The damper, the tension wire and cantilever position

Do WAM make house calls? How else can they succeed in your stated goal?

@nandric These evaluations being made by yourself, on the idea certain Cart's are not being effected by deterioration as a result of having a long life since being issued and used are heavily laden subjective opinion, as it is for anybody who makes their evaluations known about Cart's with a long life behind them since being new.

There is also the idea once more forming, that an effort is being made for creating a self-advantageous position. It does seem that by giving such subjective appraisal that negates the idea, flaw is developing, will assist with maintaining or even ascending the financial value of the Cart'. Adding the idea that there is also a rarity of such Cart's will always be good for the achievement to be realised.

I'm throwing cautiousness to the wind, I no longer see how this Thread has anything to do with the OP, it seems to me, that it is leaning toward the notion that a priming is being undertaken for an upcoming event, the ground is being tested for producing a convincing theory.

Attempt's are appearing to be made, to create the suggestion that Cart's with deterioration resulting from wear and tear, are worthy of having an amplified Value placed on it. Especially, if there is also the intent to add some other versions of a romanticism about the origin of the Cart' being included in a description to a party showing a interest. The question is how much value can be added, especially, if the addition of the added Value is to be seen as being converted into a asking price.  

  

 

kennes, I don't believe I mentioned ''stylus angle'' in my thread. 4 variables

are obviously not sufficient for you. The most people can hardly handle

2 as the sentnce form prove : X is P. In place of variable X one can put

whatever name one like and in place of P as predicate varibale whatever

''property'', ''qualification'',or ''condemnation'', one want. My point was

that the cantilever must follow ''YOUR STYLUS'' in both directions: vertical

as well horizontal while this is allowed by damper's elasticity in both named

direction. If the cantileevr /stylus combo refuse to do so than either the

damper is dry out or to soft . In this case whatever shape your stylus may

have you will not get any sound from all 4 variables values, 

Dear Lew, You should not use American abreviation by addressing 

foreigners who already have difficulty to undertsanr your eloquent

English.''As simple as possible but not simpler ''as you ever stated

to be your credo. I have no idea what WAM means. 

Dear pindac, I am an suspicious creature and think that you invented an

difficult to ''grasp'' variation on ''strow man'' strategy. My intentions

are not hiden. Anyone can try his '''not straith cantilever'' to check my

assertion. Those who start with the whole adjustments procedure in

''static position'' obviously have forgotten the words of our first

real scientis Galileo : ''it moves''. Despite all the dangers of

Catholic inquisition. He  also was the firat who refute Aristoteles

physics who dominated western education for 2000 years.

Based on his authority. That is why back than there was no

discrimintion betweem ''authority'' and ''verity''.

@nandric I have not contributed to make my place within the thread as having a upper hand.

I have been prompted to be a contributor, in relation to a ’deviant’ cantilever, that looks straight in a groove.

I myself have been wanting to see an alternative description supplied within this thread as an explanation on this subject, as my knowledge is limited to my experiences.

My experiences have been that when a cantilever is discovered askew, it raises concern, and for some who have encountered this condition, the Cart’ is sent to a professional for further analysis. 

The info I draw on to produce my offered description, is from knowing individuals who have sent askew cantilever Cart’s away for a prognosis, (not all own up to this there is a Stigma) and the regular visits I make to Web Pages that specifically show the types of condition a Cart’ can arrive with and the intrinsic work a Cart’ undergoes to correct the conditions it has had when supplied to a Technician to undergo inspection and repairs.

I am with no other knowledge, that will suggest a askew cantilever is not the manifestation of another interface part being ’out’ on its designed for optimised set up.

This statement in itself is devaluing to the product and suggests monies are required to be parted with to receive a professionals assessment.

Monies don’t have to be parted with, if the suggestion is believed the Styli being placed in the Groove is an adequate corrective measure. This as a corrective methodology, is not a method for that I am able to endorse.

A ’deviant’ cantilever, is already showing signs it is with a compromised interface, and as such is capable of working outside of the designed operational envelope, and not be able to interface with the parts is interfacing with as par the design.

I am quite unfamiliar with discussion where the idea on the table, is that a askew cantilever is able to give one confidence of being a performer that is fit for purpose.

