-rider style. I kept adding padding until my ears were in the range 32-36. I thought that ~35-36" sounded best-ish. I intend to dial that in more then return to speaker placement.

Most speakers tend to sound a bit more rich and full, emphasizing the midrange over high frequencies, when you lower your listening position. That is true of the 3.7s though for some reason less so of the 2.7s which seem to maintain a very even tonality over a wider vertical area. The 2.7s might have the most consistent tone over a wide axis of any speaker I’ve owned excepting the MBL omis.

I sit on a very large sofa that I had custom designed for deep seats and somewhat high backs to facilitate comfot and support for watching movies and long listening sessions. I specifically made sure the back supports my shoulders but ends before my neck/head so as not to interfere with direct sound from the speakers.

However I can recline further, feet up
on the ottoman, resting my head into the pillows. At that point the sound changes a bit from the reflections from the pillow around my ears, similar to when I introduce some more room reflection by moving my curtains off the side walls near the speakers. The sound brightens a bit, gets a bit more lively and present, a bit more expansive though less image focus. It can be enjoyable too.

But tonality becomes a bit more whitened and homogenized so mostly I listen with me back supported, ears clear of the back cushions.

i point my speakers almost straight with maybe 2 degrees toe in.  they are about 9' apart as measured from the center of the coaxes.  ears are about 7'8" to the coax and are below the coax about 6".  please read what Pierre has to say about listening position.   it is general for sure but some good info here.  just avoid heavily padded chairs or couches right behind your ears (which is why i use the Lafuma cloth covered recliner).  http://www.mapleshadestore.com/freeupgrades.php

my ears are about 7'10" from the coaxes

My ears were just a hair closer than 8' when I was on the lower chair. Previously I tried the couch closer, also with my ears about 8' away from the coaxes, but this was the first time I really experimented with a *lower* position. Next, I will try removing the couch cushion and try various pillows to lower my ears. This would have my ears about 9' away. That might not be the answer tho' as I *did* try a couple of songs with risers under the front spikes to tilt them up (this is how Vandersteen does it for differing listening distances albeit with changing screw settings rather than adding risers).

Interesting to me as I've mostly experimented with speaker position rather than listening position. I know Jim Smith recommends starting with listening position before starting on speaker positioning.

I agree with Prof.  i too like more near field listening with my 2.7's.   i started doing this after reading some info on the Mapleshade site about listening position.  Pierre thinks most people sit too high and too far away.
i use a really nice and comfy Lafuma zero gravity chair to recline back so my ears are definitely below the coax.  i think sitting on a heavily padded couch might not be a good idea as i used to do that . my ears are about 7'10" from the coaxes and i get a very enveloping (depending on the recording) sound stage.  

Beetlemaina,

Sounds like you are edging toward how I listen. I’ve always preferred closer listening, away from room boundaries, which inevitably makes for smother more immersive sound, and better apprehension of subtle detail. Those more subtle details go missing from further away, and get lost in room bounce “hash.” I hear more of the individual tonality of instruments captured in the recording as well as more details of the acoustics/reverb of the recording.

The only thing that starts to fall away a bit more with closer listening is the sense of liveliness so I always look to maintain a balance.

Fortunately I have a really good room that is well damped (not too damped) and low in such factors so I can still use a further listening distance and still hear great detail in the recording.  But for soundstaing immersion I still like a fairly close seat.

Had the house to myself tonight and not only played the SEs loudly but played with listening position. Soundstage's measurements were at a manufacturer's recommended 30":
https://www.soundstage.com/measurements/thiel_cs24/

With the spikes and outriggers this lifts the speaker another 2". So, I tried a lower chair and was able to get my ears 32-36" off the floor using different combinations of pillows (my ears are probably more like 38-40" off the floor in my usual seat). But I also sat closer, so I was changing vertical *and* horizontal off-axis angles. Additionally, it put my ears further from the back wall and couch I usually sit on. So, I was changing at least 3 variables at once.

Anyhow, I was able to get the best sound yet. Image density remains less good than the best I've heard but the sound seemed to open up a bit with a notably more immersive soundstage. I'm slowly getting the position dialed in - can't wait to hear what the XO upgrade does!

