Thiel cs2.4 upgrade to cs 2.4 se

@those planning an upgrade of the 2.4. I've been in extensive talks with Clarity Caps and after harassing them (😬😬) I've got them willing to do a smaller batch of ten pieces each of the 14 uF and the 28 uF caps. The 14 will come in 630 VDC and the 28 will come in 250 vdc. 

The prices of the caps per piece, ex. VAT and shipping will come to:

PUR 14UH630V X 10 @ €165.00

PUR 28UH250V X 10 @ €142.50

This would mean 330 + 285 = 615 € (677 $ / 516£) for the set.

I'm in, I've got one potential buyer who I'll be PM-ing in a minute.

I need three more people willing to jump on the wagon..

PM me

Pieter

Thanks. @pieper1973 

I built the crossover board mainly for experiment to help my friend to upgrade his cs2.4. My 2.4 is the front L/R of all Thiel HT setup ( mcs1 center, powerplane side surround and two mcs1 back surround) so I didn't go too crazy and my parts selection is mainly depends on cost. 

My idea is to build a xover board about the same size as the original factory board, so it can fit inside the speaker cabinet on the same position. I also add some nylon standoff on the board so it can seat up side down in a pvc project box fill with resin for vibration control. But I found that put the crossover outboard is the best way to eliminate cabinet internal pressure/vibration and fill with resin seems unnecessary.

About the capacitor choice, beside the cs2.4se, Jim Thiel design most of his crossover using bypass, including the cs3.7 and cs6. Therefore I also go with bypass.

However, my friend was using his cs2.4 for two channel music playback, he changed his mind to upgrade the crossover due to very high parts cost (he consider using Audyn's copper cap) and bought a pair of cs3.7 instead.

@imhififan 

That looks nice..

I've sent an email to Clarity Cap and Miflex to ask if they would do A14 and 28 uF cap.. 

I've also planned mills resistances and Jantzen coils.. it's just getting the call values right in a single cap what I'm aiming for.. 

If they do so these caps, I'll let everybody know👍🏼

@pieper1973

My CS2.4 Mid/High xover use Claritycap CSA/ESA and Audiocap PPT Theta for bypass. The two 100uf non-polarized electrolytic replaced with Solen 200uF polypropylene capacitor. Resistors are Mills non-inductive wire wound, Coils are Jantzen.

I hope nobody minds me posting all these messages without waiting for a response...

I'm most probably going to do the mid and high section first, maybe also the bass..

If I combine capacitors, which can't really be avoided, would it matter much (and if yes, in what way) if I combine a 10 and a 3,9 uF to make (almost) 14 uF our of I combine a 13 and a1 uF?

I'm looking at the Jantzen amber or alumen.. the amber is pretty expensive.. maybe buy two of these in 1 uF and a 3.9uF 600V Miflex KPAL-01 Aluminium Foil Paper / Polypropylene in Oil Capacitor or audyn true copper also both a very good rating, not so expensive.. 

Our would you say it would be better to keep these small capacitors from the same brand? As I most probably will have the larger ones either Jantzen or Mundorf.. 

It's like standing in front of the milk cartons.. thousands of choices, which don't make it any easier 😉

I'm looking at coils at the moment and was wondering..

If I want a coil with 0,10 mH, I have the coice (Mundorf) between CFC 14, 16, 18 etc. 

These all habe same value mH, but different Ohm-values.. In the end I need to come to 30-31 Ohms on the mid/tweeter of the 2.4.. how much would the wrong coil distort.. Also, I don´t really know if the CFC stands for the same as AWG/ gauge... lower AWG means thicker copper strand, higher CFC means bigger coil.. (maybe ill get in touch with mundorf in germany... )

cheers

@holco 

Do you have a list of all components you put in your Thiel 2.4?

I'm going for an upgrade and was planning on Jantzen just like you with also flat coils.. you seem to be pleased with your setup..

Greetings,

Pieter

Just as an aside..

I had the 2.4's up for sale in eBay for a couple of days and decided to keep them and go for the upgrade...

I don't expect to be disappointed

Hi.

I'm new here..

Pieter from Germany.. ( Dutch, not German)

I have a, not yet fully operational, surround system with Atmos with only Thiel speakers.

Four SCS 2.3 shielded units; two with Mundorf caps and coils, two with clarity Mr various and Mundorf copper foil coils. These work great.

I have five onder SCS units; one for the center, which will also be made with clarity caps and foil coils, the other four (Atmos) will be made with Mundorf coils and caps.

I have one Thiel TSW 12.1 which needs a cabinet of 100 liters. I have a unit to drive it.. but this needs testing.

And then I have two SCS 2.4 which need to be upgraded to SE.

One of them is less open and I'm hoping this is due to a faulty electronics or writing and not a problem with the mid/high unit. This problem had been there since I've had them. Two years ago I blew this unit up during room correction with live Dirac.

Rob Gillum fixed this for me and I'm now in conversation about the SCS and the cs2.4.. 

Any suggestions from you is welcome.. Any suggestion on the best resistances, besides coils and caps?

I'll post some pics in the future..

