Whoopadeedoo - Are your Visseaux 6L6G's the ST glass or tall skinny glass? I got quite a few of the latter but I've only seen picturers of the former. I rolled them in my Sauvignon a long time ago. I used Sylvania 5932 dual plate for about 18 months. First in the Sauvignon and then in the Cabernet. It is IMO a real sleeper as regulator. I think the unique dual plate structure is what sets it apart. It gave me a rock-solid soundstage with neutral freq
response. Regulator tubes are a different lot when it comes to judging sound. Some of the regulator substitutes have an unusually high heater current and will place a larger demand on the power supply and also affect the current draw through the rectifier hence the voltage sag on the recifier and ultimately the operating point on the signal tubes. I wonder sometimes if that load is adversely affecting the expression of the music or maybe it's just getting everything in its sweet spot.
Sylvania VT-231 has excellent top-end extension, tight bass but could be lean for some tastes. Sylvania 6SN7GT 1952 tall boys are very similar to Sylvania VT-231 but with a bass boost below 100hz. RCA grey glass have maybe the best midrange of all 6SN7GT's with very nice harmonics. |
Whoopadeedoo - as a tube dealer, I am surprised you don't know that especially with military spec tubes, printing means something. And yes. There are three distinct "flavors" of Ken Rad Black Glass tubes. In vintage non-military spec tubes, parts & materials can vary tremendously. Differences in tubes are audible even by month of manufacturer in some cases.
What kind of a Supratek do you have? |
Aloha Fiddler! Thanks for the invitation - It would be great to meet you and see your show but unfortunately, we've got all our activities booked out and will be unable to get to Maui on this trip. Perhaps next time - which may be in the next few months....my wife wants to move here. |
Aloha Brian,
If you can make it over to Maui, I would love to have you in as guests to my show. The only night I am dark is Sunday nights. Any other night its two shows per night. If you can't make it this trip, let me know next time you are headed this way. |
Aloha Fiddler, that's great! So I'm not crazy after all? :) Hey.... I'm in Kauai right now... and I can almost hear how awesome your system sounds from here! |
Bwhite, you are a genius.
I tried the 6106 months ago and I think I was the first to slam the tube for having weird timing. Didn't like it at all.
I took your advice and let it burn in for three days. Wham! This tube rocks. Clearly better than the venerable 5AR4/GZ34. No contest. I didn't realize the 5AR4 was muddy until I put the 6106 in. And the 3D palpability is much increased.
Once again, thanks for the inspiration to give this tube another try. It's now my reference rectifier. |
Bwhite,
I'm surprised you can hear differences in Ken Rad 6SN7 of different prints. I've literally handled over 500 of these tubes in my lifetime and can't discern any differences. I'm also surprised you prefer their midrange to Tung Sols. I have always found the KR midrange subpar for a 6SN7.
As for my Supratek (line stage only):
6SN7: I use primarily Tung Sol round plates, although I do swap in Sylvania 6SN7Ws, Raytheon (flat plates), Sylvania VT-231 (also 52 Bad Boys), and RCA grey glass on occassion. I'd skip the CV181/ECC32 if I were you. It's one of those "midrange" only tubes with anemic bass and attenuated highs. Fact is, it was never designed for audio purposes (it's an oscillator tube).
regulator: Visseaux 6L6G or Mullard EL37. While I like what the 350B does for the midrange, they aren't my cup of tea for the rest of the audio spectrum. 6F6 tubes are too lean (and a bit edgy) for my tastes and my system. KT66 didn't float my boat either (bass was subpar, soundstage was collasped).
rectifier: Philips metal base GZ34. Defintely not muddy sounding, and far more open then the later production black base Mullards (which I agree are more lush and syrupy). I've never tried 6106/5Y3 in this position, but I'll give it a shot this weekend. I'm surprised it works well in a circuit designed for GZ34.
Disclaimer: this is all, of course, personal opinion based on my system only. For full disclosure, I should also state that I was (and still kind of am) a tube seller. |
Ray,
.
You might even want to think in terms of 300 hours for full break-in plus your opportunity to really come to understand the sound with broken in tubes.
.
I would also suggest only making one tube change at a time. This makes it a long process since you will have the break-in to go through with each set of tubes (assuming that they are new or NOS), but it is well worth it.