How do your cs2.4se sound?  Got an amp yet?

Happy Friday- All.

Ya,
I told Rob about the driver issue and he also was scratching his head. One of the drivers actually separated where it is cemented to the magnet. The other one started making a distinctive cracking noise on any high-frequency recording.
Well if it was the amp or anything else upstream I am starting out with different gear so it shouldn’t happen again. I am anxious to get the V-5xe in black. I remember when I bought mine but at the time could not afford a new one so Agon to the rescue. This one is a one-owner unit and I had Ayre look up the Serial number. The unit was made in early 2008 and has never been to Ayre for any type of repairs or work.
I sure am tempted as there is a K-5x pre-amp on Ebay right now for only $1.600. If I send it to Ayre for $1,200 they would upgrade it to the full K-5xeMP current model.
I am looking forward to getting the caps from Rob along with some high quality silver solder. He told me with the new caps that I will definitely notice the change in sound. The only problem I am having now is trying to find good IC’s but at a price that does not get close to the cost of the actual components.

@f1wheels That should be a really nice sounding system, unless the Ayre kills another coax :o

Please let us know how changing the caps goes for you. I will be making a more comprehensive change to my XOs, maybe next month. I imagine Rob Gillum has supplied good instructions for you to follow but we can all learn from your experience.

I spoke with Rob at coherent source and he is sending me the upgrade components for my original 2.4's to make them 2.4SE's. Also I am going to send in my grill covers to have him put on some fresh ones. After 12 years of sitting in the house they do show a little age. I purchased the speakers brand new and have always loved them. He told me that they will sound even better with the changes I will make. I also just picked up my old amp that I loved as well, the Ayre V-5XE. This one is a rare one as it is black and at the time Ayre charged an extra $250 for the black chassis. Right now I just have a Marantz AV-7701 Pre-Pro that I use with my HT set-up, but it does have balanced pre-outs. I will eventually buy the Ayre K-5x, there is one on Ebay right now for $1,600 and I am very tempted. I would send it into Ayre and for $1,200 they would upgrade it to the K-5xeMP. As for my source I just bought an Oppo UDP-205 player. 

I’ve yet to hear a horn I didn’t hate.

@tomthiel -

Wow...what an incredible story! This is what a lot of us audiophiles/geeks love to hear...the why & how that goes behind the scenes. Now I know why there is some shared “architecture” between the CS6 & the 3.7. However, the idea of a modern CS4 with a powered sub AND a folded horn...Who wouldn’t want to hear that?!?!?Thanks for sharing, Tom!

As a side note, my family origins lie in the Philippines. Back in the 80’s & early 90’s, Thiel speakers were held in such high regard there & throughout SE Asia that they became status symbols to many in the hobby. In fact, throughout Asia, while it was fine to have Japanese electronics, you weren’t truly high-end unless you had American speakers. For many, that meant JBL, Klipsch & Thiel.

Thanks & please keep the stories coming, Tom...truly fascinating reading!

Arvin

Arvin - about the missing CS4. By the late 80s, we had gotten well established in Japan, which is (or at least was) extremely difficult as well as being a world market-maker. They wanted a state of the art speaker from Thiel, and orientals don't have "NO" in their vocabulary. Seriously. Those days were filled with newly-minted companies like Hales, Wilson, etc. offering $20K+ speakers. The late 80s were the good old days. Jim, however, was an incremental knowledge-based designer and had an aversion to jumping leagues, even though it would have injected significant and much needed cash. So, he designed his next greatest speaker beyond the 3.5. Of course the model naturally begged for the CS4 title. Well, it turns out that the entire orient considers 4 to be the number of death. Of course, our sophisticated distributor and dealers were above such superstitions, but cautioned that we must be concerned about all those other guys who may not want the sign of death in their homes.

