In my opinion, the speaker is by far the most important part of the audio system. After all, it is the only part you hear. OK, the other stuff really matters a lot, but without a great speaker... No go.
I am a bit 'speaker-obsessed' I guess, and now I am wondering: What are the best speakers you have ever heard, and what made them the best?
Rlapporte, what you may have posted years ago has nothing to do with your recent post, which by your admission is of a product you sell and must be viewed as self promotional, and you did not disclose the fact until you were called on it. You also tried to divert attention from that by changing the subject and joking around. Maybe you should read the moderation guidelines and register as a dealer instead of as a private individual. I do not appreciate dealers pushing their stuff on discussion sites like this, especially when they hide the fact they are selling what they are praising. Doing so is highly disingenuous and unprofessional.
Boa2, Sorry that I interpreted your response to be directed toward me. As I re-read it, I see that you were clearly responding to Sphere.
Ronfr...wow...pretty harsh accusations and interpretations. I have absolutely no problem disclosing in my posts that I am a dealer and I will again say, to all, that I meant no deception.
Ironically, Ronrf, you have given me, and my status as a dealer, much more attention than I ever intended to receive on this thread. All I wanted was to state a personal opinion. My origninal pithy response was directly related to the thread topic. Although you and some others might have been more comfortable with disclosure, I somehow imagine the possibility of being confronted for diverting the thread to my dealership. I believe that once we finalize our "dealer" account with Audiogon, I will use that log-in and the disclosure issue will be self-evident.
You obviously believe my use of humor to be deflective. I think you are reaching. Perhaps we should get better acquainted. I have no intention of avoiding the use of humor. That said, I truly hope to never offend anyone.
Your use of terms like "by your admission", "until you were called on it" and "..tried to divert attention" suggests that something else is going on here. I'm just not as sinister as you seem to believe. I propose that we put this to rest and not take up any more forum time/space. If there's a personal agenda or issue that I'm not aware of, please feel free to email me personally. I hope this is not perceived as an attempt to hide ... I'm just not sure how else to help put this issue to rest.
I have absolutely no problem disclosing in my posts that I am a dealer and I will again say, to all, that I meant no deception.
I'm sure this was the case, Ron. It might help you to know that quite a few of us are sensitive to the issue of disclosure, as some have gone as far as using alternate monikers in order to anonymously plug the products they sell. So, thanks for being so forthright. Glad to have you around. And if I find $150K under my couch cushions, I will contact you for a serious audition of those speakers. :-)))
Sphere, I hear what you're saying. And as someone new to these forums, you should know that a dealer's disclosure is ALWAYS expected here. As I mention above, quite a few have gone to great attempts to keep that relationship hidden, using friends and multiple Audiogon monikers to do so. And it's not OK.
Boa2, thanks for offering the benefit of the doubt, humor, and straightforward expression of the issue. Deception is likely a bigger issue on forums than I considered. I am on a number of Yahoo audio-related forums and have always used my name. Years later, when I opened a store, I disclosed this as well.
My future alternative moniker might have to be a bit more creative than my name:-)).
Dear Boa2. I new only on this forum.I am quite well versed with what you are indicating on other forums.It is just that I have learnt to ignore such small issues and enjoy audio discussions more.If a person has an opinion, commercial or not, just take it,how to use it is entirely upto you.Besides a person like yourself is extremely intelligent and will automatically know what to to ignore.I too will look under a lot of couches.hehehe. Cheers.
If anyone accidentally purchased a pair based on Ron Lapporte's insidious and devious ploy to sell Rockport speakers, I will purchase them from them as an effort to bring balance to the universe.
Seriously, if you're in the market for speakers in the 10k plus price range, then go hear the lineup.
I love my Hyperions, and the Arrakis could be an even bigger leap forward.
An earlier post declared the best speaker was, "no speaker. it's ive music." I used to agree, typos aside. That is, until this last weekend. I went to Jim Salk's house to audition a pair of his Veracity HT3s. After listening for a bit, I came to the conclusion that they are better than live. Or at least what live SHOULD sound like, were it properly miced, set-up, and amped. They magically fill the room with high resolution, no distortion, crystal clear music. Exquisite and incomparable - both in sound and asthetics.
B&W's flagship Nautilus speaker (you know, the "Racing Snails"). I wont say it's the perfect speaker, but I could not detect any flaws in the sound or the presentation.