 

Pindac, To check my finding you need an cart with deviation to the left or

right side from straight and than simply repeat my experiment. If you don't

get the  same result , aka straight cantilever during the play than my ''theory''

is  wrong provided the damper is not defective. If the damper is defective

you can't play an rocord. Either the cantileevr will not  move at all or it will

colapse becaiuse the damper is to sofd  (low rider. )

Whatever description of the result in the sense of denial or confirmation

will than do..

 

Dear Nandric, Kennyc wrote this: "I believe that getting the stylus angle to the groove correct is paramount to good sound, but inconsistencies in manufacturing stylus to cantilever and cantilever to body(?) can cause subpar alignment.  So I'm going to use WAM Engineering to calculate via microscope the optimal angle to set my cartridges in order to get the stylus to align accurately with the groove."

I too have no idea what WAM stands for, so I just quoted the acronym.  Seems to me the company, WAM Engineering, would have to make the measurements described in kenny's post at his house, in his system.

Dear @nandric  : With all respect. For me this audio analog forum main target could be that any audiophile with any knowledge level can  learn what to do to improve the listen experiences.

Maybe I'm so stupid but I don't know how can help any one to improve its day by day listen experiences to answer your thread question:

 

" 

 it is

the groove which determine cantilevet/stylus position .? "

You already answered your self in the OP: silly question. Who cares? curiosity? or really silly question? . You said it not me.

 

Btw, 37 of 58 posts in the thread came from you. No I don't need you give me any answer to my post. Appreciated.

 

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,

R.

Yes Raul this thread is about me. I am damper. tension wire , cantilever and

stylus. All 4 variables work togther as myself.  There are limtless ways  to

use ''straw man'' strategy. My I remind  you abot you past? When you

bought , say, 25 cartridges and posted to Axel Schurjolz for ''refreshnemt''

without even listen to them first?  I have never seen any post of you in

wjich parts of your beloved carts are even mentioned . My quess is that

you have no idea how an MC cart looks inside. But you do often mention

LEVELS OF knowledge in Kantian  sense . Aka that you own this quality or

capability  A PRIORI. Delevered by Raul tor Raul. 

You must have at least one cart with ''deviant cantilever'' in your collection

as I do.  People start with some assertion believen it to be true and act in accordingly  with their assertion. My was that any deviation  from straight

meant defective cantikever. But I never tested tthis assertion but posted them

direct to Axel  Schurholz NOT FOR REFRESHMENT  but to get ''my cantileevr '' straight. 

You could check my new EGO by putting any of your cart with deviant cantiever

to test and THAN either DENY  OR CONFIRM my experiment.

BTW there can be only one PRIMA DONNA in our forum. You was but

at present we have one other. The fake New Zeelander. Whatever the

wine there he has, in your own terminoly, much HIHGER LEVEL OF

KNOWLEDGE REGARDING OUR hobby.. However he OBVIOUSLY

DOES NOT HAVE ANY CART WITH DEVIANT CANTILEVER SO NOT

IN THE POSITION TO DENY OR CONFIRM Nandric ''THEORY''. 

There is this ''curious'' theory that  ''NUMBERS DON"T LIE''. I WAS 

SURPRISED TO SEE HOW MANY CONTRIBUTION i MADE TO

THIS FORUM: + 4000.  But in comparisson with Rauls  12307. 

The numbers in other ''function''. Instead to check my finding by simply

repetition of my ''expeiment'' Raul made the effort to count the numbers

of my posts in relation to other posts. The ressult : 37 by Nandric  from

the TOTAL of (ONLY) 58 by others. . What kind of ''argument'' is this?

I would say that this says more about Raul than Nandric. .

 

I am realy sorry for ONE more post to my own thread but those numbers

forced me , so to speak, to think about them. In context with Wittgenstein.

I was skeptical about his understaning about what phylosophy is about.

The reason? His ''phylosophical investigation'' . In ''there'' he made

10000 phylosophical remarsk while in my opinion is  that an normal

person can rememer, say, 10. I also got some support from ''particle

physics'' .

Now according to Raul the main target of this forum is that teach memeber

can learn to improve listening experience.