The work-around was that the 3-series was a 3-way. The new speaker was a 5-way and therefore could leap-frog the pesky 4 problem and become the CS5, which it did. Now, the next product under development was the Thiel developed and manufactured coax product. I thought it should be a 4-way: coax to 6.5" to 10 or 12" plus passive, etc. However the 4 slot had been leapfrogged and the orient hadn't abandoned their 4 problem, so the 3-way coax x 12" became the CS6. Hmmm . . . lesser than the CS5. You guys will notice that CS6 driver complement is similar to where the 3.7 landed. Luckily for me, I had left the company during the development of what became the CS6, so I didn't have to lose sleep over these pesky matters.

In my opinion, had Thiel's new 20112 owners chosen to stay on the Real Thiel Way, a CS4 could have been a stellar performer and bridge the way to a CS5.2 as described earlier with SS bass. The CS6's primary limit is the 12" handing off to the 4" coax. Put a 6.5" in between and some serious seamlessness wow could happen. Of course you guys know this configuration as the CS7 series . . . It all got kinda confused by that skipped 4. In my imaginary life, I would have persuaded the new Thiel owners to develop the CS4 as a 4-way plus perhaps an exotic bass system between the passive radiator of the 2.7 and 3.7 and the powered inboard subwoofers of the CS5.2 (remember that from a previous post?). That imaginary CS4 bass got some passing fantasy time, but never made it to development. Imagine a true folded horn nestled between the floor joists, fed by a fitted opening on the cabinet bottom through the floor, and exiting via a floor grille in front of the cabinet . . . Yes, it requires build-in. Real life gets in the way.

Next time we'll walk down memory lane where no one has ever snooped and find the mighty Thiel folded horn heard a mile away.

I blew a mid on my 3.7s listening to Beethoven.  It's just so crankable.  I was underpowered at the time.  I added a second amp and run bridged mono now with around 7-800w/channel into 4 ohms and haven't had a problem since.  That was about 6 years ago.

Well, I don't think I listen THAT loud -- we were listening to the 2nd Beethoven piano concerto this weekend, it's got very quiet passages with just a few instruments, and then full orchestra passages. Our room's 20 x 21, speakers are 5 feet away from the wall. My Alpha DAC digital volume was 38, fed directly into the amp. So, not earsplitting! But the small ensemble music is very nice, great imaging, timbres, etc., and as I wrote, the climaxes seem a little "scrunched."  I've had the 3.7s for three months. before that the 2.2s. Nice speakers, also.

We used a variety of amps in the lab and listening room. Threshold, Mark Levinson, Krell and Classé were always there. Unsound may be right about the TH12e, I don't remember. The Classe´amps were a pair of DR9s strapped to mono, which I still have, have hot-rodded and use every day. Their stereo rating is 8/4/2=100/200/400 and mono is 400/800/1100. An amazing thing to me is driving a pair of PowerPoint 1.2s, sealed box home theatre monitors rated at 89 db/w-m with 75 Hz cutoff into an easy room at "normal" playback levels . . . have you guessed? Their performance jumped a big notch going from stereo to mono with these amps. MUSIC IS TRANSIENT and impact requires power. These PPs are my mix and room monitors with stereo SmartSubs. (I'm still looking for a beat-up SS-2 or SW1). When people suggest your Thiels are sounding conjested on complex / demanding music, look to your amplifier.

An endemic design problem is second-guessing. If an amp designer assumes that low-impedance loads will be narrow-band / reactive, lasting instantaneous / short durations, then he can sign off on the particulars of his power supply. However, Thiel (and some other) speakers assume that a properly designed amp can deliver its rated output into resistive (easy) loads for longer term cycles (hard). The amp with enough power supply will love that load. The wimpy supply will starve the rails, clip the peaks, generally sound hashy and burn out drivers. I personally examined hundreds of burned-out Thiel drivers over my years (1975-1995) and every single one failed due to heat which means they were fed dirty signal. Conversely, over all the years of our listening and testing at well over 100dB (large) room levels, we NEVER burned out or otherwise failed a single driver. The specialty retailer and review magazines are supposed to do the educating, but that education is quite thin, in my opinion.

