OK, let’s see, who’s nastier? My vote goes to bdp24. Second place goes to theaudiotweak. Sorry guys. There can be only one winner. Sorry, Tom, at least you tried. Costco_emoji would have had a shot but he keeps deleting his posts.
Talk but not walk?
Hi Guys
This isn't meant to start a fight, but it is important to on lookers. As a qualifier, I have my own audio forum where we report on audio issues as we empirically test them. It helps us short cut on theories and developing methods of listening. We have a wide range of systems and they are all over the world adding their experiences to the mix. Some are engineers, some are artist and others are audiophiles both new and old. One question I am almost always asked while I am visiting other forums, from some of my members and also members of the forum I am visiting is, why do so many HEA hobbyist talk theory without any, or very limited, empirical testing or experience?
I have been around empirical testing labs since I was a kid, and one thing that is certain is, you can always tell if someone is talking without walking. Right now on this forum there are easily 20 threads going on where folks are talking theory and there is absolutely no doubt to any of us who have actually done the testing needed, that the guy talking has never done the actual empirical testing themselves. I've seen this happen with HEA reviewers and designers and a ton of hobbyist. My question is this, why?
You would think that this hobby would be about listening and experience, so why are there so many myths created and why, in this hobby in particular, do people claim they know something without ever experimenting or being part of a team of empirical science folks. It's not that hard to setup a real empirical testing ground, so why don't we see this happen?
I'm not asking for peoples credentials, and I'm not asking to be trolled, I'm simply asking why talk and not walk? In many ways HEA is on pause while the rest of audio innovation is moving forward. I'm also not asking you guys to defend HEA, we've all heard it been there done it. What I'm asking is a very simple question in a hobby that is suppose to be based on "doing", why fake it?
thanks, be polite
Michael Green
www.michaelgreenaudio.net
2,164 responses Add your response
@theaudiotweak, how can you say such a thing? Why, he’s just posting here to share his enthusiasm for the "hobby". It’s all about having fun!!! Are you suggesting he’s disingenuous? Get on board, brother---disassemble your electronics and stick little pieces of wood and other doohickeys under all the parts. Those engineers who designed them don’t know anything about how to really achieve good sound, ’cause they don’t do "the walk". Guys like Nelson Pass are so passe’, with their stuffy ’ol engineering education and knowledge. Poor fools, they don’t know HEA is dead. But don’t despair; there is a new Messiah on the scene, ready to lead us all to the promised land. Just drink the kool-aid, and pass the collection plate. Hey, even Messiah's gotta eat. |
So this guy shows up here in March of 2018 and begins his dialing for dollars and self promotion tour..No other threads or answers given except for own self promotion. Has he ever been a benefit to Audiogon in terms of adding money to their pockets ? It appears he has ridden this gravy train for free for these many months. Another thing...how does he hold our negative posts hostage and has them deleted when he adds nothing to the pockets of Audiogon...How could and how does that happen. Zero benefit to Audiogon the company and zero benefit to any of its members. Its all about himself. Tom |
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Hi Glupson Lol, you cracked me up with the swelling thing a little. I pictured all the guys here on the thread sitting outside in the rain listening and discussing the topic. If you have time and a translation available to you, look at some of the audiophile forums from the far east. Metal and rubber corrosion is a major problem with audio products there. An audio system really isn’t that far away from musical instruments as far as what affects what. Stereos go in and out of tune just like any other music producing item that carries an audio signal. I don’t look at the swelling of any instrument as a thing you want much of. As you mentioned early all of us can hear the cycles of listening change throughout the day. Some of this is us, some the system and some the continuum of time itself. How fast or slow something goes out of tune is relevant to the situation and the materials working, or not working, together as a whole. The other thing sort of funny on this and other threads is how the posters dramatize things to prove points that really have nothing to do with listening to music at all. Like your bomb in the backyard thing or folks saying things with spins here to make their points, when all of this really comes down to common sense stuff. One that I kind of brought up earlier was this whole squeeze parts into a metal box and claim it will out perform something not in a box. These are basic designing flaws in the HEA paradigm that will sooner or latter catch up with the over build guys and kick them in the can big time, already been happening for about 15 years now even more. You know there are a lot of listeners