I don't think ARC is the only company to benefit from this strategy. After all, when was the last time that you heard a company release of a new product advertisement that went like this: "Our latest preamp is unfortunately a step back from our last design and we really have no clue as to why. The parts are superior in our new model, the designers worked longer on it, the aesthetic is better and yet is sounds worse! However, please be advised that the price is at least 20% higher, because of our needs for increased profits."
Here's the thing, that exact scenario has happened on numerous occasions in this hobby. As some of us can easily attest. |
Well, a whole bunch of the Ref 6 will hit the market when the new, totally redesigned Ref 7 is out which will be amazingly eclipsed in all parameters of sonicality by the new Ref 8 which will be sold like left over lutefisk because the new Ref 9 will redefine what it is to be made of sub atomic particles which will ....................... |
@Taters ... now that is funny!!
@Jwm ... to some extent I get your point. I have traveled the long road of ARC product development. Many times, I scratched my head thinking, ... I don't get it. For example, moving from the PH-7 phono pre to the PH-8, was for me a bust. I happened to have liked the PH-7 a little bit better.
Same with my move from the Ref 3 to the Ref 5 (not SE). The Ref 5 was supposed to be in another league. Not sure which league, but I didn't think the Ref 5 was a revolutionary upgrade over the Ref 3.
All that said, if you were to take a sonic pic of my rig today as compared to 5 years ago, I think the cumulative and steady mods have put my electronics in a different and much better place.
But I do get your point ... and frustration.
As to the Ref 6, I surmise this may be a very different piece of kit. Reason: unlike the Ref 3, the Ref 5 and the Ref 5 SE, the ARC Ref 6 uses 3 versus 2 6h30 tubes in the gain circuit, aside from other changes in the power supply and so forth.
I look forward to reading honest retail owner comments in the near future. Unfortunately, as many members have fairly quibbled, many professional reviewer comments tend to be company advertisements for new products. I remember reading an early professional review of the Ref 5 (not SE). I recall the reviewer saying something to the effect (as paraphrased) that "The King is dead. Long live the King," when he heralded the coming of the Ref 5 (not SE). BS!!
Cheers,
BIF |
I never saw a manufacture like them who claim they totally redesign each new product and the state of the are is the new state of the art. What a bunch of bull. Its funny every new product by them with the same statements, oh its more musical more 3d more accurate and faster. Please |
I'll hand it to ARC. When it comes to marketing high-end audio they are one of the best. They just keep making gear better and better. I think there next move show be designing hearing aids for their aging clientele. |
@Oregonpapa, lol! I enjoyed my time with my modded Ayon CD-5s & Aesthetix Romulus. I also really like Modwright, though I seem to prefer the sound of Vitus Audio these days, though Vitus Signature series does sound tube-like in some respects. |
JS Audio email on debut said $14 K |
Melbguy ...
Oh ... SS? You went over to the dark side. Come back ... come back ... the tubes are beckoning ... beckoning ... beckoning ... |
I read one guy pan the 'look' of the Ref 6 on another forum. I mean, what are you going to do...stand around looking at it all day? I think it looks contemporary, certainly a departure from the classic ARC look. But the more important point is, underneath ARC say it is a much better circuit in every respect. That is what would perk my interest for one, though i'm more of a ss guy these days. |
Mitch...the main reason you don't see many LS10s for sale
is because they weren't produced for very long. IIRC, the
LS10 was only around for a year (maybe two), then
discontinued. One of the shortest lived ARC preamps.
It wasn't very well received by the buying public or the
audio press. I don't think ARC made very many of them.
I agree with you, that it "could" sound very
good, but it was a hit and miss proposition at best. |
.
Mofi, the LS10 had a Jekyll-Hyde personality. When it was
good, it was one of the best preamps I'd ever heard. But it
was sooo unpredictable, on some recordings there would be so
many missing instruments and it drove me crazy. On some
recordings, it would leave out the background singers. I
got rid of it and got the Ref2 Mk2...which was an awesome
preamp. However, I could not get the LS10 out of my mind,
so I bought it again two years later. Still the same old
Jeckyll-Hyde act. I got rid of it again and got the Ref3
and have been in nirvana ever since.
But, since the LS10 was sooo good when it was good, I've
been wondering if ARC has improved on their solid state
preamp technology in the nearly 20 years since the LS10. If
so, I'd jump on one of them in a heartbeat. I never see
anything on the 'Gon about ARC solid state preamps. It
seems only the tube preamps get all the discussion. On its
best days, the LS10 was something special. It had the
blackest background I'd ever heard..it was almost scary.
Image, layering and soundstage was mind-boggling.
I think I'll buy one again and stash it if one ever appears
for sale here again.
They NEVER show up for sale here.
. |
Gundam91 says "i'm soooo behind". I am soooo behind too with my REF3LE with GNSC reference mods. Although i did have a GNSC modded REF2 MKI for a while and liked it a lot, i would not trade my LE for anything. In a head to head comparison with a REF5SE i had borrowed from an ARC dealer in Montreal when it first came out, i could not bring myself to trading in my LE (with more cash) on a REF5SE for very little (if any) sonic improvement.
Geez, i am still using a pair of GNSC modded Classic 120's with balanced inputs.
Likewise, i do miss the toggle switches of old. I have owned an SP9, SP14, LS16MKI, REF2MKI, REF Phono, PH3SE, DAC2, DAC7, but can't let go of the Classics. The REF3LE is a collector's piece as only 20 or so units were made at the end of the REF3 production run and half of those were 240V units destined for the European and Asian markets. That leaves only 10 units in circulation within the US and Canada. My unit is even more special as it has the GNSC mods that brings the sonic level very close to the REF5SE. "Special" also as GNSC is now defunct.
As i am now retired and working part time in a job that does not pay very much, i just can't get on the trade in, trade up, get gear modded band wagon anymore. So i'm just holding on to my old ARC GNSC modded gear (including a REF Phono 2 not SE) that still brings me musical joy. |
Mitch...I never really liked the LS10. I was an ARC dealer for many years and have personally owned almost all of the ARC preamps.
I still like the toggles :-)
Bdp24...yeah, all the features on the older ARC preamps were indeed very nice.
Gundam91...if you ever want to sell your GNSC Ref2MKI, let me know. IMHO, that's the best ARC preamp ever made, (well for my tastes and listening biases anyway). |
. This new look is going to have to grow on me. I love the look of the toggle switches of old also, but to me, the Ref 5SE was the best looking preamp ARC ever made. A close second is the very rare LS10 Audio Research LS10. |
No thanks, I will wait for the Reference 7SE MKIII scheduled for very near future |
This one could cause me to jump. I'd love to know the final retail price.
REF 5SE is $13K and the GSPre is $15K, so is $17-19K possible? |
I am sooooo behind. Still running the GNSC modded Ref 2 Mk I....
FrankC |
all aboard the ARC upgrade train... |
.
With the Ref 5SE at $13k, I wonder what the Ref6 is going to come in at?
. |
Mofi, I too think of the toggle switch style as THE classic ARC look. I've kept my LS-1 not just for that, but because of it's mode switch (Stereo/Reverse/Mono/Left/Right), something I wish ARC (and everyone else) would bring back. |
It kind of looks retro in a modern way if that's possible. It reminds me of a modern SP-3. I like it a lot.
From what I understand, the REF-6 gives the two chassis REF-10 a real run for its money, and is better in some ways ... and at less than half the price.
Who says trickle down doesn't work? |
Thanks for the update. Not really sure I like the looks?
I really miss the old ARC style with the toggles. |