So I thought about thiose numbers and  was able to see his numbers of post: 12307. 

But this is even more than the, say, modest 10000 by

Wittgenstain. 

'deviant' (being different from an expected normal).

The OP's First Statement

"My observation however is that also ''deviant'' cantilevers which nobody would buy look STRAIGHT IN DE GROOVE. Ergo:: it is

the groove which determine cantilevet/stylus position .?"

Does not the suggestion put the notion in place that the 'deviant' aspect is quite noticeable and certainly not subtle, especially as the term "nobody would buy" is used to help describe what is being observed.

Does not the opinion formed "which nobody would buy", lean toward the notion, that this is a recollection of a experience encountered, maybe as a result of being involved in confrontation's on such a subject as a result of being a Vendor. 

As said, my focus has been on the 'deviant' reference, and there in my thought is plenty to suggest 'deviant' and 'askew' are close in description.

The OP then later states

"People start with some assertion believen it to be true and act in accordingly  with their assertion. My was that any deviation from  straight meant defective cantikever".

At no time has it been presented that the 'deviant' has been referencing a 'deviation from straight' as being the witnessed form of the cantilever.

To cover this as an potential meaning to the vague description being offered. It has been  suggested that a "deviation from straight", has meant a defective alignment that is noticeable on the cantilever, which is assumed to be a sideways movement, as this is the one that is most likely to be perceived as a self corrected condition when the Styli is placed in the Groove.

The eye will have a harder time detecting a Vertical movement on something that is already set quite different to the horizontal position, especially to a degree that is only slight in its movement from the optimised position.

A collapsed cantilever will be the most obvious when assessing the horizontal positioning and again the placing of the Styli in the Groove is not going to offer anything to suggest this condition has corrected itself.

There is references made to the likelihood of a Mineral Based Cantilever is not commonly seen showing a curve/arch in its form, along with the suggestion a curve /arch is a possible condition to be discovered in a Metal Cantilever.

Neither a Curve or Arch to a metal material cantilevers form is going to be appearing corrected when the Styli is set in the Groove.  

There has been suggestion that the 'deviation' being referred  to is noticeable and one that would be so noticeable, that it has the potential to create a situation where a Vendor would be met with a Customer that would not be willing to purchase, as a result of witnessing a cantilevers obvious 'deviation'.

The referencing the idea the knowledgeable Customer has expressed a cautiousness to continue with a sale, as a result of the likelihood, the cause of cantilever 'deviation' is from a loss of a optimised set up at other interfaces the assembly has and which the cantilever is dependent on for its own optimised function.

I have chosen to use the term 'askew cantilever' (to one side - out of line) for being the indicator other concerning conditions are likely to be present.

As said, the simple evaluation is that, other costs are likely to be incurred as a means to have the parts within the assembly investigated for how they are impacting on the alignment of the Cantilever. There is projected cost to achieve a Cart' that is once more set up as optimised and enables the cantilever to have a operational envelope, that is suited to the design. The askew cantilever is a indicator that there is a secondary requirement  post sale, creating a road a customer is potentially not wanting to inherit as part of the journey to acquire a particular model of Cartridge.

From a personal standpoint, I do not fear buying a Cart' with an obvious fault, I do my due diligence put into practice and the forming an evaluation after having consultations, leaves me with a clear understanding of what I am about to put in place. I accept my ambitions for a faulty Cart' are with risks associated. I am also fully aware of the idea, the ambition may not be fruitful and ultimately be a waste of some of my monies. I also accept the idea, I am purchasing in a way that demands other monies are required to be spent to receive a appraisal and penultimately, the being informed the Donor is a satisfactory candidate for further works to be undertaken.

There is also in present markets, very few reasonable priced faulty Cart's from certain Brands Models. The very attractive trade in deals on offer for exchange models has made the donor model prices become more elevated, it does seem the influence on the price hike, is that models of interest are now being scooped up by individuals looking to buy into a Brands Cart' using a bought in faulty older model as the method using the Brands exchange policy.