out there who have felt ripped off by HEA after they experience simpler and more thought out designs. This is one of the reasons why you don’t see me getting upset on here. I’ve already done what they have yet to do, and as more people do and leave the HEA paradigm, then their friends in time follow suit and before you know it a whole gang of listeners leave the community of HEA brands. I’ve got a system combo that will be going over to Malaysia soon that is a complete Tunable audio system. It includes everything. All you do is set it up and Tune it in. It cost less than one HEA component and blows the doors off of every big HEA system we have brought in in the last 4 years or beta tested at other places. And here’s the cool part, you can set this system up, put on a recording, if you like it great, if not, make a couple simple adjustments (similar to tuning a guitar) and your all set. This is the direction of the serious listener. Same thing with all these guys getting their room correction products. The hobby is actually getting sophisticated and before long in room listening will be bigger then it ever was. Check out the speakers I have coming out in 2019. They’re RoomTune Speakers. I have two markets I’m focused on. One is the combo setup I’m talking about and the other is the RoomTune system. The RoomTune system is a lifestyle speaker system that uses the room as the speaker. It’s a speaker system designed to work with Digital Room Correction systems. I know lol the self promotion police will be up to flame me shortly lol! While they’re doing that listen to what I’m really saying. HEA has reached their crossroads, and it’s a good thing. We live in a different world than we did 25 years ago. Old school HEA is wonderful, especially 1995 and back. Then there’s the discrete HEA era 1995-2015. The discrete audio era lost ground, but during that time audio innovation overall advanced and advanced to the point where a room correction system now usually out performs your big buck systems. It doesn’t out perform the tuning purist but makes slaughter of these "One Fixed Sound" systems. Right now your seeing folks trying to correct their HEA systems with these processors, with fairly good results for the most part. For these systems though you still have some room and component problems, basically because many of the speaker designs out there are built to fight the room not work with it. That’s going to change and probably fairly soon and to a much bigger market. Michael Green |
Michael Green, Now I am closer to some attempt at acceptance of brass being more responsive to humidity than wood, but not by much. I can imagine metal being charged and that having some impact. Not that I completely understand, but that may be due to my limitations and I can see that someone could make a case for it. However, metal (in our case brass) swelling and changing more than wood due to humidity is a little bit harder to grasp after a few decades of non-scientific experience with both. I mean, I have not done any experiment, controlled or not controlled, to measure outcomes of humidity exposure. Still, I do have anecdotal evidence to the contrary. I have had old wood windows swell after an evening shower enough to be much harder to open. I have never experienced anything similar with my cars, bicycles (that sucked every time, but because of a wet seat and slippery roads), or anything else made of metal I left in the rain or outside on a humid day. Cars always seemed to retain their size. Of course, I did not measure them so I cannot claim I am 100% sure, but still. I will leave it at that. Even I agree that my system sounds different throughout the day. I do not give it much thought of why it is so, but it is so to my ears and I live with it. I, kind of, assign it to reaching the optimal temperature for whatever it is doing. It sounds better after a while, but I can tolerate it from the beginning. I doubt many people would contest the claim that transformers placed in the box with other electronic parts can have some (presumably negative) effect on the function of those parts and, consequently, the final sound. The real reason they are placed in there is a very simple compromise. Sellers would lose 80% (I am making that number up, but I think it may be close to correct) of customers if they did not offer a cosmetically acceptable solution. Most of the people, even those who are willing to shell out many thousands of dollars for an amplifier, do not prefer to have too many wires and boxes laying around. For some, it is plain impossible due to children, pets, husbands, wives, design of the room, whatever. Why that simple fact always gets ignored, not only by you, is beyond me. From what I understand, manufacturers try to compromise by isolating transformers as much as they can. It may not be perfect, though. I am sure you know much more about that than I ever will. |
