The best speaker you ever heard?

I remember hearing a pair of £150 speakers being driven by a very high end system at a show (old Penta Heathrow I think) in a very big room. They sounded fantastic!

Mapleleafs3 said:

" I've heard $10,000 speakers fed by a lousy source sound like crap"

Won't a $10,000 source make lousy speakers sound like crap also? You don't have those "White Van" speakers do ya?

Just kidding...I know what your saying, although...IMO, any weak link is a weak link... in the BIG picture.

Dave

The best I've heard were the Maggie 3.6's. I know they have a 20.1 which is better, but I've never heard it. They were set up in a dedicated room with high end solid state AR equipment. The room was about 30' X 25'. They had the rear wall and all corners treated with sound absorbers. The speakers were set about 10' into the room, about 6' apart facing straight ahead with no toe-in, allot of room to the sides. The listening poition was half way from the front of the speakers to the rear wall, approximately 10' from the speakers. I've been into this hobby for almost 30 years and have listened to many set-up's through the years, but nothing compared to this. A huge deep soundstage, detail galore, imaging like I had never heard before. I went to this store to audtion some Dynaudio's and brought along several disk I was familiar with. Couldn't believe how good every disk sounded. Just incredible.

With respect to the above, I think many good points are made. Source components are very important. I lack the expertise to appropriately prioritize the links in the signal chain (that's what people like Duane are for, and why I didn't just blindly assemble my system from the internet). However, my opinion is that it's necessary to have a system containing no glaringly weak parts if one seeks the best possible sound for the money. So as a practical matter, component matching and system synergy become the key ingredients. For example, in my system, the Summits sound their very best only when they have the Dodson 217 Mark II D (with its upgraded 218-like software) in the chain. Even though they are a rather efficient speaker at something like 89, 90 or 91 dB, they STILL sound way, way better when driven by an outstanding amplifier, such as the Odyssey Extreme monoblocks which have a lot of power (I reviewed them under "Amplifiers). The amplification power and current are PARTICULARLY important in extracting the best bass response from a loudspeaker. That was true for the Paradigms (also very efficient but still loving the Odyssey power and current) and it is also true for the Summits.

As a practical matter, it becomes almost irrelevant anyway which piece in the system matters "most". They all need to be good.

As a follow-up to my prior post to this thread on 11/12/05, I have now posted the review of the Intuitive Design Summit PSL 624 loudspeakers I'd mentioned, and it is under "Product Reviews" in the "Speakers" category.

"Source is key" is not entirely accurate. Firstly, the originator of this thread stated that the speakers were most important, in his "OPINION."

Secondly, there is obviously a MUCH bigger difference between the top-end and bottom-end quality of speakers and the top and bottom quality of say, CD players. Now let's say the amp being a constant, take the best CD player in the world, and match it with some awful speakers ... paper-coned, single-driver, tweeterless crap ... it will sound awful. You would never know that there was a great CD player, or maybe amp, behind them.

Now take the worst CD player in the world and match it with amazing speakers, and it will sttll sound pretty good. WAY better than the 1st scenario. You would know that the speakers were of at least some quality. This is because there is less of a gap between the best and worst CD players than there is between the best and worst speakers. This does not mean that I want to argue that the source is less important, but one could argue that since a $50 CD player with $5,000 speakers sounds better than a $5,000 CD player with $50 speakers, the speakers are the more important component to get right. Now I don't mean to start a flame war here... I have heard the difference in cables, amps, cd players, and turntables ... it's all true and I know it to be first-hand, but all things being equal, speakers are more variable and make a bigger difference, "in my opinion."

Source IS the most important part of a system but a system is still a collection of all its parts. It is NOT true that the system is only as good as its weakest link. The weakest link is only the smartest place to spend money. Once the source is pretty darn good then other things including the speakers will make big differences even though a better source will always make a big difference. The problem is that most people can't listen to original master tapes which stomp any table or CD I have heard.

The most important part of an Audio system is the source. Garbage in Garbage out. The spaeker being most important is
fed by MFGS and Reatailers. Thats where the biggest margin is.
Dont be fooled. Source is key. I have heard 10K speakers fed with lousy sources sound like crap and great soureces making moderetly priced speakers sound great. If the source is laking all the speaker in the world cant help it.

Best speakers I "EVER" heard...? Bose, "You are there"
(and you wished you were someplace...anyplace else!)

>>Advents still rule<<

Yessir just like Edsels and Corvairs. Rock on!

Advents still rule! After digging mine out of storage after twenty years and getting them re-foamed, they play all types of music beautifully. Ineffecient but detailed and accurate,they sound better than anything I can find under $1000 to $2000. Rock On!