Jon, fiberglas is the cost effective standard. I tested and love genuine wool. Its naturally spiraled fiber works magic in converting pressure-motion to heat. We used 2 grades of SAE military pure wool felt on the back cabinet wall of the midrange enclosures to absorb the back-wave. Wool's performance can't be equalled by modern materials, which I call wishful engineering products. Wool fiber has a couple of problems in the cabinet. It acts very differently than fiberglas, so don't just replace the FG with Wool. And wool is inconsistent, so every cabinet would have to be trial-and-error optimized, which doesn't work well in a production environment. It is also hydroscopic (absorbs water in humid environments) and it's expensive. I will consider it if/ when we get to ultra-upgrade prospects, but wool must be re-engineered, not merely substituted.

Rob,

I’m glad you enjoyed my ramblings on the Thiels. At one point I rambled in an online hi fi mag reviewing speakers (many years ago) so I’ve had a lot in my listening room. I drifted away somewhat from the hobby for a while (turning to designing my home theater room among other things). Still, both back then and now I have enough contact within the community to hear amazing gear.

I keep experimenting, modifying the positions of the 2.7s and find I can get them sounding almost however I want - smooth and lush, brighter more dynamic or a mix in between.

Right now I’ve dialed them to where they sound just super clear with incredible transient response, yet with a warm inviting timbre. Playing something like P. Glass’s Powaqquatsi with it’s ever changing layers of percussion sounds so exciting and life-like, the exact character of every different drum, block or triangle so vivid.

Like I said, I’ll miss the 3.7s scale, but the 2.7s portray more rhythmic drive and conjure sonic images with more solidity than anything else I’ve yet heard. So they are to my ears very much a “performance-first” speaker where the lively sense of musicians performing is the overall effect vs other speakers where soundstaging/spaciousness may leave the overriding impression.

ronkent,

Thanks for the REL recommendation. I used to be more familiar with that line years ago and they were my first thought.
However I’m in a situation where some room features rule out anything but very small subwoofers and the size/performance ratio of the JL Subwoofers I chose are tough to beat.

As I think I may have detailed earlier in the thread, the JL subs, though generally made to use the rca line ins also offer a high level speaker input - ala REL - and as that was easiest I started taking the feed off my 2.7
speaker posts.

Though I got some of the subwoofer benefits - larger, deeper sound - I also lost dynamics and the tone of the system went too dark/soft/rolled off.

i don’t know why (and I’m mostly a newbie with subwoofers as I’ve usually hated subs).

I tried using the rca inputs as well (sent from my preamp) and while it was a bit more dynamic the tone of the system changed too dark. In both cases this was running the 2.7s full range with a low crossover point.

JL Audio’s position, and that of most of the subwoofer aficionados I’ve read, is to go with the crossover and split the sub/mains, usually around 80hz. So that’s my next move. (I bought JL Audios high end analogue crossover).

A good amp for current hungry Thiels doubles power from 8 to 4 ohms and again doubles or nearly so into 2 ohms.

Neither Ayre or Pass give a 2 Ohm rating for the amps F1 is considering. I’m not convinced, however, that matters for a CS2.4. Unless you like to listen at *really* high SPLs and/or have a large room, either amp sound be more than enough to deliver musical bliss. Interesting observation, though, that something in the, um, Ayre might have caused the blown coax. I wonder what that might be.

The CS5, though, looks to be a supremely current hungry speaker. Stereophile’s measurement shows the impedance dropping <2 Ohm in the bass! Might not want to drive those with a SET :)

The observation of congestion of orchestral climaxes at high SPLs suggests, to me, the onset of clipping. Probably need a more powerful amp if that’s how you like to listen.

Tomthiel, Interesting that you used Krell's  (though I can understand why)  for developing the CS5's, it's been long rumored it was the 250 Class A Watt mono Threshold 12e's.

Larry, It's been  a long time, and I might be mistaken, but I thought the late "Bud" Fried also thought 1st order cross-overs were "all wrong". I seem to recall that some of his designs were supposed to be based on transmission line cabinets, yet none appeared to be suitably ginormous enough to be actual transmission lines. Also, wasn't there some sort of brouhaha with Stereophile over the measured bass output of his speakers vs. Thiel's, wherein Stereophile reexamined their procedure; to find that they were in fact correct.

@tomthiel - Hi, Tom! In another Thiel related thread, you offered to share your take on why there wasn’t a CS4-series speaker. Wondering if you wouldn’t mind sharing that story here?

