Brent Jesse is a great source of tubes as is Andy Bouman of Vintage Tube Services. Great quality and selection with expert matching of tubes along with an unending knowledge of tubes, tube amps and vintage gear. He even has his own vintage audio gear museum! Can't go wrong with either guy.
Tekton Double Impacts
Anybody out there heard these??
I have dedicated audio room 14.5x20.5x9 ft. Currently have Marantz Reference CD/Intergrated paired to Magnepan 1.7's with REL T-7 subs. For the vast majority of music I love this system. The only nit pick is that it is lacking/limited in covering say below 35 hz or so. For the first time actually buzzed the panel with an organ sacd. Bummer. Thought of upgrading subs to rythmicks but then I will need to high pass the 1.7's. Really don't want to deal with that approach.
Enter the Double Impacts. Many interesting things here. Would certainly have a different set of strengths here. Dynamics, claimed bottom octave coverage in one package, suspect a good match to current electronics.
I've read all the threads here so we do not need to rehash that. Just wondering if others out there have FIRST HAND experience with these or other Tekton speakers
Thanks.
I have dedicated audio room 14.5x20.5x9 ft. Currently have Marantz Reference CD/Intergrated paired to Magnepan 1.7's with REL T-7 subs. For the vast majority of music I love this system. The only nit pick is that it is lacking/limited in covering say below 35 hz or so. For the first time actually buzzed the panel with an organ sacd. Bummer. Thought of upgrading subs to rythmicks but then I will need to high pass the 1.7's. Really don't want to deal with that approach.
Enter the Double Impacts. Many interesting things here. Would certainly have a different set of strengths here. Dynamics, claimed bottom octave coverage in one package, suspect a good match to current electronics.
I've read all the threads here so we do not need to rehash that. Just wondering if others out there have FIRST HAND experience with these or other Tekton speakers
Thanks.
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Regarding the spikes I didn't find them till a couple weeks later when I was ripping the boxes up to go in the trash. They are not obvious at all! In the meantime I had gotten some 1/4-20 bolts which I cut the heads off and sharpened as a temp solution. Could have saved me a burned finger if I had found them sooner🙄 |
Thanks guys! Does anyone know of a good source for those tubes? I previously looked in one endcap for the spikes but it could have been a top endcap. I'll go down in a bit and check the other endcaps. And yes, I did order the grills but I think they are shipped separate as they definitely weren't in the box and I remember someone else mentioning it took a while to get the grills after they received the speakers. That's when I thought the spikes would arrive too. I'm really getting excited about audio again, I thought I was done with it because of the skyrocketing prices of good gear. It's nice to hear there are still some great finds for a decent price. I want to thank Teajay and everyone else for sharing these little "secrets". |
@cmss2000: Congratulations on your purchase! Keep us posted on your impressions and experience. I nearly missed the spikes as well. I did order a pair of grills but I think they are vaporware.... : ) @ everyone -- it's looking like the DIs are not the bargain we say they are. Everyone is on the upgrade or add warpath... myself included.... Said in jest of course! |
Congrats cmss2000, As mac48025 mentioned the spikes are to be found in one of end caps and you really don't know what your speakers can sound like with out them. If you did not special order your pair with grills, there are none to find. Concerning the Micro-ZOTL the one I purchased was the review demo with the stock tubes. It sounded very good with stock tubes, but nothing like the level of performance after rolling in a pair of Sylviana NOS Gold Brand 12AT7's and the TungSol NOS Black Glass oval plate 6SN7's. |
Cmss2000, The spikes are in one of the styrofoam end caps......they're easy to miss and the speakers will sound much better with those threaded holes filled. Congrats on your new speakers, you're in for a treat. I'm going to go with LTA MZ2-S also. Terry mentioned using the 1940's Tungsol black oval plate 6SN7's. That's what I'm going to go with also. A hot set up indeed.....the 1 watt still boggles my mind though! |
Hi Guys! It was teajay's review and the value of the DI's that made me order a pair. I have to laugh about the WAF comments though. I was met with "these speakers look so much better", no doubt because they are replacing 6 ft high Dunlavys. I haven't received the spikes or the grills yet. Are stock spikes included? I'm really enjoying the speakers, but want to get the most out of them, so I'm considering ordering the MZ2 and hoping I can run it without the amp as that not only saves money but sounds like the hot setup. Teajay, what configuration (which MZ2 and which tubes) is recommended when ordering the MZ2? I'd like to get it right from the start. Thanks for a great thread! |
