I'm currently using thiel cs2.4. Any master can advise on how to upgrade to cs2.4se by changing its capacity? May i know the value and specs of the capacitors? What is the sound difference between cs2.4 vs dc2.4se? Tq
@those planning an upgrade of the 2.4. I've been in extensive talks with Clarity Caps and after harassing them (😬😬) I've got them willing to do a smaller batch of ten pieces each of the 14 uF and the 28 uF caps. The 14 will come in 630 VDC and the 28 will come in 250 vdc.
The prices of the caps per piece, ex. VAT and shipping will come to:
PUR 14UH630V X 10 @ €165.00
PUR 28UH250V X 10 @ €142.50
This would mean 330 + 285 = 615 € (677 $ / 516£) for the set.
I'm in, I've got one potential buyer who I'll be PM-ing in a minute.
I need three more people willing to jump on the wagon..
I built the crossover board mainly for experiment to help my friend to upgrade his cs2.4. My 2.4 is the front L/R of all Thiel HT setup ( mcs1 center, powerplane side surround and two mcs1 back surround) so I didn't go too crazy and my parts selection is mainly depends on cost.
My idea is to build a xover board about the same size as the original factory board, so it can fit inside the speaker cabinet on the same position. I also add some nylon standoff on the board so it can seat up side down in a pvc project box fill with resin for vibration control. But I found that put the crossover outboard is the best way to eliminate cabinet internal pressure/vibration and fill with resin seems unnecessary.
About the capacitor choice, beside the cs2.4se, Jim Thiel design most of his crossover using bypass, including the cs3.7 and cs6. Therefore I also go with bypass.
However, my friend was using his cs2.4 for two channel music playback, he changed his mind to upgrade the crossover due to very high parts cost (he consider using Audyn's copper cap) and bought a pair of cs3.7 instead.
My CS2.4 Mid/High xover use Claritycap CSA/ESA and Audiocap PPT Theta for bypass. The two 100uf non-polarized electrolytic replaced with Solen 200uF polypropylene capacitor. Resistors are Mills non-inductive wire wound, Coils are Jantzen.
I hope nobody minds me posting all these messages without waiting for a response...
I'm most probably going to do the mid and high section first, maybe also the bass..
If I combine capacitors, which can't really be avoided, would it matter much (and if yes, in what way) if I combine a 10 and a 3,9 uF to make (almost) 14 uF our of I combine a 13 and a1 uF?
I'm looking at the Jantzen amber or alumen.. the amber is pretty expensive.. maybe buy two of these in 1 uF and a 3.9uF 600V Miflex KPAL-01 Aluminium Foil Paper / Polypropylene in Oil Capacitor or audyn true copper also both a very good rating, not so expensive..
Our would you say it would be better to keep these small capacitors from the same brand? As I most probably will have the larger ones either Jantzen or Mundorf..
It's like standing in front of the milk cartons.. thousands of choices, which don't make it any easier 😉
I'm looking at coils at the moment and was wondering..
If I want a coil with 0,10 mH, I have the coice (Mundorf) between CFC 14, 16, 18 etc.
These all habe same value mH, but different Ohm-values.. In the end I need to come to 30-31 Ohms on the mid/tweeter of the 2.4.. how much would the wrong coil distort.. Also, I don´t really know if the CFC stands for the same as AWG/ gauge... lower AWG means thicker copper strand, higher CFC means bigger coil.. (maybe ill get in touch with mundorf in germany... )
I have a, not yet fully operational, surround system with Atmos with only Thiel speakers.
Four SCS 2.3 shielded units; two with Mundorf caps and coils, two with clarity Mr various and Mundorf copper foil coils. These work great.
I have five onder SCS units; one for the center, which will also be made with clarity caps and foil coils, the other four (Atmos) will be made with Mundorf coils and caps.
I have one Thiel TSW 12.1 which needs a cabinet of 100 liters. I have a unit to drive it.. but this needs testing.
And then I have two SCS 2.4 which need to be upgraded to SE.