Jctedinburgh:

I had the Avanti 3's on my original short list but never got a chance to audition them, since there are no local dealers. Everything I've ever read about them has been glowingly positive, however. Welcome to the "Satisfied with my Loudspeakers" club, of which I am also a happy (ecstatic, actually) member. Congratulations!

I haven't heard a lot of the speakers on the list, but I would like to cast my vote for my current speakers, the Audiophysic Avanti III. I have only had these speakers for two weeks and already they've bettered the best of the other speakers I've heard (including ATC100, Isobariks, ART Audio, B&W N801s, etc.).

What's more, they're a simply gorgeous speaker to look at, and far more balanced IMHO than the Virgo III. The sound I would categorise as incredibly nimble but dynamic, perfect timing, very very tight bass (though not as much as with some bigger speakers) and a very silky, extended top-end. Very much like a state-of-the-art mini-monitor but with bass to match.

I've never heard a pair of Avantgarde horns, however - my wife blackballed them out of hand on their appearance (not to mention cost) so that's one speaker that may well live up to the hype, but I am happy with my Avantis...

The Stax F-81 is the best speaker I ever heard. What did they sound like? Think about their best headphone systems, only better! They were the least-colored transducers I've ever heard. Unfortunately, they were completely unstable, and kept buzzing and crackling throughout the demonstration. At the time I was shopping for speakers (around 20 years ago), they were also incredibly expensive at $3300.

The best dynamic speakers I've ever heard? Wildly different choices: the KEF 105.2 and the Klipsch Cornwalls. The 105's threw a huge and realistic soundstage around six feet in front of the speakers, and the Cornwalls, blasted a symphony orchestra at real-life levels without a hint of strain or running out of gas--this with a 50-watt amp, as I recall it.

Mdhoover, This hobby is still lots of fun.

p.s. Thanks, Duane!

Well, previously it was the old, three box version of the Audio Physic Caldera, with about $7,000 of electronics feeding them. Those retailed for around $20,000, but were available for "only" $10,000. I'd have bought them on the spot, had I been in a position to do so. I would have to say that the speakers I currently own, for ~5K with the stands, rival--and probably surpass--the Calderas, which is a REAL surprise. Duane sold me a pair of Intuitive Design Summits, which I decided to buy just about a year (or less) after having JUST upgraded my speakers. My wife was appalled, but we agreed that this would be my last major audio purchase for a "long time". That will be no problem whatsoever, as these have completely blown away even my most ridiculously unreasonable expectations, and will almost certainly be the last speakers I ever buy, and I am in my early 40's! All this at the real world (for an audiophile anyway) price of about $5000. I plan a review soon, but have just a wee bit more tweaking to do, and am hoping to be able to do justice to these utterly fabulous masterpieces.

First place goes to Karmas with a close second to Intuitive Design Denali.

I recently heard the Montana WAS speakers which IMO are among the very best I have ever heard. Palpable soundstage and imaging, the lowest and best bass I have ever heard and absolutely lovely midrange and upper frequencies. Frankly, it is hard to imagine any speaker getting much better than this. I felt like I could walk up and touch the players on stage. Just amazing. If only I had the room to accomodate them!

I heard a pair of Analysis Audio Epsilons with all Electrocompaniet electronics,Soundstring cables that pulled me into the music like nothing else ive heard!!!I truly understand why fans of planar/ribbon speakers are such a devoted lot!!!

Magnepan 20.1 and Quad ESL 63 seemed to provide the best reproduction of the human voice and reproduce acoustic instruments to my taste better than anything else I have heard. They arn't strong in bass but a sub can be used if you need to go deep into low frequencies.

update...best I've heard is the Magico five way hybrid speakers which require external crossovers and ten channels of amplification. Four 3 Dimension Audio SET and one push/pull (on the 86db woofer) 300b interstage coupled amp with custom tubed active crossovers powered the speakers.

Simply the best and the closest to the type of sound I have heard so many times at the Greek Theatre in Berkeley.

They do require a bit of saving for, though.......

For overall coherence, depth of field, width of image, and all round eveness from bass to the top of treble, I was most impressed with Avalon Eidelons driven by Conrad Johnson ART2 and Premier.
For the life like feel and presence look no further than Yamaha NS1000M's - Ebens sound similar, so do the John Marten design coltranes - but the Yams are easier to drive, adjustable, and just take you to the acoustic. Also they are still affordable.
I did hear some electrostatics recently by a Chinese company called King Audio - they were superb - probably good value for money too.
Art audio speakers have a sense of rightness, and cut from the same cloth, but more to the professional monitor side are Proac speakers - in a small room Response 1SC's are magic.
Before you spen any money though consider building them for yourself - I have my NS1000M's and my own handbuilt pair. And I do say that they are quite a pair indeed - (As the actor said to the bishop).