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Hi Glupson Thanks for your recent questions. "I get the temperature part, but am surprised by humidity statement. How can brass be more affected by humidity than wood?" I think that the audio industry (hobbyist included) would do themselves a favor taking a course that explains and has lab work on the Fundamental Forces. It’s a lot easier to learn the long versions of this stuff rather than discussing the short versions on audio forums when so many are trying to one up each other. I also think I shouldn’t have pushed the wrong button when I went to post my longer answer a few moments ago LOL Oh well, my post was about the history of my discoveries of when I started to hear problems with the Audiopoint and what my process was in my own evolution of designing the cone and other important tools. I can get back to that version anytime but here’s a shorter one, sorry. About a year into my distributing of the Audiopoint is when I first started to be bugged by certain problems. Once I started hearing it I began to think Yikes, this isn’t good but no one was complaining so the panic didn’t set in (yet). I’m like that with my audio. Once I hear it, and hear it repeated, it becomes that thorn in my listening side. This is what brought me to ditching HEA chassis designs and a host of audio product designs. HEA products for the most part are way over built and very cramped. Setting a big transformer down inside of a metal box is crazy, yet a whole segment of this industry did it. When you set that big field creator down inside of a box of chargeable parts your making a landmine of problems. While dealing with what I was hearing with the Audiopoint I found a few interesting facts. One the cone is directional, two the cone is a conduit for fields and three the cone was very reactive to environment conditions. Later my friends from Conn and King instruments were like Duh where have you been lol. "I can imagine some oxidation taking place and changing properties, although I would expect that to be a relatively slow process." Glupson take your thought there a step further. Materials are what? Programable. Metals do what? Attract fields, reject fields, reflect fields, pass fields’ info and be charged by fields. Listen to your system when it is very dry, then, compare it to the sound when it’s raining outside. It’s not just the humidity but the....charge in the environment that changes. "Wood, on the other hand, swells and what not, when exposed to the water/humidity and effects I have seen so far can appear overnight, if not sooner." Same with metal. "Is there a secret in wood processing. painting, or something else, that makes wood less susceptible to humidity exposure than brass?" I don’t think it’s a matter of less or more but a matter of what happens to your sound. If you take the time and carefully listen to your system you will hear it go through four main listening cycles every day. You as an object go through these same cycles. You as an object with a brain and live body....you get what I mean. listening is a moving target not a fixed snapshot. the guys who come up and say their system always sound the same, need to take up golf or something else other than audiophile listening cause there’s not a truthful guy on the planet who has not been a part of system change, and the continuum of sound. It’s not a fixed quantity from us as humans or our systems sitting on a revolving planet in a moving system. It’s just kind of goofy trying to sort through half baked theories. Fun as it might be for some, stretching their egos to the max trying to gain a following, there’s talk and then there’s walk. And walk is motion. Michael Green |
kosst_amojan This last page of snake oilers vociferously debating the merits of their oils has felt to me like watching transvestites bicker about which one has the better fake tits. >>>>>There goes costco_emoji looking in the mirror again. Tsk, tsk Get a load of the vocabulary on that transvestite! 💃 |
bdp24, I got it. For some reason, I missed it before despite carefully looking for it twice. Well, what can I say in my defense? Nothing. I agree with your general idea, but it is from the viewpoint of "music is the reason" while I have a feeling that many people are really in it to play with their toys. The music becomes an excuse. I see it as LEGO for adults, in some way. It just happens to be with equipment that reproduces sounds, but it could be anything else. The goal is to play with it and not necessarily to play it. I think those are two different groups of owners of a little bit pricier/more sophisticated equipment. One that buys it because it simply sounds better while they play music and the other one that is in it for building, rebuilding, outsmarting other hobbyists (just look at this thread), etc. I feel that many people from the second group convinced themselves that they are in it for music, while they really enjoy the "construction" part of their activity. Look at this thread, or many others for that matter, and you will see how much time and effort people put in chasing something by trying new things. For example, I was really curious what "tuning" would encompass. I came out with a conclusion that it is a fluid process that, if you believed in it, you would have to do, more or less, every day. That would require focus on what has been achieved with certain move and then waiting for it to "settle"/"burn in"/whatever else. From what I gathered, the time would be dedicated to changing/improving sound which just seems too much work and too little play to me. I tend to turn the equipment on and leave it playing until I go to sleep. Building was just to get to the point when sound is satisfactory enough not to ask for more tinkering. It could be better, but what the heck. I have no time for listening carefully for a week to figure out if some compound placed on top of my amplifier would change the sound for better. In fact, now when I think about it, it would probably obstruct the airflow and first page of instructions says not to do so. You seem to fall into the first of my two groups. People who have a system to listen to music on. It is not a hobby, I agree. Other group is not less valid and, I think, they are just as happy with their game. It is a hobby and it happens to use same tools as yours and mine. |