Dear Dingus, excellent choice.Infact that speaker is a text book loudspeaker design.The designer is a genius.The original concept called for a 4" dome instead of the 4" flat mid-woofer, but B&W did not want to fund such an expensive and time consuming driver project.Till date whenever B&W tries to design a replacement, they still cannot come up with even one concept that seems to better the Nautilus project. BTW the MF and HF drivers on the new Vivid speakers are the culmination of the designers ideas with regards to metal domes. Here is a little trivia,the original Nautilus was conceptulised as a 5 way, using a 16"/8"/4" dome/2"dome/1" dome.Cheers.
Rockadanny: I went to Jim Salk's house to audition a pair of his Veracity HT3s. After listening for a bit, I came to the conclusion that they are better than live. Or at least what live SHOULD sound like, were it properly miced, set-up, and amped. They magically fill the room with high resolution, no distortion, crystal clear music. Exquisite and incomparable - both in sound and asthetics.
I'd be curious to know which speakers you are comparing HT3's against? A comparison with Tyler, Zu, Silverline, Acoustic Zen, Daedalus etc would be great, but if you have others in mind it would be good to know what they are.
Aktchi, Comparisons were of some speakers past. I admit that the HT3s were nearly the most expensive speakers I've heard. The others: Audes Blues; Tannoy Eyris DC-3; Vandersteen 2ce; Von Schweikert VR-2; Zu Druid; Vienna Acoustic Beethoven Baby Grand; Polk LSi25; Martin Logan (?). And IMO the HT3s were not just better, but better by far. Then there are mine: EgglestonWorks Fontaine, but truthfully speaking I am holding judgement on these until I get my system back up and operating. It has been out of commission for a few weeks. I am looking forward to comparing the HT3s to my Egglestons soon. So I guess I jumped the gun a little comparing the HT3s to my Eggys. Keep in mind that the HT3s use perhaps the best drivers available, with an amazing ribbon tweeter, and a cabinet whose size and construction contribute to the enhancement of the sound. Of the other speakers I mentioned (except for my Eggys) , I never felt their cabinets played any significant role in adding to the quality of sound. And IMO the cabinet is just as critical as the drivers. Dynamics is one thing, and many of the above speakers have it. But only the HT3s, and I suspect my Eggys, have properly sized and contructed cabinets to add qualities such as tone, timbre, and clarity, making them musical.
BTW the MF and HF drivers on the new Vivid speakers are the culmination of the designers ideas with regards to metal domes. Here is a little trivia,the original Nautilus was conceptulised as a 5 way, using a 16"/8"/4" dome/2"dome/1" dome.Cheers. Sphere
Sphere, Thanks, I know next to nothing about the original Nautilus and appreciate any further info I can get. Certainly an exceptional speaker. Guess I will have to check out some Vivid speakers now.
Rockadanny: Aktchi, Comparisons were of some speakers past. I admit that the HT3s were nearly the most expensive speakers I've heard. The others: Audes Blues; Tannoy Eyris DC-3; Vandersteen 2ce; Von Schweikert VR-2; Zu Druid; Vienna Acoustic Beethoven Baby Grand; Polk LSi25; Martin Logan (?). And IMO the HT3s were not just better, but better by far...I am looking forward to comparing the HT3s to my Egglestons soon.
For some of us, your comparison against Zu Druid is meaningful because a few in this forum hold and promoe it to be the best speaker below Zu Definition (around $9000). Others mentioned in similar esteem are Tyler, Silverline, Daedalus, Adagio. Hence my interest in comparisons.
Is HT3 fussy about amps, room placement etc? Would it sound good at low volumes or in smaller rooms?
BTW, when you were at Salk's, did you listen to any of his 2 way models at all, HT2 and QW? If so what did you think of those?
Let me state my .02 on the dealer participation (welcome) and disclosure (always a must).
It is not a matter of doubting someone's honesty or integrity, but understanding any conflicts of interest. You wouldn't think it was ethical if Sean Casey or Ty Lashbrook or Jim Salk or one of their employees posted as "MusicLover2000" and without disclosingt the affiliation, said his company's speakers are the best. Dealers are in the same boat.
An individual can say whatever he wants about any product. We may doubt his expertise and knowledge but not the freedom. But even the most honest employee or dealer does not have that latitude. He can speak freely about many things but not about many others. So a dealer's opinions have to be interpreted in light of that limitation.