I have been reading this thread with interest in the Double Impacts and then I read someone is powering them with the one watt MZ2 so Just for the heck of it, I hooked up my older Micro ZOTL2 amp and MZ2-S as preamp together to see what kind of SPL I could get with my 93db sensitive Decware Radial speakers in my living room. I'm playing at levels as loud as I want surprisingly without clipping. The sound is as good as I've ever heard these speakers sound. A small notch above the Berning ZH230 I use. It is no surprise this little 1 watt amp will drive the Tekton's. |
As I said earlier, while I loved my Magnepan 1.7's, I would not go back to them after owning the DI's. The DI's just have too many strengths, too much balance. I feel that I actually lost detail (perhaps from rear wave interference) with the 1.7's. Things were less precise with the soundstage. As teajay said you do get a larger than life image which is fun but not always accurate. When you look at voicing, sounstaging , dynamics, frequency response, quality of bass, this is a terribly hard speaker to beat. So while I enjoy open baffle/planar approaches, I have no urge to back in that direction. |
I was considering either the OB Sigma or the Pendragons but when I called Eric to place an order he asked if I'd be interested in a new speaker that was still just a twinkle in his eye at that time......the Double Impacts. While I knew nothing about them, being the first to get them, I didn't have any apprehension at all as I totally trusted Eric's ability. I never expected anything as good as the DI's though! I can't imagine how much one would have to spend to do better. Now, if the LTA MZ2-S is equally as good ( and I'm sure it is) I'll be in audio heaven. |
Hi teajay, I have read it. And Eric had terrific pricing on them as part of his "royally ticked off" campaign! : ) After discussing it over the phone with him, he steered me right towards the Double Impacts. I still see them as an option for surround duty, if I ever get to my HT needs. Right now, I'm considering other component upgrades to squeeze the most out of the DIs..... |
Hey david_ten, If you have not read my review on HTR on Tekton's very innovative Sigma OB speaker, which is an absolutely wonderful sounding speaker, and I gave a PRODUCT OF A YEAR AWARD, to get the details how Eric figured out how to avoid any electrical EQ to get the bass frequencies right. I love planar speakers sound-staging except for how they sometimes enlarge individual images and lack focus in location on the sound-stage and how OB designs can create a planar like sound-stage without these difficulties. However, I believe the DI's do everything an OB design can do plus many more virtues that are talked about on this thread. |
@corelli: I did a three hour store audition of the Devore O 93/96s driven by Line Magnetic components in NYC. The pairing was excellent and I was very impressed with the Line Magnetics performance and price points. I unfortunately don't remember the component numbers, but the integrated as well as separates were in the chain. @mikirob : Interesting! I thought I was going to move ahead with the Devore O/96s or the Harbeth HL5+ or M 40.2. Was holding off until the house was completed and I knew for sure which room was going to serve as our audio/media room, specifically which Harbeth would be best in it. And then, along came the Double Impacts. The third option / route was going with a Spatial Audio Open Baffle. |
Hi Corelli, I haven't heard the Line Magnetic SETs but I've gotten enough feedback from people I trust that the 518 ia, 219ia and 508ia are really quite special amplifiers. Yes I am very content with my system (going on 8 years). I was after a very natural sound and a system that brings out the sol and emotion of music. I never pursued "perfect" sound, that leads to frustration IMO. Charles |
Charles, Funny you mention Line Magnetics. This was another amp I was reading about--the 518 integrated to be specific. Thought it might be a good match for the DI's. Plus in the winter it could function as a space heater (: Have you ever listened to this amp? Glad you are so happy with your system. "Upgradeitis" can be an expensive affliction that never gets us to an endpoint. Sounds like you knew what you were after and achieved that goal. |
Hi Joe, I find this thread very interesting for the same reason. What apparently are truly high performing audio products at honestly obtainable cost with seemingly little if any compromise. It appears that the Tekton DI with the LTA ZOTL electronics or say a Line Magnetic SET amplifier will yield serious high end sound quality far below Uber price levels. That is noteworthy in my opinion. I’d eagerly move in this direction if I weren’t so thrilled with my present audio system. Charles |
Hi Charles, Everything is good, thanks! Hope all is well. Yes, I am still using the Hornings and Franks and the pairing is wonderful. Real music makers. Sorry for going off topic. The LTA and DD sound like great bargains and really good performers. It's nice to see companies where you can still get great sound for not so much money. Audio prices have been getting crazy in the last several years. I applaud these companies for keeping prices reasonable for people with tighter budgets. Joe |
Hey snopro, I too have had virtually all the highly regarded 67SN7's in my collection, including the Sylvania 1950's bad boys, and for my taste I still greatly prefer the TungSol 1940's tube. I fine them to the most natural/real sounding in their tone and unbelievably 3D in their imaging with an overall liquidity from top to bottom. Yes, very expensive these days, but not over rated in my opinion. |