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You know at this "point" I really don’t mind Bobby’s and Tom’s rants, because like the posters are "pointing" out this is great free advertising for Michael Green Audio’s Cones and Michael Green Audio as a whole and Tuning in general. Thank you readers! Also thank you Audiogon for keeping such a close eye on the posts that go over the top. I also am glad I presented this OP the way I did cause all of us can enjoy the OP play out in real time. Elizabeth said "If it’s a BATTLE.. I’ll throw in my footers, and compare them to any...Butyl rubber size 10 chemical bottle stoppers. my response Come right on in!!! I don’t think anyone should be excluded from the fun of "Walking" this hobby. You know how many footer type products are out there now? It’s staggering to think how the market grew after Steve came out with his Tip Toe. I don’t know if you guys remember, but back in the day when I came out with my RoomTune Racks, Cones, Cable Grounds and of course RoomTune there were (still are) a few very innovative companies who knew the future and developed a way to bring these products to the public. The Cable Company is one, Audio Advisor, I think later Music Direct and a few others that were key in making accessories part of the big picture. I had a client here today and after listening a while he said "what do you think about the internet?" We talked about how everything HEA changed after the internet came along, in a positive way. This thread and Audiogon forum is a great example, and I think it will only get better as time goes on. As the listener continues to progress Tuning will become the biggest part of the hobby. The words "Tuning" and "Playing" are the most important action words in all of music. To play with any accuracy you must Tune. Stereophile in one of it’s categories calls the art of acoustics "Room Tuning". They don’t call it Room Dampening or Room Diffusing they call it "Room Tuning". All of these debates and product showdowns and folks trying to flex their theory muscles is interesting but say the words "Tuning" or "Playing" your system and the world of music from a practical sense is now in business. That’s pretty darn cool. So I say again come one come all, Lets Walk! Lets do some Tuning! Michael Green http://www.michaelgreenaudio.net/ |
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It’s no. 4. Here’s the blurb from Shun Mook. Pretty sneaky, eh? Another tip-off is you almost never see a photo of the top of the Mpingo disc, only the bottom with the Chinese characters. Very sneaky. But if you can find a top view in images of Mpingo disc you can clearly see the 1/2” diameter cutout I’m talking about. I just found one on Google images. “The Mpingo Disc is invented by the Shun Mook team. It is made from a combination of Gaboon and Mpingo Ebony, *treated with a proprietary process* that gives the disc a unique property to regulate the resonance of any sonic component and its transmission. Yet this is a very simple item to use. Just place one to three disc on top of your preamp, CD transport, DA converter, turntable etc, and listen for the wonderful change in your Hi fi system. When this disc is excited by any external acoustic energy, it will resonate throughout the entire audible spectrum, thus overriding unwanted harmonic distortions and at the same enriching the musical reproduction.” |
audiopoint, I think all of us feel animosity between two of you and it is really your own business. By no means do I have an intention to side with either one of you and I have, like many here, been called a troll by a few participants just for asking short and simple questions. That is another topic that you did, I think correctly, mention in your post. However, I have to say that this thread, as meaningless as it may be, has given you and your products as much exposure as it has given to Michael Green’s. In short, it has given you an opportunity for no-cost marketing & advertising ploys and it has worked. Even more than that, it has given you an opportunity to blast "competitor’s" products while explaining why yours are better, along with smearing his character. And all of that under an umbrella of a forum dispute. You are doing it quite well and I enjoy learning about whatever you are doing and have visited your website to check it out. I doubt I am the only one. Of course, I did go to Michael Green’s website, too. So, even if mention of Michael Green as a person may give you hives and even if you consider his products painfully inferior to yours, he deserves some credit for establishing a venue for promotion. His and yours. Not much wrong with that, but just to mention it has not been one-sided. |