To dealers I would say, I know it is heart-warming that you want to, and feel you should be able to be just one of the guys. And in my home or yours you probably can. But in the end you do know the truth that in public forums you can't, and in spite of our home-like folksiness, this is a public forum. No matter how you rationalize it, some words have to be measured, softened, watched for. Just like a guy who works for Nikon can never be just one of the hobbyists in public discussions about camera. There are invisible strings attached to you and we need to know what they are. So, don't rationalize, do the right thing always and disclose your affiliations.
I do agree that listening for yourself is best - so go and listen and you don't have to read anybody's opinion. That's how I lived when I had the time, and you have my envy and admiration. But this is not an argument for diluting ethical standards: those who do take the time to read an opinion need to be able to consider it properly; even if you use A'gon casually, its integrity has to be maintained for those who like to use it more seriously.
Aktchi, I understand your interest in comparing the HT3s to Tyler, Silverline, etc., as those are presumably in a class higher than most speakers I have heard. Unfortuntely I have not had the opportunity to hear any of them. I would love to go to one of the shows to hear speakers like those, but travel is nearly impossible. I can only hope that one day a show will be in Atlanta. We did not try different amps, but I suspect not (fussy), for two reasons: (1) The amp used was a Van Alstine Fet Valve Ultra 550 (hybrid - 250 wpc). (Pre and DAC also Van Alstine Ultra series, transport unknown, but nothing special. Also, speaker cable was plain old hardware store 12 gauge wire.) This gear, though well built, is relatively affordable and very straight forward engineered (all stock power cords). In other words, about as plain a set-up as one could have. (2) Jim stated that he sometimes demos his HT3s with lower powered amps, some costing only a few hundred dollars, with similarly impressive results. After visiting with him and experiencing his modest set-up, I do not doubt this statement. I am not sure how sensitive to room placement they are as we did not move them around (130 lbs. on a spiked plinth, carpeted room), but they are dual rear ported at the bottom (woofer) of the cabinet. They were approx. 3' from the front wall and several feet from either side wall, toed in slightly. Medium-sized HT type room, but no special treatments noticed at all. At one point, Jim pushed the volume way higher than anyone would/could listen to. I suspect that the room contributed more to the ear pain than distortion. His drivers (cone material) are super high def/ low distortion. I went there hoping to hear a QW that was for sale on A'gon, but it was sold. I did not listen to any two-ways. I wish I could have, but I was crunched for time per my flight home that afternoon. (Jim's place was not the purpose of my visit to Michigan, just a quick side-trip. Though an awesome one, at that.) As far as comparing them to the Zu Druid, overall I found the Zu less full, with less satisfying timbre. To me, the music produced by the Druid sounds like its coming from a tall, shallow box. The HT3 simply fills the room to capacity with music as if there were no box speakers involved at all. If interested, my review of the HT3s is posted : http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?topic=29112.0
Laurence Dickie, the then head techie in B&W, conceived the Nautilus as a true terminated transmission line to completely eliminate rear wave from the driver.The original design called for the 5 way I mentioned earlier,but was shot down by B&W top brass and was finally conceived as a 4 way that you see.It uses an active crossover and needs identical 4 stereo or 8 monoblocks per pair.The crossover is an advanced Bessel type,originally manufactured by Krell,later due to misunderstandings between the two companies was shifted to another source.Lawrence put in many state of the ideas into this procduct for driver isolation,dome construction,magnet and motor construction and a host of other innovations.The enclosure was manufactured by Lotus sports cars, because the diffraction free design drawn by Laurence's girlfriend (an industrial designer )needed expert fiberglass fabrication techniques. There is a lot of stuff which I have not mentioned as it will take up pages. Do check out Vivid, it is vivid in presentation and takes time to get used to,as it is too transparent,Cheers.