Lohan

I haven't heard too many of the high end pieces of kit, but I remember specifically a pair of Living Voice speakers - Air Partner I believe - which were stunning - this was about 15 years ago - don't know how much things have moved on since then but if I can remember it now, they couldn't have been bad.

They did however lkook like wardrobes!

KLH ELECTROSTATIC PANELS in 1967 and HILL PLASMATRONIC in 1971. ALTEC 604D in 1973.

The best speakers that I have ever heard are my Legacy Focus 20/20's, I used to think that my cornerhorn's were the best sounding until I heard my 20/20's.

I have owned just about every top of the line speaker but without doubt the single best speaker I have ever heard is the Wilson X-2 Alexandria. You can have a look at mine

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?vaslt&1049587927&read&3&4&

http://homepage.mac.com/imacdoyou86/PhotoAlbum52.html

Pierre Étienne Leon dont know the model.

My answer this time;about 5 years later,would be for the best speakers I've owned.--You know,that which I can listen to every day, Wilson Sophia. These produce about twice as much music as the Merln MM's I just sold.---Yet on paper they both go down to the same 30-ish figure????

All right, let's get to it! Has anyone besides Bob Ludwig and the crew at Eggleston Works auditioned the Ivy's. Waiting with baited breath! Thanks

My brother needs 100watts RMS to drive the B313's but they are nominal so a fairly easy load. My Totem Winds capture alot of the characteristics of the Bozaks plus more inner and low level detail...check out new stereophile review of old Bozak Concert Grands...my brother had a pair of these as well at one point! Most modern speaker builders design out the natural dynamics and smooth full midrange that is the hallmark of live music. The new Wilson Sophia $12000 delivers what the old B313 did for $600??

Dav_B: I have a pair of these Bozaks in my living room. These do sound better than anything current, BUT they are only 85db/1watt. I think that you have hit on something important. The YEAR 1962 may be the dividing line , ANY speaker prior to this year had a great, real , full and beautiful sound. 1962 marked the end of an era(lasting 50 years) that was the GOLDEN AGE of speakers. Nearly 100% of speakers after 1962 sounded thin, distorted and not worth listening to. This could be that in 1962 the Alnico magnets and field coils were becoming extinct as well as the art of speaker making. Can anyone tell me how a speaker can be designed on a computer that will sound good to a human ear?

Mint604...ever heard of the Bozak B313 circa.1962. My brother still has them and I must say, they are more musical than most current production speakers. Having been through the mill, I currently enjoy Totem Winds...Totem seems to grasp the essence of music more so then my Watt/Puppy 6's or B&W 801N's did.

The "Best of Anything" exists ONLY in the listeners mind. This is an unobtainable goal that is never reached. It remains as a virtual imaginary ultimate conception that we only approach a little at a time, it is utilised as a mental referance point for mental comparisons only. That said, I concur that the Hill Plasmatronics is the only "Jaw Dropping" suspension of disbelief "better than reality" enthralling, compelling and now completely unobtainable (less than 100 made) sound reproducerI have heard. Second to this is the back seat speaker from a 1955 Cadillac. 99.9999999% of all speakers are an insult to my ears.

kkbt61, have you also heard the JBL Paragon? Two "experts" have told me it is superior to the K2s.

Wilson X2 alexandria, bar none (heard with spectral electronics and emm front end...and I am a vinylophile). Before that it was the somewhat obscure Platinum Audio Air Pulse.

I just heard the ne B&W N802D's with Mcintosh seperates...holy f--kin sh-t!!!

Hands down JBL K2. Used to think it was a toss up with the B/W 801 and Infinity Beta. Then I heard the K2's. Damm!!!

Probably the Von Schweikert VR-11 or VR-9 (I own the VR-9). The VR-11s have the slight edge in scale and ease of presentation, by virtue of their much bigger size, but they need a lot of space to really sound their best. The 9s, though, were better in imaging, intimacy, and overall user friendliness and flexibility. Either way, the two are the best speakers I've ever heard, and I've owned the Kharma Midi Exquisites and heard many more elite speakers, including the Alon Exotica Grand Reference, Kharma Exquisite 1Ds, and various Avalons. They VSAs just don't exhibit any real weaknesses.

Many years ago , I first heard then began to build the kits which Bud Fried offered to hobbyists , they were far too $ for me factory made .
One could 'tweak' these and I did in the building of over 100 enclosures ,(many boxes went to dealers unstuffed , and I stuffed some too), I've had 4 sets in 25 years (retrofit).
I tryed many different capacitors , inductors , resistors , wire . The basic - just as Bud sent - set sounded real good . But , fully tweaked , these Transmission Line Subwoofer/Satellite full range systems sound to me more like real unamplified instruments sound . And the effortless reach down low is a great plus .