Michael Green, It’s a shame you decided to drag me back into this meaningless thread about walking or talking or whatever (?) based on you being the judge and jury coupled to endless consumer profiling, calling out and insulting listeners posting objections (more on that momentarily), continuations of no cost marketing & advertising ploys, storytelling that cannot be verified and profiteering too! You stated: I've always been an odd bird when it comes to money. I put fun way before money. Money is a drain on the soul and I don't buy into the American way of capitalism. When people live for money they become a slave to it, many times become selfish and dishonest. I don't live that way, come good or bad. Rubbish! Only a fool would believe that statement, especially coming from a principal business owner. Now that’s one LOL moment... Regards to your statements referring to my past along with your lack of remembrance concerning timelines:
I arrived on the Audio scene in 1985 leaving a successful career in professional sound due to injury. I toured as both FOH and Monitor sound engineer, employed by a few famous musicians, worked over a thousand shows, spent time in a few studios and unlike your ongoing stories and entitlements from the past, my background is easily proven as factual. I choose to work with ‘degreed engineers’ of all types and they are listed on our website for your review. What we are doing in sound reproduction is far different than matching and altering frequencies of wood blocks to footer systems. Been there done that a number of years back. We realized the shortcomings of variable tuning techniques. They are quite difficult to document hence we see your frustration in lacking technical explanation as requested multiple times by the readership. The sonic results from tuning techniques are in a continual state of flux - meaning the parts will never sound the same over the course of time. The tuning technique does not provide a standardized point of reference required for developing and expanding a technology. Tuning as you call it will remain forever a technique that bears functionality and will always provide a limited market for retail growth as “sales” appears to be the actual reason you are here. The tuning technique has remained the same since your beginning. The only difference we noticed is the advertising content has changed where you are now choosing various woods that are no longer “hand chosen by the Amish” as previously advertised. By the way how does anyone “voice” a 2” x 6” wall joist? And is it voiced before or after it is mechanically grounded as part of the structural framework? We’ve noticed you are the only one preaching the typical “yours is better than ours” display of words. The same individual who brought you the audio point delivered it to us after someone on your end obviously failed miserably to see the potential development from a smallish brass cone. Our science is titled Live-Vibe Technology™ and is slowly expanding beyond the borders of audio reproduction. A portion is now protected by Patent as we continue to progress in that direction. The Original Audio Points™ have evolved into Sistrum Platforms™ which you never auditioned or we would never be participating in silly talk over which cone sounds better. You are aware that the type of shelf materials and/or racking design the cone is contacting is 100% responsible for the finality in audible performance and not the cone itself - right? Maybe you don’t understand, because the mass of steel and specific geometry designed into each Sistrum Platform commands the frequency (pitch) management of the brass. In your world, the varying wood determines the sound. You should also be made aware that we no longer use the same brass chemistry that you are relating to from back in the day and we both know different brass = different results. Sistrum Platforms evolved into mechanical grounding of AC electrical panels, structural walls, floors and ceilings, newer cable chase networks and let us not forget - the Musical Instrument Industry where Star Sound continues to expand rapidly. Tuning functions because applied tension is required to alter sonic and that is defined as a technique. Your passion in believing that tuning will replace all of High End Audio is of admiration but without a core technology based on mathematics, tuning will always reside in the ‘halls of hobby’. It's not for everyone. After all, according to your many statements; HEA is already dead. Funny how your atypical opinion defies logic… we both are still “living” off a dead industry. Another topic: Hats off to you bdp24. Your post above reflecting on “hobby” is well written with meaning and deserves another read by everyone. Robert Star Sound LISTEN TO LIVE! ℠ |
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A piece of mud from the lake near the trees harvested for Mpingo discs. It achieves unity of those two with mystique of well-known healing properties. It focuses the Earth vibrations on the center of the disc from where it spreads shimmying to the music of an ancient tribe that first used the tree for sound. |
This is great. Battle of the footers. Today's card includes APs, MTDs, and now DH cones. Where's Mapleshade? Anyone see Herbie?