Linkwitz Orions with 12” Peerless XLS woofers, Seas T25CF002 tweeters and Seas W22EX001 midrange drivers in a 3-way dipole design. Siegfried Linkwitz is the nearly legendary designer of the Linkwitz-Riley crossover, Audio Artistry’s acclaimed Beethoven Loudspeaker System, and the Orions, perhaps his greatest accomplishment in speaker design. After listening to the Orions, I wrote this review for a friend: “The Orions were so transparent, and conveyed such openness, I couldn't tell they were in the room. They sounded neutral to me, not adding to or coloring the information coming from upstream. They had a dramatic three dimensional quality. The soundstage was huge and stretched in every direction. I could not tell that the sound was coming from the speakers. The music flowed over and around me with such realism and so effortlessly that, within my limits to perceive it, I couldn’t detect a single flaw in the playback. The sound was so pure, nothing in the system seemed to create distortion of any kind. Imaging was superb. Instruments and voices were clearer and more defined than with any speaker I have ever heard. There was no noticeable degradation/roll-off with any of the instruments. The low end was full, deep and grand. More information seemed to come through the low end than I’m used to hearing. I've never heard anything that can compare to the bass of these speakers, so tight and articulate. I liked the way it was ‘just there’ when called for, sounding effortless, not seeming to come from a source point, but filling the room seamlessly. The mid-range was impressively lifelike. The tonal quality of voices was right on the money. The upper range was crisp and precise, bright yet soft. Throughout the frequency range, low, mid and upper, the speakers seemed to blend seamlessly. Accuracy and fidelity were revealing. I was lost in the music.“
To me... the most important thing of all in this hobby is to discover your own musical taste first, before considering any equipments... IMO... If it's classical... The Apogee is best. If it's classic jazz... Wilson will do best. If it's voice... Try Tannoy. If it's rock, rap, hip hop... Go for 8 ohms speakers.
I disagree with Patpong! A well designed and engineered speaker should play ALL types of music with equal aplomb. GMA designs their speakers to play well with all types of music and from what I've read so does Zu Cable.
The Vandersteen 5a's owned by a friend. They're the only speakers I've heard with bass so clean it could be described as "transparent." Plus the mids and highs are detailed, conveying realistic timbres. They're very slightly lacking in dynamic response, but this is a minor quibble.
I have to agree with the Linkwitz Orion's. I, like many of us, have owned many speakers. From Ohms, to Maggies to Planers to high-end dynamic's etc. etc.. My jos allows me to travel extensively so there are also a lot of speakers I have auditioned. The Orion is the finest speaker I have owned or heard. They have shattered many audio myths that I thought were truths. The fact that Mr. Linkwitz, the HP scientist, that has also had a life long passion for audio has made them available so inexpensively to anyone who has the ability to build them themself (or you can have built for you, so inexpensively says volumes about the man. His audio expertise is beyond reproach unlike some other so called experts in the field IMO. If you love music you owe it to yourself to do a google search on them. Educate yourself and try and hear them if you can. It could very well be the best time and money you have spent in this wonderful passionate hobby of ours.
Converging Quad Oris 150 horn array with giant upsized decware imps and t900a tweeter.But Iam working on something better. Pic http://steinman.mesls.org/stereo/J%20Kalinoski%20Loudspeakers%20101.jpg
You know I'm not sure. My Carver amazings (2200.00 new in 94) are definitely not the best speaker now or ever. But I have not heard anything else under say 10K or so that I think blows them out of the water. I listened extensively to maggie 3.6 and I liked some things better but in many ways I liked my Carvers. I have also listened to Avalon, Wilson, Mcintosh (all very pricey!) and Analysis Audio (look like Apogee rip off) and they just don't justify the difference in dough....
I just installed New Peerless 10" very massive woofers to replace the carver orig.and had the xover done with new caps etc. by parts connexion and now they are even more amazing.(pun) But, I'm also buying Quad 989's because I think that they may do it for me. who knows? The mind of an addict is not very predictable
Blue Ridge Sound Engineering HR-1. Hands down the most accurate, most musical speaker I have ever heard anywhwere, at any price! And they're not expensive! www.blueridgesoundeng.com Ken
Macrojack, your zealousness and staunch defense of the Zu boys/speakers, though a bit "out there" has been dead on. How come you're now selling the Zu Definition Pros? What gives with that? warren :)
"I have received numerous emails from people who can't quite believe I am selling my speakers. I am not selling my own pair. I am a "Listening Post" for Zu and I believe I am the only one in the United States demonstrating this model."
I just bought a used pair of ATC SCM150ASL's after hearing the same at Telarc (from a personal demo by Michael Bishop, nontheless). Hopefully I'll add them to this thread.
I also have a pair of Ridge Street Sasons coming for my other room.....I wonder which will make this list (both have been previously mentioned ). I love choices.
Seas Excel Thors used to be the very best I've ever heard. Now its the Tyler Linbrook Signature System. I've heard almost, well not true, about half the commercail brands.... every major speaker starting in the 1970's. None comes close to the LSS experience. Zero fatigue factor. That quality alone puts the LSS at the very pinnacle of my speaker auditions. As I hear it, there are Tylers.... then everyone else.
GENESIS 200. The holy grail of speakers! Impressive height and weight enclosed in top of the line rosewood driven by a fantastic 1500 watt amp these speaker are incredible to listen to and look at.