Totem Hawks...in the presence of music being played...they haunt you and demand you listen as much and as long as you can!!! Truly soul stirring, more than I can say about my Watt/Puppy 6's, 801N's, Dunlavy V's, ML Prodigy's or Magnapan 3.6's! The Winds and the Forest are equally special in unique ways. Magic be made here..dare ye try them?

Justubes,
As I said, I finally sold them for about twice what I paid for them...and you are right, there were plenty of buyers who responded to my ad. I kept them for so long, because I thought there would SOMEHOW be a way to make them work. I moved around quite a bit, but I really think I just needed a permanent house with a HUGE listening room. Some rooms sounded better than others, of course, and I was always reluctant to let them go because of their tremendous, accurate bass and their near-perfect dispersion pattern: they filled any room wall-to-wall, and it's tough to give all that up. But I finally gave up when I had to move cross-country, and realized that I had to have something that reproduced the "silky" characteristic of massed violins in a symphony orchestra (my favorite type of music). Some smaller B&W's actually sounded better, overall, than the Khorns in my smaller apartments, because they captured the upper-mids to highs more smoothly, even though they couldn't approach the Khorn bass quality. Cheers and happy listening.
Gerald

GkCC

I'm very sorry that your experience with these amazing speakers is not as superb as mine. I made sure that the rest of my gear matches the fabulous horns of the Khorns. I never had any of your bad experience. As a matter of fact mine was all sonic nirvana. Why did it take you 20 years before you realizing is not for you??? It seems odd that all those years you have not sold it to somebody. It is very easy to unload--people are lining up for the mighty KLIPSCHORNS.

Yo, Justubes,
I owned K-horns for 20+ years. I absolutley loved everthing about them...BUT, the 4,000 Hz - 8,000 Hz peak drove me crazy. On almost all of my classical recordings, they made the violins sound like wire, and twangy wire at that. Higher-pitched brass instruments would drive you from the room with a whanging headache. Their bass was the deepest, most natural I have EVER heard, and their legendary sensitivity made them driveable to full volume on less than a watt. Hell, I could have driven them to 100db with a battery-powered wristwatch! I kept them for 20 years for their virtues, hoping to be able to eliminate the one damnable flaw by experimenting with different electronics, etc. But no luck. I finally sold them, for TWICE what I paid for them, and the buyer was ecstatic (still is) to get 'em so cheap! Now, THAT's value!!
I never had a room that was large enough to space them 20 feet apart, though. The most I could do was around 15-16. I DID hear K-horns, with a derived center channel (the "Heresy," I believe), in an enormous room...it had to be over 40' wide. If you sat at least 30-40 feet away from them, the peak was ameliorated and they sounded fine. The guy (lives in Hong Kong) used vintage McIntosh tubes...25 watts per side. I suspect you are right, that SET's in a large, LARGE room might do the trick. You'd only need 1/2 to 1 watt to fill the LA coliseum! Even though I had no luck with 'em, it's fun to read about someone else who responded so positively to these "old" classics.
Happy listening!
Gerald Clifton

KLIPSCHORNS--Read on..I'll tell you why. Before I ended up with a pair, I been nosing around high end audio stores and listening to some high end setups. I have heard GRAND UTOPIAS, AVANTGARDE DUOS AND TRIOS, WILSON GRAND SLAM and DYNA AUDIO--can't remember the model but their about 7ft. tall. The salesman usually tells me what the speaker is all about and more importantly the price. None of these speakers impress me. I don't know, maybe because of the listening room--or just the overall setup. One weekend I got invited to a get together in a friend's house. In the basement they had a pair of 1985 KLIPSCHORN on the corners-- 20 FT. apart being driven by a 300B SET amp. The chair I sat on was about 8 ft from the front wall. For the first time the hair all over my body stood up. I could not believe what I was hearing. The depth and width of the Soundstage, the three dimensional very life like midrange and the immediacy. That's when I found out that these speakers where first made in the late 40's to present with very little changes. Now why would a company make the same speakers for over 50 years if it's not THE BEST SPEAKERS in the planet.

Legacy Whispers are Whonderful!

What about the Wilson Maxx 2? Can the duos get that kind of bottom end clean, sharp punchy bass response???

Gallardo, I like your $8,000 limit. Would you rate 4 or 5 current models you think are as good as money will buy ?

audio physic libras - great bass, lovely mid range and good tweeter, especially in the right near field listening venue.

In the 1970's, at home then, the AR-LST, in the recording studio 1980's, the Yamaha-NS1000, at home in the 1990's, the Cello Amati, and in 2005 at home, the Meadowlark Nighthawks. And quite frankly, anybody who spends over $8k in a pair of home speakers, its just plain nuts, as there many many good sounding speakers under that price range that are not surpassed by any esoteric speaker beyong that range. Even Forrest Gump knows better than that!

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Ino Audio pi60 Signatur. correct sound reproduction at its finest.