Myrtlewood anyone? I am still trying to figure what is inside the Mpingo disc..... 1. Nothing - we ruled that out 2. Morphic Message - a possibility but redundent with the writing on the outside 3. The word REDRUM - "Here's Johnny!"....this oft-used cliche is doubtful 4. Tiny crystal - the frontrunner imo....audiophiles love secret crystals and Dr. Kim was a professor in quantum physics....sort of like that Bybee guy that uses "crystal technology" 5. Graphene - I doubt it - this didn't really become popular until after the Mpingo was coined 6. Small rare earth magnet - a possibility, but my money is on the tiny crystal Am I getting closer? |
Whilst brass can be effective for audio apps, especially with the right ballistic shape, as fate would have it brass is a *relatively soft* material and as such does not transfer energy out of the system as rapidly as much harder materials, especially tempered and cryod high carbon steel and NASA grade ceramics. I did not create reality. Gee, I must have taken strength of materials and indeterminate structures in school. 😳 |
"Brass is also more sensitive to temperature change and humidity change." I get the temperature part, but am surprised by humidity statement. How can brass be more affected by humidity than wood? I can imagine some oxidation taking place and changing properties, although I would expect that to be a relatively slow process. Wood, on the other hand, swells and what not, when exposed to the water/humidity and effects I have seen so far can appear overnight, if not sooner. Is there a secret in wood processing. painting, or something else, that makes wood less susceptible to humidity exposure than brass? As much as I understand the conceptual idea behind it, isn’t this statement contradicting the above statement about wood and brass? "...whereas wood responds to nature because it is nature."Wouldn’t one then expect wood to respond to changes in nature (humidity of environment, in this case) more than brass? I cannot tell birch from oak when I see it in the park, and am not running for an amateur hour award when it comes to audio. I will not get a professional one, either. But I am trying to connect dots and would vote for wood over brass in anything at any time. |
Hi Inna I looked at the video, I wouldn’t be interested in that, nor would the Tunees but thanks for sharing. That sound would drive me right up the wall lol. I hope that wasn’t insulting to you or them, it’s just that their approach is 180 degrees from tuning. I get invited to listen to over built products all the time and all of them have that closed in sound. Once you go open sound it’s really hard to go back to that box. Michael Green |
Thanks for asking for further explanation Tom. The MTD comes in several different configurations. The AAB1x1 is the cone I designed as the upgrade to the AudioPoint, it's a solid cone as well but when you go to the site you can see the shape difference. As Tom pointed out and has been explained several times on the forum here, Brent (AMD) was the original designer of the cone Starsound uses and the cone I first distributed as some of you recall Michael Green's Audiopoint. Before the Audiopoint I used German Acoustic Cones. The Audiopoint I felt was a much better transfer cone for my rack designs, The ClampRak and JustaRak. These Audio Racks and the BasicRak all came with bottom cones which I designed with Brent. As I started dealing with custom products such as the cones for Klipsch and other different thread sizes and configurations I started to notice a shift in pitch that the original Audiopoint made that was becoming apparent and fatiguing in certain applications. This is when I started slowing reconfiguring the product line, moving the production to Pennsylvania for the specialty points. In fact some of the review samples of the Audiopoints were from the Pennsylvania location not AMD. In time we decided to move on from the original design and started making the MTD. Part of this decision was so I could monitor the production and refine the product. We got our own CNC and moved forward. From that moment on the MTD took on it's own life. In time I designed the Sonic Bell and MTD round tip. I never returned to the disk used for the Audiopoint to rest in. This was a flawed design from the beginning. Different woods actually became a much better step between the point and surface. I recommend when people use brass cones that they use wood on top and bottom. It's been impressive to watch all the cones and feet develop. I've also seen a lot of creative DIY cones out there. The ones that interest me the most are the brass/wood combos. The MTD Sonic Bell The Sonic Bell is another cool cone that is pretty versatile. Took me forever the get the bell the way I wanted but once I heard it I knew I landed on something special. Tom talks about me not knowing my product, but neither he nor Robert were around when the development of the Audiopoint and MTD were conceived and refined. The cones were designed 8 or so years before Robert was even on the scene. I understand all product makers need to have their feeling of pride, and in HEA their mystical story that