Table,cartridge,phono...where to put most of my money?


  Let me start by saying im a digital guy,to be specific a CD/SACD guy.Years ago I ventured back into vinyl only to be totally disappointed in my efforts.I wanted to hear the records I had been hauling around the country every time i relocated.I  bought a Linn LP12 and had  all the upgrades done.I never could get it sounding good,even paid to have it setup by a so called expert...Fast forward ,I tried again maybe 6 years ago.Bought a VPI super scout with a couple different phono stages(dont recall what they were)..About the same outcome,was ok but for all the fuss,time,cost I felt another unsuccessful attempt..A few weeks ago i bought at an auction a direct drive Pioneer table from the 70s for a couple hundred.It was paired with a decent cartridge.I bought a used phone amp off ebay and off and rolling i went.Its no where near my digital side across the board and i didnt expect it to be but its got me wanting more....Long story short,I have a budget of 5k/6k for everything..table,cartridge and phone amp..Yes i understand everything is important but where would you put the bulk of the budget...and what would you buy with the limited info given,,Thanks

missioncoonery
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So if I'm reading correctly  the general concensus is cartridges are priority one followed by phono amp then table?

It may depend on other factors.  I have 4 subwoofers in my room and there's a lot of bass energy..  Priority one is to have a table that won't be (or will be minimally) affected by the bass.  My Sota Sapphire is a champ in that department.  I've heard entry level cartridges sound really good on the right table.  Putting an expensive cartridge on a cheap turntable won't yield the same results.  All three matter, but if I had to prioritize, it would be table, phono stage, cartridge.  

Maybe a MoFi Ultradeck, better if bundled with the Master Tracker cartridge or better.  Great reviews.

So if I’m reading correctly the general concensus is cartridges are priority one followed by phono amp then table?

I don’t think "consensus" is word used often on these pages :) but I agree, mostly, with the caveat, repeated n times a day here....


Let’s say you have the world’s best cartridge and phono stage. If you have a cheap arm or incorrectly setup arm, the signal the needle picks up will be compromised. I think of it like a group of runners or swimmers/bikers or whatever you prefer, where the results are based on the slowest runner’s time of the group. Your weakest part will limit how good the sound could get.

Having read the OMA thread, and a lot of analog threads, my understanding is that the components between the needle and the phono stage each have a different ceiling in how good they can get. If you have a great table and arm, you can keep improving the sound with better cartridges way more than you would with better arms or plinths. (Not that I understand what an OMA turntable could do for a 100K, but maybe some day I will) So, in that sense, I’d agree with the "consensus".

OP… “So if I’m reading correctly the general concensus is cartridges are priority one followed by phono amp then table?”

 

That’s fairly safe provided the turntable and arm are not too out of class. One of my biggest upgrades was my table and arm from a ~1981ish AR to a VPI.

They need to be in the same class.. so putting a $10K cartridge on a $5K table can make amazing sound… just not putting a $10K cartridge on an inexpensive Rega. so as long as you have a decent tt and arm, then you can get a lot of mileage out of a great cartridge and phonostage.

 

 

@missioncoonery, I see nobody has directly answered your question.

Spend most of your budget on the table. Then buy a good arm and lastly the cartridge.

Why so much money on the table?  OK consider this: lets find hypothetically a vinyl record with a 10000Hz sine wave and you pop this on the turntable and give it a spin.   At 10KHz the stylus has to change direction 20000 times!  Easy Peasey.

Now play some music with drums, piano and bass and try and imagine the antics the stylus has to perform to transduce this torture test. Any play in the bearing will mean important music info lost.

Likewise with the arm, any play anywhere and more damage done. The cartridge, even a fairly modest one mounted on a great table with a great arm will now perform to it's optimum.

Perhaps apportion your budget as follows:

Table 60%,  Arm 30% and Cartridge 10%

Also do not have the table set up in or near a room corner, that's where bass hangs out. Play repetitive bass beats and walk around your room where you have the components and find a quiet spot and position the table there. Remember the table needs an isolation shelf or some means of reducing vibration.

Once you have decent sound which you now should have you can then hunt for a better cartridge knowing you will enjoy it performing as intended.

 

 

 

 

@missioncoonery I’m paraphrasing but when you claimed that vinyl didn’t live up to your expectations, then I’m wondering just how or why you weren’t happy with the sound of your vinyl rig? Did it sound muted, was it noisy, etc… As far as the Linn or the VPI, those are very fine tables with respectable tonearms. So I’m thinking the phono amp and/or the cartridge and if I were in need of buying a phono amp, I’d look for a used one. However more than anything, playing records should be fun and enjoyable, well at least for me. 
What I did was buy a used ASR Mini Basis MK II phono amp when I bought my ASR Emitter II Exclusive amplifier. The Mini Basis is their entry level phono amp however it is a very good amplifier for the money. After that, I found a Thorens TD 160 MK 1 turntable in excellent working condition and began modifying it. I decided to make it into a designated mono table so I installed an Audio Technica 33 Mono MC cartridge. I was listening to mono remastered Jazz records last night and it sounds like I would expect it to. Given that, I listen to my digital front end about 85% of the time and vinyl the other 15%. Maybe when I’m finished with my upgrades and modifications, then I’ll listen to vinyl more often but for me, digital offers better fidelity and there are about zero new classical recordings being offered in any other format than from compact discs or digital downloads. But vinyl can be fun at times so that is solely why I keep my records, turntable and phono amp.

 

I agree,I see lp playback as hopefully enjoyable but will never replace my digital......just something fun.