One of them is less open and I'm hoping this is due to a faulty electronics or writing and not a problem with the mid/high unit. This problem had been there since I've had them. Two years ago I blew this unit up during room correction with live Dirac.
Rob Gillum fixed this for me and I'm now in conversation about the SCS and the cs2.4..
Any suggestions from you is welcome.. Any suggestion on the best resistances, besides coils and caps?
I have the complete opposite experience with the 7.2. I never heard them described as lean. Mine produce check thumping bass. There are certain things I only play with them as evert other fails in bottom end compared to the 7.2.
I have a fairly large room 37'x60' with 10' ceilings which allows the 7.2 to clear its throat and open up and sing.
Your ears do not deceive. The CS 2.4 is a real Honey of a loudspeaker. Sounds great with as little as 50w + 50w solid-state amp too! Delightful indeed.
I believe my 7.2s were finished in White Oak. They were the original pair reviewed by TAS back in the day. I purchased the entire system from Mike Kuller (one of their reviewers). The set up was as synergistic as it could be but I just couldn't get them to sound balanced. Tried some heavy duty Krell monoblocks and a couple top shelf pre-amps but they still sounded lean. I ended up keeping some parts of his system (Manley NeoClassic maps, cables/interconnects and lots of room treatments). But the 7.2s were sold. Been listening exclusively to my Sound Labs since then. But these little 2.4s are delightful. And much easier to move around :)
I have the 7.2 and 2.4 as well. The big Thiel's need room to breath compared to the 2.4. Also they need a monster amp. The big Krell and Pass Labs mate very well.
Feel free to join us over on the Thiel Owners thread. I look forward in reading more about your Musical tastes. Nice system around the CS 2.4 loudspeakers.
I just picked up a pair of CS2.4 as a secondary set of main speakers. Primary speakers are big Sound Lab M1 electrostats. I had a set of CS7.2s for a few months that I tried in my system. For the life of me, I couldn’t get them to sound right despite ample front end electronics and room treatment. They just sounded lean in the mid bass and as much as I wanted to love them, the Sound Labs sounded *much* better in every respect.
But these 2.4s, for some reason, sound wonderful. In some ways, I prefer them to the 7.2s. They don’t really compare to the 7’ tall Sound Labs in terms of sheer sound quality but there is something special about relatively small speakers throwing a huge sound stage and virtually disappearing in a listening room. I’m really impressed by them and ordered outriggers from Rob a Coherent Source Servicing. Also ordered the cap upgrade kit but they may take longer to arrive due to supply chain issues overseas. Regardless, it’s nice to listen to Thiels again considering they were my first taste of high end audio back in the 90s while I was in college. Lots of fond memories with the company having a special place in my heart. Over the last 25yrs, I’ve owned 1.2, 2 2, 3.6. 7.2 and now 2.4s.
Rest of the system consists of Manley Neo Classic 225 amps, ARC SP16, Luxman DA-06 DAC, Aurender server, MIT oracle cabling and a u-haul load of ASC room treatment/traps.
Hi guys. My work is in progress. I am proceeding by steps. These days I should receive all the necessary MILLS resistors and some capacitors. About the 100uF electrolytic to replace, what do you think if I replace them with a PP version?
Feel free to join Us over on the Thiel Owners thread. The CS 2.4 is a very fine loudspeaker in stock form. The SE upgrade provides a measure sweeter as above.
I have recently completed my capacitor upgrade, having bought the upgrade from Rob Gillum (rob@coherentsourceservice.com). It took 3 weeks for them to get to me in the UK. Most frightening 3 hours of my life doing the upgrade. I ended up removing the crossovers and doing all the work on the bench.
50 hours of listening in and I am completely and utterly delighted...sounds like a new system.
Definitely more detailed, speakers completely disappear in the soundstage and I am hearing better clarity through the whole frequency range. My wife says 'it sounds clearer' which is significant praise!
If you are still listening to your 2.4's, I really would spend the cash and upgrade them to the SE capacitors, I honestly think it's the best money I have ever spend on my system...