Have a nice weekend

Pieter

Thiel CS2.4 Owner's Information (Page 5 of 6) | ManualsLib

spathak94506,

I have the complete opposite experience with the 7.2. I never heard them described as lean. Mine produce check thumping bass. There are certain things I only play with them as evert other fails in bottom end compared to the 7.2. 

I have a fairly large room 37'x60' with 10' ceilings which allows the 7.2 to clear its throat and open up and sing. 

The 2.4 is a gem of a speaker. 

spathak94506

Your ears do not deceive. The CS 2.4 is a real Honey of a loudspeaker. Sounds great with as little as 50w + 50w solid-state amp too! Delightful indeed.

Happy Listening!

I believe my 7.2s were finished in White Oak.   They were the original pair reviewed by TAS back in the day.   I purchased the entire system from Mike Kuller (one of their reviewers).  The set up was as synergistic as it could be but I just couldn't get them to sound balanced.   Tried some heavy duty Krell monoblocks and a couple top shelf pre-amps but they still sounded lean.  I ended up keeping some parts of his system (Manley NeoClassic maps, cables/interconnects and lots of room treatments).  But the 7.2s were sold.   Been listening exclusively to my Sound Labs since then.   But these little 2.4s are delightful.  And much easier to move around :)

desmond888

Are you out there? How about giving an update on your system?

Happy Listening!

spathak94506,

I have the 7.2 and 2.4 as well. The big Thiel's need room to breath compared to the 2.4. Also they need a monster amp. The big Krell and Pass Labs mate very well. 

What finish were your CS7.2?

spathak94506

Feel free to join us over on the Thiel Owners thread. I look forward in reading more about your Musical tastes. Nice system around the CS 2.4 loudspeakers.

Happy Listening!

Resurrecting an older thread here.

I just picked up a pair of CS2.4 as a secondary set of main speakers. Primary speakers are big Sound Lab M1 electrostats. I had a set of CS7.2s for a few months that I tried in my system. For the life of me, I couldn’t get them to sound right despite ample front end electronics and room treatment. They just sounded lean in the mid bass and as much as I wanted to love them, the Sound Labs sounded *much* better in every respect.

But these 2.4s, for some reason, sound wonderful. In some ways, I prefer them to the 7.2s. They don’t really compare to the 7’ tall Sound Labs in terms of sheer sound quality but there is something special about relatively small speakers throwing a huge sound stage and virtually disappearing in a listening room. I’m really impressed by them and ordered outriggers from Rob a Coherent Source Servicing. Also ordered the cap upgrade kit but they may take longer to arrive due to supply chain issues overseas. Regardless, it’s nice to listen to Thiels again considering they were my first taste of high end audio back in the 90s while I was in college. Lots of fond memories with the company having a special place in my heart. Over the last 25yrs, I’ve owned 1.2, 2 2, 3.6. 7.2 and now 2.4s.

Rest of the system consists of Manley Neo Classic 225 amps, ARC SP16, Luxman DA-06 DAC, Aurender server, MIT oracle cabling and a u-haul load of ASC room treatment/traps.

desmond888

Thank You for the update. Good to read that your Amp is up and running.

What gear is in your system now? I look forward to your joining us over on the Thiel Owners thread here.

Happy Listening!

I don't follow this. Why would you not be able to choose either single *or* dual binding posts? Why would outboard eliminate a solution with a single BP?

But if you're going outboard, you will have to modify the binding posts to bi-wire anyway.

didn't Tom say something about the length of the wire to the drivers form the xo being significant to the design?

I don’t recall that. He monitors the Thiel Owner’s thread if you want to ask him. I *do* remember he is a fan of short speaker cables. I haven’t told him my cables are 2 m!

Tom *is* concerned with heat management because of possible drift as resistors get hot. An outboard solution allows for this heat to be directly vented to the room. One iteration of my build had the resistors in stainless clips, mounted on aluminum bars. This really worked well for heat dissipation. I ran the speakers overnight, then at SPLs I use for rock recordings for one hour. Even a 30 ohm resistor was barely warmer than my skin. The bars, however, introduced a subtle sonic anomaly and I preferred the SQ without the bars. I did not run the same heat test after I removed the bars. That said, I don’t have experience regarding SQ degradation resulting from hot resistors.

As for vibration control, I also lack experience in if/how cabinet/XO vibrations degrade SQ. My build has the boards mounted with rubber feet against the cabinet and between the boards and screw heads.

I think it’s instructional to note how very few speakers have outboard XOs, even $$$ designs. The only outboard design I’ve heard (might be the only one I can even think of) is the Avalon Ascent. This was a fantastic sounding speaker and remains one of my “best ever”. But I heard it >25 years ago so I don’t know how it compares to newer uber designs such as Vandersteen 7, TAD Ref One, etc.

Regardless, I am over-the-moon happy with the SQ of my in-cabinet build.

Beetle regardding outboard xo's didn't Tom say something about the length of the wire to the drivers form the xo being significant to the design? Maybe not. If there is no adjustments for design criteria going to an outboard xo I would rather get outboard if it has the most sound advantages.

IME, put the crossover outboard improve clarity.

what a piece of wire can do ;)

Btw, the tighter/more bass was with the wax coil's