Almarg, As always thank you for the stellar explanations regarding the microZOTl driving the DI. This thread has really made me re-think what is possible. I've been a fanboy of Eric Alexander for some time now and still own the Tekton original Lore as well as Micro Lore which are very good speakers. Not long ago I also acquired my brother's DeVore 0/96 and Harbeth HL5's. Both are phenomenal speakers in their own right; but I think I must try the DI with the MicroZotl stuff. Best, mikirob |
Teajay, The tungsol round plates are very nice tubes, but aren't the only game in town. I have a big collection of 6sn7's. IMS, I think the 1952 Sylvania bad boys are better. They have a bottom getter and 3 holes in their plates. Give them a try, if you can find them. Big bass, dynamics, and beautiful tone. In my preamp they are much better maybe not in the LTA, but worth a try. The tungsols are overrated and overpriced imho. Joe |
david_ten If you use the studded glider directly to the speaker, agree with mac at 1.5". If you use the outriggers, the steel is 1/4" and you would need another 1/4" for a brass acorn nut/washer on the top of the outrigger and then another 1/4" to adjust for uneven flooring, then the jam nut---so you will need the 1" 1/4-20 glider. Also, I opted for the knobs from soundocity--they are only $3 each and look nicer than the acorn nut. I attached the outriggers with hexhead SS bolts/washers, 1 1/4 length 1/4-20. Either way ought to work well. I would keep the speakers vertical. Not a fan of self leveling footers. Way to much wobble for me. I'm a believer in a solid/stable footing for speakers to avoid "micro wobble" induced by the woofers which in my mind might slightly add some element of haze. But I'll be the first to admit I have not spent hours, days, or weeks comparing all the many options out there. |
Al, youre a marvel. Thanks yet again for explaining something I couldn't previously conceive in a manner that I understand. Charles, teajay mentioned he is using the holy grail of 6sn7 tubes. Maybe that accounts for him being able to drive the microZOTL to its extreme without any harsh results? Just a thought. David, I'm using the 1/4/20 giant gliders with 1 1/2 studs for greater lift off the carpeting and more distance for leveling as my basement floor isnt real level. No issues with the threaded studs entering the speaker cabinet. |
@mac48025 ; @klh007 ; @corelli If I go with the Herbies Audio 'Giant Threaded Stud Glider' product, do you recommend going 1/4" 20 in the 1/2 inch length so that the sliders are flush with the speaker base, or would you go with a slightly longer length to offer up some advantages...like elevation and angling, etc.? I haven't looked underneath the speakers.... @mac480245: you mention that the bass leaks from the screw holes... if they are open ended I would not want to damage anything with a long screw. If I do a hybrid approach and use the Soundcity Outrigger that @corelli recommends, do you feel that placing Herbies Giant Fat Gliders (not the screw in type) under the Soundcity auto leveling / rubber feet versions would offer further benefits in isolation / sound quality? This approach (I think) allows me to easily move the speakers because of the gliders and provide (I think) the additional stability outriggers might bring vs going with the Herbie Threaded Gliders alone. Thoughts? Thanks! |
Hi Al, Well, once you explain it that meticulously it does begin to make considerably more sense. That RF transformer is doing some serious work 😊 My amazement is the 6SN7 is used in this manner so apparently effectively. In my pre conditioned mind that tube is thought of as one of the iconic small signal tubes and not a device used to drive speakers (especially of the 4 ohm variety). Again, fascinating. Charles |
Hi Charles,
Your question is of course a logical and very valid one. After thinking about it a little, I believe I can explain how the 1 watt MicroZOTL amp can drive the DI to levels in the vicinity of 100 db at the listening position. Three things need to be considered: Output impedance, current capability, and power capability. I’ll mention first that the amp is rated, somewhat counter-intuitively for a tube amp, to be able to deliver more power into 4 ohms (1 watt) than into a higher impedance (0.5 watts into 14 ohms). And its output impedance is specified as a usefully low 2 ohms. How is that possible with a 6SN7, which like just about any small signal tube operates under relatively high voltage/low current/high impedance conditions? The key to the answer is that the ZOTL amps are not true OTLs in the traditional sense. As I know you’ll recall from discussions in other threads here, between the output tube and the output terminals of the amp is a transformer that operates at RF (not audio) frequencies, as well as some solid state switching devices. That circuit converts the high voltage/low current/high impedance condition under which the tube operates to a much lower voltage/higher current/lower impedance condition, while presumably being efficient enough to not sacrifice a significant amount of power in the process. (For a resistive load power = voltage x current, and when a transformer transforms voltage and current the product of the two cannot increase, since it is a passive device). So that takes care of output impedance and current capability. Regarding