.
Rgds,
Larry |
I ordered a Bendix 6106,ill wait till i have a couple hundred hours on the stock tubes before installing it,and then only use it while im at work for a couple weeks to avoid the break in,,as Bwhite stated this tube does not sound good untill broken in,, |
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Brian,
.
Great posts as always.
.
Rgds,
Larry
. |
the Bendix 6106 sounds like a good tube,has anyone used it in the Chardonney? |
Sorlowski - Amandarae stated above that the Bendix does not work for the Chenin so... if I were you, I'd take his word for it. The Bendix appears to only work on the Cortese, Syrah and Chardonnay. You might ask Mick to get confirmation.
I think all Bendix tubes are "Red Bank" |
Bwhite,
Thank for interesting reply, are you sure that Bendix would work with new Chenin ? (some people claims it did not).
Any Bendix would do, or it have to be "Bendix 6106 Red Bank" ? I'm real rooky when it comes to tubes, but really like them.
I have got usual Philips MiniWatt GZ34 not metal base, is there big difference between those two ? |
I am getting my Sauvignon next week! Hooray!
On a kinda swap basis for some vinyl stuff, Mick is sending me some NOS tubes he likes to run in the Sauvignon. I'll know what they are when they get here and WILL report back.
As a real newbie when it comes to tube rolling, I see that some good trading goes on at Ebay, but what are the best sources for tubes?
Has anyone tried any JJ tubes in Sauvignon's? A friend of mine imports them to Aus.....so could be worth a try...?? |
Bwhite,
I will try to locate a CV181 in the near future. Thanks for the recommendation! |
Amandarae - that's a bummer! I wonder what changed in the Chenin power supply that makes the Bendix 6106 not work. Well.. the people with Cortese's are lucky.. you can use the Bendix 6106 and the Mullard CV181's Two great tubes which do not seem to work in the other Supratek's. Actually maybe the CV181's work in the Chenin - I know they do not work in the Syrah. |
But the Bendix does not work for the Chenin, only for the Syrah! There is a small change in the PSU according to Mick. It was mentioned to me a year ago when I ordered my unit. I think this was covered on the other thread as well. I still have the tube. I bought it new and tested NOS but it is the only rectifier that I tried (from the many recommended at the other thread) that produces a "chugging" sound no matter what source is selected or what tube combinatons are employed on the other circuits.
I hope someone can confirm my experienced as well.
|
Amazing, this is exactly what I was hoping would happen. Looks like we can all get into bidding wars on ebay now. I just stopped in to check this and will be reading more closely later, when by the way I will be listen to my new Chenin! I gotta go pick it up at the hold center a ways away cuz I got drunk and slept on a friends sofa last night, obviously missing the Fedex guy, damn.
I'll have a few more questions too, I'll get to those later. |
Sorlowski - give the Bendix a try. It is a somewhat inexpensive tube too.
The WE350B's are not exactly warm on their own but when paired with the GZ tubes, they can be...
The Early(1950's) RCA 5V4G (ST Shaped - black base) tubes are a more open sounding rectifiers. I think these are available NOS for under 35 bucks.
I think the GZ34's (as well as most other Mullard GZ tubes) are too muddy sounding. While the Metal base GZ34 is one of the best rectifier choices it pales in comparison to the Bendix.
Now.. when I first got the Bendix, I hated it. It did something strange to the pace of the music - everything seemed awkward. I think others who tried the Bendix at about that time had similar experiences. Once I burned in the Bendix though, everything came into focus. The Bendix is on the warmer side of neutral but the bass is tight, detail is there, the dimensionality increases substantially. Pace is correct. Its a great tube.
Like I said above. Burn in the Bendix. Just disconnect the power supply from the line stage, insert the Bendix and let it cook for a week or more. Every day or so, give it a listen and eventually it will outperform anything else and stop sounding weird.
Another good thing about the Bendix is that it's a slow starting tube and does not stress out the other tubes when it heats up. Some of the Mullard GZ's start fast and in some cases blow fuses on Supratek's. This stresses out the other tubes and shortens their lifespan.