Thanks again for enriching these discussions!

Arvin

My 3.7s have pink fiberglass insulation in the mid/tweeter compartment.  Maybe switching to wool could be a part of an upgrade?

That series of Classe amps definitely doesn't double into 2 ohms.  I have a pair of the 200s and they were 200/400/500 watts into 8/4/2 ohms.  It's hard for me to imagine 600 watts/side isn't enough.  Much more than that and your amp will be in danger of blowing a fuse.  If you're listening to a full orchestra loud on the 3.7s you may be running up against the limitations of the speakers.  They do fine at a pretty high volume but first order crossovers definitely have volume limitations.

tmsrdg, power isn't the most illuminating word, current into low impedance is a subset of power and the operative limitation. You can find out the 2-ohm spec on your amp, which should describe its capability. But, as Larry adds another consideration, current delivery spec can be construed over various time windows, so the spec can lie with demanding program material. Larry is right that Jim was a bit gobsmacked by the subjective experience of CS5 (and all our big products) users running out of bass power. The CS5 came after the CS3.5 with equalized bass, which also drew bass current, but at higher impedance than the CS5. We used a 250W Krell powerhouse which performs as rated, 1000WPC into 2 ohms. Jim assumed the role of the speakers was to perform to its stated specs, and the amp must do likewise and so forth. When manufacturers fudge such claims, the burden-in-fact falls to the speaker for under-performing. All these years later, these matters are still foggy in the mind of the audiophile world. Awhile ago I mentioned that I wish Thiel products had higher impedance minimums - 4ohms minimum as beetlemania (?) corrected my 6 ohm nominal wish. Same animal. We would all be better served via honest claims for our products. 

IMF were best speakers I ever heard for Symphonic Music !

Forgot this. The CS5 dropped to about 2.2ohms if I recall. The design philosophy for bass in the 3.7's was very similar.
Larry

tmsrdg,
This is an old memory so forgive any misstatements. 
I remember talking to Jim and Tom about their design work on the CS5 Loudspeakers. One issue, and a large one, how to pull the amount of current from the amplifier to adequately make the bass come alive. 
The speaker had a stated bottom of about 22Hz as I recall. Jim said that they decided that if the impedance dropped enough, that that would pull the amount of current needed to adequately fund the bass. (just as the 3.7 drops in impedance in the lower bass) After the speakers were finished, he and I had dinner and Jim expressed his disappointment in the published specs of the big boy amps versus the reality of their capabilities in producing power into diminishing resistance. It seems that they were not nearly as powerful as claimed.
Back then, Gryphon, now a powerhouse amplifier, was woefully inadequate in playing program material on my CS5's at even moderate levels, with music having deep bass.
As Jim said, 'Every solve creates another challenge', or words to that effect.
So, tmsrdg, I'd check a review or two on your amp, I'm thinking you're right about the congestion issue. Possibly they don't rate their amp into 2 ohms is because it doesn't do well. Many don't.
Best,
Larry

TomThiel wrote:
>A good amp for current hungry Thiels doubles power from 8 to 4 ohms >and again doubles or nearly so into 2 ohms.
I've been wondering about this. I run a Classe ca-300 amp with my 3.7s. The soundstage  does get a bit congested at large orchestral climaxes, for instance. The Classe is rated 300wpc into 8 ohms and 600 into 4ohms, but there is no specification regarding doubling into 2 ohms in the literature. The 3.7 has a minimum impedance of 2.8 ohms with sensitivity 90dB/2.83V/m. Do I need a more powerful amp?