In the video, i was playing streaming music from my synology nas, connecting to my newly bought wadia di122 dac via chromcast wirelessly. Further, I was using pathos in control pre-amp and goldmund power amp 18.4 driving the newly recapped thiel 2.4. With the new racks, it also elevated its performance to a new level.
My meridian g08 cd player has been left idle for months as i find that playing streaming music controlling from hand phone is more convinient.
Hi guys, Finally, i had my amp repaired. It sounds great driving my caps upgraded thiel. Additionally, i have diy 3 new hifi racks in replacement of old tv console. I have recorded its performance for sharing. https://www.dropbox.com/s/ypsafv26i1em454/VID-20191203-WA0003.mp4?dl=0
desmond888 if you like the Goldmund sound- check out the new 590 Telos Integrated amp. Keep me posted on your situation and amp status.Happy Listening!
I don't follow this. Why would you not be able to choose either single *or* dual binding posts? Why would outboard eliminate a solution with a single BP?
If you have an outboard xo, then you would need two separate wire runs from the outboard - one for the coax and one for the bass driver. Therefore you would need one pair of binding posts for the coax and one for the bass driver to connect the wires from the outboard. Otherwise how else could you connect the wires going to the drivers?
But if you're going outboard, you will have to modify the binding posts to bi-wire anyway.
I don't follow this. Why would you not be able to choose either single *or* dual binding posts? Why would outboard eliminate a solution with a single BP?
I intend, in the coming weeks, to compare biwire using identical runs of cables to single cable plus jumpers.
didn't Tom say something about the length of the wire to the
drivers form the xo being significant to the design?
I don’t recall that. He monitors the Thiel Owner’s thread if
you want to ask him. I *do* remember he is a fan of short speaker cables. I
haven’t told him my cables are 2 m!
Tom *is* concerned with heat management because of possible drift
as resistors get hot. An outboard solution allows for this heat to be directly
vented to the room. One iteration of my build had the resistors in stainless
clips, mounted on aluminum bars. This really worked well for heat dissipation.
I ran the speakers overnight, then at SPLs I use for rock recordings for one
hour. Even a 30 ohm resistor was barely warmer than my skin. The bars, however,
introduced a subtle sonic anomaly and I preferred the SQ without the bars. I
did not run the same heat test after I removed the bars. That said, I don’t
have experience regarding SQ degradation resulting from hot resistors.
As for vibration control, I also lack experience in if/how cabinet/XO
vibrations degrade SQ. My build has the boards mounted with rubber feet against
the cabinet and between the boards and screw heads.
I think it’s instructional to note how very few speakers
have outboard XOs, even $$$ designs. The only outboard design I’ve heard (might
be the only one I can even think of) is the Avalon Ascent. This was a fantastic
sounding speaker and remains one of my “best ever”. But I heard it >25 years
ago so I don’t know how it compares to newer uber designs such as Vandersteen
7, TAD Ref One, etc.
Regardless, I am over-the-moon happy with the SQ of my
in-cabinet build.
Beetle regardding outboard xo's didn't Tom say something about the length of the wire to the drivers form the xo being significant to the design? Maybe not. If there is no adjustments for design criteria going to an outboard xo I would rather get outboard if it has the most sound advantages.
That is true that given the same configuration, having an outboard xo will require a slightly longer wire run from the outboard outputs to the driver inputs.
But if you're going outboard, you will have to modify the binding posts to bi-wire anyway. And if you're brave enough, you could place the bind posts on the back panel right behind the drivers (by drilling a few holes) which will shorten the wire run to the point which it will not be an issue.
Beetle regardding outboard xo's didn't Tom say something about the length of the wire to the drivers form the xo being significant to the design? Maybe not. If there is no adjustments for design criteria going to an outboard xo I would rather get outboard if it has the most sound advantages.
Early on, Tom and I considered outboard and I canvassed the Thiel Owners thread to gauge demand. Plusses include heat management, vibration control, and freedom to use large parts. Minuses include reduced WAF and added cost. I have no regrets with my configuration.
I think there may be an aesthetic issue. One of the thing I like the most about the CS2.4 is its well-proportioned. They look just right. With an outboard xover box, that could be an issue ... at least for me.
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