only they understand, but these stories mean very little to me except when I am on TuneLand. You explain something here and your going to have 200 folks debating for their amateur hour award. If Tom and Robert were sincere in their approaching me it then could be worth something but I doubt that will ever happen. So be it. In the past 15 years or so I've been moving much more toward the sound of wood and the ability of wood to respond to vibratory response. Tom talks about wood going out of tune, actually brass goes out of pitch much faster than most woods. Brass is also more sensitive to temperature change and humidity change. Wood moves with conditions, metals change pitch. Lets say you have your component off over night or even playing at a lower volume. You come in and turn the volume up. Obviously the cone reacts to the vibration and heat change. It doesn't take much to change the pitch of that cone, whereas wood responds to nature because it is nature. Trees live their whole lives keeping with the timing of nature. hope this explains a little more Michael Green |
I expect you didnt write your own response as it has a style unlike anything else you may have written here. The other truth is the Michael Green Audio Point was designed by AMD and manufactured in Nebraska and not by you..so your on the coat tales..The fact that your device is hollowed makes for a less effective waveguide because its wall thickness will not support all frequencies. As I have now said many times you don't even know how your own products work even those you claim to be of your origin..not..Your agenda here is just a store front..Dialing for dollars..you do as you always have ..when you need some jack you show up with all your smoke. The only thing you mentioned that won't go out of tune in a matter of hours is the Audio Point..which is not of your making or understanding. Tom |
No Tom here's how you do that. Hey Mike I have some ideas that differ from yours (I think) and I'd like to get together and discuss them. Maybe even while we're listening to some music together and kicking back. Tom, I've been nice to you and Robert on this thread and I'm going to be nice right now and tell you, your agenda here is not working unless your agenda has been to sell MGA Cones for me. Are you not aware that your clients are placing orders with me to compare the old Audiopoint design against the new one (MGA Cones). Every time you guys come up here it's like a free ad for Michael Green Audio. Folks who remember Michael Green's Audiopoints are ordering from me again. Many didn't know where I went or heard stories from somewhere in Audiopoint land. Well that only lasts until they put the old Audiopoint up against the MGA MTD (mechanical transfer device). Hey, we love the excitement and getting to make contact with old friends, but I wonder and they have said, is it smart for Starsound to send customers to Michael Green Audio? If your cool with it thanks but Audiogon readers are different from Audiogon posters. I know you think your being effective and by all means keep it up if you want. Michael Green |
That's Ypsilon phono and Phaethon integrated playing. Thales turntable, digital recording. Lansche speakers. Well, that's youtube but you can hear some of that sound. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZ8YIow9m2s |
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Mike explain the physics of how sound is made and even make an attempt to explain why all materials sound different. Oh and why someone will need to retune each and every material that has a variable absorption rate or is not in stasis..some as often as once a day? I know that while your out to lunch when you come back it will again be out of tune. Tom |
Hi Inna "You don't want to scare your clients off with a true reference sound, you want them to have a better sound than you do." Well not really. It would be easier to show you if you and I ever tune together. My reference systems don't have chassis. They sit in tuning devices so that I am able to get directly to the audio signal. I bring in components on a regular basis but to compete with my reference there's a lot of tuning that would need to be done. Let me give an example and then I won't pick on any other products so folks don't get mad. Last year when getting ready for AXPONA we brought in several reference digital front ends to choose the one to take. After a long search we chose B......i, but it didn't even come close to the Maggie Mod, not even close. So we took a Maggie and watched the jaws drop. We have pictures of folks shaking their heads in disbelief. One magazine even described it as a car CDP cause they never saw anything like it. The Get Tuned Show Kids had a lot of fun. Since that show several folks have had me either do up a Maggie for them or I helped them tune the Magnavox they would get. It's only that one design though. The rest of them sound like cheap CDPs like one would expect. Of course the unit must be tuned to sound that way but that's what I do. Michael Green http://tuneland.forumotion.com/t332-tuning-cdp-s http://tuneland.forumotion.com/t146-tuning-the-magnavox-dvd-player |