Tom, 
Years ago, I owned the IMF Loudspeakers by Irving M. 'Bud' Fried.
When I opened my store in Louisville, in '83, he called me to discuss carrying his products. (By then it was 'Fried Loudspeakers'. One point he was adamant about ADAMENT!, was his stand on real wool stuffing in the cabinets of all his models. 'None of that cheap synthetic sh*t'! So, when I designed the LSA's one thing I did was A/B the speakers with the standard cheap, stuff, lol. It was truly an aha moment. NOT a placebo effect. I repeated this for several audiophiles, not explaining. They unanimously and overwhelmingly picked the tightly packed wool models. I can't remember what was used in all the THIEL speakers. (I'm old). I recommend this for any box speaker. 
Have you experimented with this?
Larry

Welcome F1. I am speaking from personal experience and generalizations and do not formally represent Thiel Audio. The Ayre and Pass Labs are both extraordinary amplifiers from excellent designers. Each has its sonic signature, but either is considered top drawer.
It is worth noting that you blew 2 drivers with the Ayre. I suspect something is wrong with it or something else in your chain. Those coaxes are very rugged and the only failures I know are from distortion. If it were mine I would seek troubleshooting and repair. Also the power advantage of the Pass is significant. More power always runs cleaner. Definitely consider it. Look at the watts / ohms ratings. A good amp for current hungry Thiels doubles power from 8 to 4 ohms and again doubles or nearly so into 2 ohms. That pattern bespeaks a power supply capable of delivering current, which you need if you listen loudly to lots of bass or persistent dynamics and/or in a large room. Good luck.

The 2.4 and 2.4SE drivers are the same. The crossover has upgraded components plus the cabinet finish and the outrigged plinth make up the SE. Some of us on this thread are developing a Super SE with considerably higher performance parts which will become available through Coherent Source Service when the time comes. 

Enjoy, Tom

Welcome! f1wheels

there are a few Ayre and Pass Labs users here. Best advice, go to the 1st post and read forward to the present. There is a plethora of information in this thread. Excellent advice and tips abound. Have fun David.

Happy Listening!

Hello,
After asking questions about amp choices I was encouraged to join in on the Thiel Owners Forum. I currently own the original Theil 2.4's I purchased them brand new, I believe just about 12 years ago , I think? I know that the 10 year warantee is expired but in all the time I owned them Thiel was always very good to me. For some reason, and we could never figure it out, I lost the coherent driver on the same right side speaker, twice! Thiel replaced the driver on both occasions with no hassle. What I am wondering is since the 2.4's and the 2.4 SB's use the same dimension of drivers is there anyway I can upgrade my standard 2.4's to the 2.4 SB's?
Also I am currently trying to decide between the Ayre V-5xe, that was the amp I used to drive them with before, or should I go with the Pass Labs X250? The V-5 is $2,750 and the Pass Labs is $2,600. Both amps are in great condition the Ayre is in Black (which was a $250 up-charge) and it is the original owner. But the Pass Labs beats out the Ayre by 100 W/Ch @500 W/Ch @ 4 Ohms. Anyone have some good advice for me?
Thank You,
David

Good to see you- marqmike

When I was auditioning Thiel speakers, the only cabling brand that I heard was, Audioquest. I do not believe that I have ever read about a brand that did not jive well w/ Thiel? I will add that due to these speakers' high resolution capability, cabling with Silver, could present an issue.

Happy Listening!

Since I have had my 2.4's I have been playing with cables. I have a dozen different ones I have gathered over the years. Nothing high priced. But I thought I would mention that my system seemed to click in to another level when I put in the van den hul 'the first' ic's.  They seem to open up the sound stage for me and keep things natural sounding which is my highest priority. Have any of you moved on from these to anything else that contributes to a 'more' natural sound? Thanks

Excellent suggestion - ronkent
a REL subwoofer makes a nice addition to any system. Good to learn that it can compliment the CS 2.7 loudspeaker.

Happy Listening!

Good to see you -vair68Robert
Happy Listening!

I believe that some ( especially me ) 2.7 owners hope the Rob Gillum comes up with a crossover board upgrade

Make your opinions known here. Tom Thiel intends to help Rob Gillum engineer XO upgrades for multiple Thiel models . . . and he is monitoring this thread. He is working on his Power Points now, CS2.4 is probably next (actually, CS2.4 owners can get the SE version caps from Rob Gillum right now). CS3.5 is on his radar. I think the 2.3 would be easy given the similarity with the 2.4, 2.7 might not be too much more work. I suspect written requests in this thread will influence the order of model he works on.

This is an exciting development. I think these upgrades will bring Thiel SQ to a new level.