the 1 watt power capability of the amp: The speaker is rated to produce an SPL of 98.82 db at 1 meter for an input of 2.83 volts. Let’s call it 99 db. 2.83 volts into 4 ohms corresponds to 2 watts. So the 99 db becomes 96 db for a 1 watt input. Assuming that falls off with increasing distance at a rate of 6 db per doubling of distance, which is typical for non-planar speakers, at a typical listening distance of say 10 or 12 feet the 96 db would be reduced to about 86 db. If both of the speakers that are present are supplied with 1 watt, the overall acoustic power that is radiated into the room would increase by 3 db, relative to the output of a single speaker, but the increase would approach 6 db if the listener is approximately centered. That brings us to 92 db. “Room gain,” i.e., the effects of reflected energy in the room, would conceivably add something like 3 db or so. That brings us to 95 db. And probably another few db would be added as a result of some combination of dynamic headroom, conservatism in the 1 watt spec, and a small amount of clipping that would not be perceivable as such. Voila! Best regards, -- Al |
Charles1dad, if I were an EE maybe I could scratch the surface of explaining David Bernings designs but they are very complicated. These amps are unlike any other tube amp I have ever owned and they also seem more powerful than conventional tube amps. David Berning's ingenus impedance conversion tech is behind this. http://davidberning.com/technology |
Folks I’m still baffled as to how an octal small tube such as the 6SN7 has the capacity to successfully manage a legitimate full range speaker. How is this tube able to provide sufficient current for a 4 ohm impedance load? I believe the listening impressions of Teajay and Allan but this outcome is highly outside expectations given known specifications of both products. Fascinating results in my opinion. I’ve been a long time advocate for high quality lower power amplifiers ( particularly DHT SET types) and higher sensitivity and easy load efficient speakers. But! I must admit to being surprised by this unique scenario. Charles |
Hi corelli, I have never heard that specific Audio Note amplifier. I have experienced both AN of England and Japan very expensive amplifiers and really don't think they are worth the $ compared to both Concert Fidelity and LTA pre-amps and amplifiers. The legendary Kondo was some what of a let down for me when I finally got to hear one. |
My dear friend and AUDIOGON member Allan, he was the one who hosted the last Chicago Audiophile Society meeting at his house to show case his pair of DI's, was patiently shocked at what he heard tonight with the setup we have been discussing recently. He brought over Upscale Audio's Speaker Setup CD that has a wide range of music styles, all recorded at a reference level. He listened to the entire CD and then grinned/smiled and clapped over what he heard. He was still shaking his head over, "how could one Watt" deliver the volume levels and ass-kick overall dynamics/punch and room shaking powerful bass that he had heard and felt on many of the cuts off this CD. He also believed it was the best sound-staging and placement he had ever heard. Allan, said, " nobody is going to believe us for two reasons: 1) one watt cannot do this. 2) to inexpensive, both the ZOTL and the DI's don't cost enough for the high brows in our hobby." You guys get it, and we can reap the joy of beautiful music without depleting our $ resources. |
david_ten You can purchase the outriggers alone for a mere $20 each. They have a 1/4-20 thread as I recall so you can custom attach many options. I remember 35 or so years ago attaching casters to my early edition Magneplaners. Worked great!! Up against the wall when not in use and easily rolled out on hardwood floors for a listen. Safety for you little one trumps everything else. Speaker position trumps speaker/floor interface (imho). I would go with whatever gives you the best combination of easy mobility and stability (i.e., no wobble) |
teajay, you keep danglin' that Micro-ZOTL bait in front of me. What an affordable way to experience LTA for so much of the music I enjoy. Then I can leave the more bombastic moments to my Marantz amp. After all, no amp can do it all, and isn't variety the spice of life? Speaking of variety, teajay, have you ever listened to the Audio Note EL34i C-core kit?? There's a part of me that longs for a whiff of solder. (fond memories of dynakits, hafler gear, etc. |
This is a very intriguing discussion. Mac says his 24 watt Decware falls a bit short reproducing certain live recordings and believes more amp power would be beneficial. Teajay achieves 100 db SPL (That’s cleanly delivered) from a (signal tube not your typical output power tube) 6SN7 !!! This occurring in his large listening room. What is going on ? I don’t doubt teajay’s findings but this is a quite unusual situation. Can a stout power supply account for "all" of these findings? Charles |
Color me shocked......but I'm ordering a MZ2-S soon along with some NOS Tungsol Black Oval Plate 6SN7 tubes. Over 100 db? That's much louder than I need. Can you imagine a reference level pre/amp/speaker system for less than $6K total? Hopefully my PS Audio Perfectwave transport and DAC will suffice as reasonable good to get the most from the micro ZOTL/DI combo. Thanks again for sharing teajay, this is exciting! |