The Ken Rads are good tubes - very organic -rich and warm. Changing these with Raytheon VT231 or Tung Sol Rounds will add more transparency & detail but you will lose some of the midrange magic, weight and round-ness you like with the Ken Rads.
Another possibility is the RCA 5692 red base tubes. I really wanted to like these tubes because they do many things well but for my system I felt they were too detailed and I personaly loved the warmth of the Ken Rads / sweetness of the Tung Sols. If the rest of your system is warm sounding, the 5692's might work for you. Great bass, good detail and dimensionality.. just not "luxurious" or romantic. |
Bwhite,
great comprehensive post !
Is Bendix 6106 better then Philips Miniwatt GZ34 (which I'm using) for Chenin ?
For short time I had WE350B I had impression that sound was too worm, I have warm monoblocks, so what is the best way to have a little more highs (what tubes) without sacrificing anything.
I'm using Ken Rad Black Glass VT231,Philips Miniwatt GZ34 (rest is stock). |
Thanks for the excellent info Brian! |
Thanks Aroc! Also... Ecclectique & Fiddler have added a great deal of tube info too. Actually... LOTS of people have added great tube info to that thread. It's so rich with good information.
In my Cortese, I use:
Regulator: Western Electric 350B
Rectifier: Bendix 6106
Line: Mullard CV181 / ECC32 (kinda like a 6SN7 but doesn't always work in Syrah pre's - not the very best sounding tube, but quite close. I use mostly because it is awesome looking! :) Similar sound to the Tung Sol Round Plate...
Phono: Mullard E180F - Telefunken CCa
Best 6SN7 Tubes:
Tung Sol Round Plate (6SN7GT/VT231)
Ken Rad Black Glass *note three different sound types
> Marked NAVY - these are the most open sounding
> Marked VT231 - These are the most "neutral"
> Marked 6SN7GT (no other markings) these are "dark"
* in general the Black Glass Ken Rad is the most romantic, richest sounding tube in this preamp. The three "grades" mentioned above are all within the romantic spectrum.
Raytheon VT231
Sylvania 6SN7W Metal Base
No doubt the best rectifier is a WELL BROKEN IN Bendix 6106. This rectifer sounds terrible when new - weird. I don't know how long it takes to start sounding good but I am guessing many. Be patient, it will get good. For those who had tried and gave up, keep on trying. Let that sucker bake! To break in, I disconnected my line stage from the power supply - plugged in some cheap regulator tubes and let the powersupply run.. day and night for a week or more.
The Mullard rectifiers (GZ34, GZ37, GZ33, GZ32) are popular but warmer, less impact, more muddy sounding tubes (sorry).
Various 5V4G tubes produce a broad range of neat sounds. Fun to try because most are cheap.
Regulators.
350B is the best - hands down.
6F6G is reported to be good (i've never used)
Sylvania 5932 (three types)
> Dual Black Plate - nice sounding tubes
> Gray Plate with holes
> Gray Plate no holes (super neutral sounding to the point of boredom but man.. these make the preamp sound tonally accurate)
KT66 MO Valve (GEC,Genalex,etc) Nice sweet sound.. Involving but these have to be used with a Mullard rectifier.
Tung Sol 5881 a good starter tube but you will quickly outgrow it. |
Here's mine (Chenin):
Rectifier - Mullard GZ34
Regulators - Sylvania 6F6G's
Phono = Mullard M8080 and Tele 6922 CCa
Linestage - RCA VT231 Gray Glass
I can also recommend the ff. with gusto for the linestage tubes
1. Tungsol VT231 Black Glass
2. Raytheon VT-231 Black Base
3. Sylvania 6SN7W short Bottle
4. Sylvania 6SN7GT VT-231
goodluck |
Not the conversation you wanted, but you might just focus on member bwhite's posts in the 'preamp deal of the century' thread. If I recall correctly bwhite was one of the eariler tube rollers and power cord rollers for the supratek preamps. I bet he's covered this topic in detail. And with regards to that thread, I can imagine any Supratek owner not printing out that thread and at least skimming through it (if not reading it completely!). Sure there is a wealth of knownledge about the supratek to be gained from there. You should be so fortunate.
My $0.02. |
hello Mc5baby,great thread!Im looking forward to reading responses from Supratek owners,,, |
