Talk but not walk?


Hi Guys

This isn't meant to start a fight, but it is important to on lookers. As a qualifier, I have my own audio forum where we report on audio issues as we empirically test them. It helps us short cut on theories and developing methods of listening. We have a wide range of systems and they are all over the world adding their experiences to the mix. Some are engineers, some are artist and others are audiophiles both new and old. One question I am almost always asked while I am visiting other forums, from some of my members and also members of the forum I am visiting is, why do so many HEA hobbyist talk theory without any, or very limited, empirical testing or experience?

I have been around empirical testing labs since I was a kid, and one thing that is certain is, you can always tell if someone is talking without walking. Right now on this forum there are easily 20 threads going on where folks are talking theory and there is absolutely no doubt to any of us who have actually done the testing needed, that the guy talking has never done the actual empirical testing themselves. I've seen this happen with HEA reviewers and designers and a ton of hobbyist. My question is this, why?

You would think that this hobby would be about listening and experience, so why are there so many myths created and why, in this hobby in particular, do people claim they know something without ever experimenting or being part of a team of empirical science folks. It's not that hard to setup a real empirical testing ground, so why don't we see this happen?

I'm not asking for peoples credentials, and I'm not asking to be trolled, I'm simply asking why talk and not walk? In many ways HEA is on pause while the rest of audio innovation is moving forward. I'm also not asking you guys to defend HEA, we've all heard it been there done it. What I'm asking is a very simple question in a hobby that is suppose to be based on "doing", why fake it?

thanks, be polite

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net


michaelgreenaudio

Showing 21 responses by inna

Michael, why do I think that you will never fit in here ? If I may, try not be an amateur psychologist and amateur preacher. You are a pro system tuner but you don’t sound like that. State your theoretical foundation and concrete ideas clearly. People will listen, and if some don’t - so what?
As a side note. Your counter-attacks are not convincing, be more precise and ruthless. Then we will know that maybe you really are a good tuner. 
It' s neither a hassle nor a puzzle - you just tune the instrument. Michael thinks that entire universe is that. I wouldn't go that far but the entire listening room with all the components and listeners in it - certainly. Let's first tune ourselves, shall we ?
Not only do I burn in cables while listening I do it with analog source only. That's the first step in tuning. When I no longer hear a difference - the cables are fully burnt-in, for me. Human brain is still the most sophisticated device in known cosmos. It may change one day but not yet, thank whatever gods we might believe in.
I'd say it is quite a perverse way of having sex. Why don't you two stop it and do it in private if you have to ?
Now that's psychoanalysis.
Anyone compared different woods under turntables or/and tape decks ? I didn't get to it yet . There should be a difference, theoretically.
Michael, how about speakers made from Brazilian Rosewood or other rosewoods ? Speaking of speakers as instruments. Before tuning wall current and doing other interesting things, it's the speakers where it starts.
Well, that's youtube, and I was not talking about either the speakers or the room acoustics. Interestingly enough you hear closed in sound and I hear lack of real drive, we are probably both right.
Yes, Michael, one of the reasons why I asked it. The other, I heard, just heard that Brazilian Rosewood, which is no longer legal to import, by the way, gives the most sophisticated sound, generally speaking. 
One day, perhaps. Custom speakers is an audiophile dream.
That's a lot of work and takes a real good hearing. 
Sound I would want ? Paco de Lucia's custom Conde Hermanos guitar, to start with and go from there. Finest instrument I have ever heard live. I heard a few fine opera voices too but not top level.
Wood is something that is sort of alive, everything matters, including how it is dried. Maybe Michael will elaborate.
I read about some people in Swiss Alps, near the border with Italy, who make great violins. One of them at particular time of the year chooses the day and a few spruce trees to fell. He selects those trees, who knows how, but he doesn't want to be wrong.
The idea of writing a book, Michael, is I think a good one.
Michael, what are your preferences in music ? I suspect that you listen to a wide variety of different kinds but still .
And another question is about source components. Do you use Studer, Ampex, something else with master tape dubs, Simon Yorke, Walker, Technics etc. turntable ?  I mean your reference not whatever else you might have to listen to for your clients.
If someone uses inferior source one can tune until hell freezes over - nothing good will really come out of this, though there might be improvements.
I see. You don't want to scare your clients off with a true reference sound, you want them to have a better sound than you do. That will make them feel good both about themselves and their systems and you as a guide to a great sound. As a side fun, you are curious about how much sound one can extract from junky source.
But..this approach would not work with me, and I would not send you a Studer with dubs, along with cables and amp.

It's Greek company. Dimitros, chief designer, also records live music. His preamps, amps and phono stage really get high respect, so does his Phaethon integrated. Very expensive stuff.
That's Ypsilon phono and Phaethon integrated playing. Thales turntable, digital recording. Lansche speakers. Well, that's youtube but you can hear some of that sound.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZ8YIow9m2s
You are welcome. Ypsilon would work great with your Chameleons, I guess. Impossible to be sure but something is not quite right in that front end, I think the drive that comes from the source is not quite there. I also suspect that that rack is very solid and a little  stupid.
This thread is degenerating into a complete BS and is no longer worth participating in or even reading. One thing I did learn - about Michael's reference source.
You don't understand. Children have no access to expensive high level components, all they can have are some parts around house to build something by themselves for themselves. That's what Michael tries to do - to teach children how to do it and how to get the most out of it. Disregard the adult world, to hell with it.
I just had to write again because of those micro-brains having nothing to offer but primitive harassment.
Of course, big class A amp sounds better, everyone knows it including Michael. He also knows that Studer sounds better than any digital let alone his reference player. But that's not the point.
In addition, Michael does not listen to music or components while listening to music, he is on a quest to create a particular sound signature. When he finds it the system is complete and tuned.  That's what he is saying - find your own sound signature, I will help you.
And, listen to his Chameleon speakers if you have a chance, with real good amp and analog source. Let me just say that they sound different, yes very much like an instrument.
Try to see the best in people. In other words - don't be a.......