    

   

pindac, regarding semantics you are at the right address. I am student of

logic, semantics and phylosophy of language for 30 years. But we are not

talking about semantics but about an experiment which can be done by

anyone. If they can't repeat the experiment this means denial of

my ''proposition'' or if they do confirmation. As you can SEE this is not

about semantics. I already have try to make this clear to you but obiviously

without succes. Do you own any cart with ''deviant cantilever''? I don't

believe this because if you deed you would repeat experiment and

not mess with definitions or explanation of words.

My support from particle physiscs was ''slightly'' different than my quote.

Fermi stated ''if I could rememeber the names of those partcles I would

have been a botanist''.

But my promblem is to explain how it is  possible to get support from

particle physics but not from ''our own Dover'? I think to have found the 

reason. As we all know he owns the best everiting in collectors sense:

the best TT's, the best tonearms, the best amps, the best SUT, etc.

the best. But my insult made by  impliction of my insinuation was that

he OWNS A CART with ''deviant cantilever''. Can you imagine such thing

by one perfectionist? But I only needed help for those damn screws on

both sides of the generator, I have pretty good idea what they are for

but am not sure. Even If I was willing to destroy one of my own carts

I have no idea how to do this. Those are smal metal tubes while i own two left 

hands. So the cheapest and most smart thing to do was to ask our second

authority regarding the knowledge of analog everything. But alas the

damage done can't be restored.

 

 

 

 

@nanadric even though replies from myself are repetitive and prolix, they are are not offered with a intention to be viewed as coming from somebody who styling themselves with a usage of language that is grandiloquent.

As for the lexical content of the OP, you have stated the following, it by myself, is being viewed as a means to describe a condition you have witnessed, and one which has been created as the outcome of your experiment. 

"My observation however is that also ''deviant'' cantilevers which

nobody would buy look STRAIGHT IN DE GROOVE. Ergo:: (using ergo with a replacement word, to assist with seeing the final statement being put )

Therefore :: it is the groove which determine cantilevet/stylus position .?"

The idea being proposed, to my interpretation, negates the notion, that there are interfaces between parts in the assembly that require critical attention to the setting up, which are required to ensure the cantilever>Styli is optimised in their position and the act as a constraint, ensuring the Cantilever is restricted to function within a operational envelope. 

What the statement does seemingly attempt to suggest, is that if a Cantilever is noticeably out, as a sideways alignment, as a result of the Styli being placed in the the Groove, the observation of the return to a Centre position is a acceptable method to correct this condition. If all one wants, is to observe a centred cantilever, then this is for most with this as the interest is adequate. 

In general the centred cantilever is not all one wants, there is the want for an overall correct function of the assembly that is designed and belonging to the model of Cart'.

The Groove being able to place the Cantilever as centred to the body, is not going to be enough for most with an interest in this as a functioning device, the outcome of your experiment will most likely not offer a reassurance a fix is in place. 

The Styli being placed in the Groove, in my thoughts, is not going to be adequate to correct any other conditions present, that may be with fault, and the askew Cantilever is the indicator something is amiss elsewhere.

My advice to 'anybody' with an interest in a Cart' and who are expecting the Cart'  to function to a standard that shares similarities with the Cart', at the time it was first put to use as a New Model. It will be best practice not to acquire a Cart' that has indicators present that suggest something is now quite different to how it appears as an unused design. 

If one has other ideas for the Cart' and have a different intention beyond just experiencing it used as a tool to create a replay. A Cart' can then be considered in any condition it has been discovered to possess.      

On what planet is this discussion taking place ?

The MC's produced on Mars seem to be much better than those

produced on Jupiter. But three is no consensus about MM kinds. 

Curious that we all hope on  ''extension''  of our hobby with more members

but proposed ''interplanitary'' extension by @ terraplane8bob got no

attention at all.

Also the problem with two screws which I ''suspected'' to have somtehing

to do with tension wire is solved. Instead waiting for dovers help I simply

asked my Polish retipper who, alas, only speaks Polish. The problem

with them is when you ask  ''are you Slavic?'' their answer is ''no we are

catholic'', He uees some , probably Japanese translator so we needed

some time to understand each other. I was not sufficient brave to ask

him if he speaks Russian. However he affirmed that those (damn) srews

are for the tension wire.