Shadorne, No, I'm not in the music biz, but was lucky enough to get the Telarc tour and some great advise from some in the biz. I'm hoping that the used 150a's are somewhat up to spec (SL's, amps still good, etc.) but realize they don't have the newest tweeters in them. BIlly Woodman, ATC pres, says some prefer the Vifa anyway. And he recommends I recap the amps if they sound a bit tired. We'll see soon. Thanks, Ted
P.S. I heard the Genesis 200's years ago and they were quite incredible.
Yes, in their larger sound room (the one with 5 150a's) they soffit mounted them all around, and had considerable RPG treatment, as well. However, in soundroom 2 (mostly used for editing) the 150's and 50's were open air and sounded great regardless. I was quite interested in this setup as it will likely approximate my ultimate home setup, with my room being larger, but not equidistant.
I'll ping you on the tweeter issue, but am doing nothing until I live with these for awhile.
Wait till you hear the custom amp packs crossovers were making for the (right now independently) for the ATC line. Still trying to get Billy to sign on but it will have to wait till he visits for the AES show this fall. Hopefully he can squeeze in a demo.
I removed the amp packs from my Anniversary 50's and used a Lake Contour for the crossover and these new Tomba! amplifiers, which we designed specifically for the 50's.
Uber ATC, improved bass and just overall a more tangible more involving (just easier on the ear) so I could play them about 6db louder and the sound it was remarkable how the bass just stayed strong and controlled the speaker never leaned out, the room acoustics eventually did :). Key is the amps sacrifice zero accuracy and timbre shift, better phase for ridiculous imaging and the above improvements took nothing away from other areas of the sound. It just added a little that made the ATC's simply more lifelike that they are already.
I'd love to talk about modding my ATC's. Assuming my amp packs are a bit tired I'd certainly love to understand what could be done vs. recapping the existing arrangement. Always open to new niche solutions. Would you offer them regardless of what Billy does corporate-wise?
I agree,the most important component are speakers.Spend as much as you can afford on them.I would better than 50% of your budget.Even if you don't have systems list buy the speakers first then add to them over time.You will often get better bargains on electronics than speakers.To answer the question of best speaker I ever heard would be the VMPS Towers In a little Audio shop in NJ.Brian Cheney had been there earlier to do some mods,soundcoating was one I think.Anyway my taste in music is Big Bands & Jazz.Man, those speakers blew me away.At the time I had Snell's A2,then Acoustat's 2+2 now NHT's 2.4 suround a/v All very good but don't have that visceral impact of the VMPS
Speakers are the most important. But then which amp will you use with incredible/awesome/"knock-out"/fantastic/UNREAL speakers? Why hook up an amp that compromises these unreal speakers? duh? Next lets say you get the most awesome/incredible speakera nd also a incredible/unreal/dynomite amp, why compromise witha soso/average/bland sounding cdp? duh? Point is, all 3 are 'equally" important BUT first start with speakers, then work from there. Speakers first, then amp, then cdp. In that order. Now as to the question, most awesome sysyrem you heard. I know I answered with my system as the clear winner. BUT that has now since changed. I haerd a speaker system that uped mine by some added bass. It was the Tyler LSS(Linbrook Sig Sys). However I used my JOR and Cayin 17 as associated. So the only cahnge in my above answer was the spaeker upgrade A speaker i hope to own one day next yr. Paul Baton Rouge
The best I have ever heard period are the MBL 111e's, have not heard the 101e's ,however, I am sure they are better. The 111e's I heard were in a awesome room, with big dollar every thing. The best "real world speakers" are ATC's Anniversary 50's. I formed these recent opinions over the last two weeks in which I dragged every piece of equipment and cable to listen to over 10 high end speakers. My OPINIONS of all ten speakers are on MY SYSTEM page, if any one cares.
And last, but not the least, and probably the most fun events ever (granted not the last word in refinement and resolution) were to hear a friend's Cerwin.-Vega DC1515's playing from his varanda onto an open field at a distance of 20m with the sum total of 1600w of Rms power from four mono amps driving them. Totally mind blowing if you can appreciate the sensation of a live rock concert in your backyard!
My favorite so far is a pair of Tannoy's Dual Concentric speakers, a DIY project. This comprises some hefty 15" DC unit, a Tannoy supertweeter and some extensive outboard filters in a huge cabinet. Sound is absoluty amazing, closest thing to a live concert I ever encounterd. One major drawback: they aren't mine.....
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