Seems to me your 'arm and phono stage are already at a pretty high pedigree and level of performance. I might humbly suggest you pursue a better cartridge.
My equipment is not at the level yours is and I was blown away when I replaced my Dyna 17D3 with a Shelter 901. One of the best upgrades I've ever experienced in my system. From what I've been reading the Hana Umami might be a solid option. Or one of the upper range Shelters, though there don't seem to be many reviews of them. |
sbanks, nice system. Tough questions.
Nagra is known for making excellent equipment. I have to think you would need to spend serious money to better it.
IMHO the weakest parts of your system are the tonearm and cartridge.
The tonearm is stable not neutral balance. It is going to hunt for it's balance point and VTF will change with elevation. The vertical bearing is too high increasing the warble with changes in elevation. These two issues make a big difference in the solidity of the sound and image. In your price range you should look for a Kuzma 4 Point 9. This is a killer tonearm for the money and it will fit on the Nova. The other two that will fit are the Schroder CB and the Reed 2G but they are more expensive. The Tri Planar is an excellent arm but it will not fit. It's rear end gets in the way. You could modify the plinth cover by cutting away the section behind the arm board but this would not look so hot. The cover can always be replaced. I just read about the Helius Omega arm, another small British company. It looks like a good design and it looks like it would fit and it is reasonably priced. The final suggestion would be to look for a good used SME V. It fits perfect and it really is a very good arm.
For a cartridge I would get either a Soundsmith Sussurro or Voice. They are exactly the same cartridge except the Voice has larger coils so it is higher output. The Sussurro is $2000 more expensive. I discussed this by email with Mr Ledermann asking him why. His response, "Different market." "That's all?" I replied. "Yup." I bought the Voice. The cantilever/stylus assembly is a work of art. The stylus looks very similar to the Gyger S, the quietest stylus I have ever used. Can't wait to hear it.
IMHO the very best arm is the Schroder CB. Because the tonearm wire exits via the bottom of the spindle, under the tonearm board, it installs brilliantly on a Sota. It is neutral balance, the vertical bearing is at record level, the bearings have insanely low friction and the anti skating mechanism is magnetic, no friction. I has one wire from cartridge to phono stage. There are not intervening contacts or connections. It is a $5000.00 arm. I have not yet seen one used or off demo but neither have I looked hard. I think next I would go for the SME V as it also installs nicely on the Sota. There are a lot of them on the used market. The Kuzma and Reed arms are excellent but the tonearm cables are a separate item and plug into the arms above the tonearm board. You can make it work but it won't be as slick. The Helius arm I have never used or even handled so you would be on your own there but it does look like a good design and the cable exits below.
Have you thought about subwoofers? You can turbocharge your Sound Labs that way. With music that is dynamic with a lot of bass it makes a very significant difference in overhead and distortion levels at volume. |
Thanks for the responses.
@markusthenaimnut, yeah I'd expect the Shelter 901 to be much better than a 17D3. I've owned a 501mkII in the past which was decent on a Nottingham Space Deck. But the XX2 is at a completely different level.
With the depreciation of cartridges, I'm more inclined to stick with mine until after moving up on both phono stage and tonearm. When I do, I'll be biased towards brands with trade-in options vs. the 3rd party re-tip route. I know that's a controversial subject, but IMHE, many re-tips lose some of the characteristics of the cart's original performance. Cheers,
Spencer |
Here's what I would do. Take $4k from the phone stage and $3k from the tonearm and get an Allnic H3000 used phono stage (tubed bliss) for probably 7 grand. Then save your money and do the tone arm the next time you have some disposable income.
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@mijostyn,
Yeah, the 4Point and the Schroeder CB both would be great if I could find the right deal. I've recently seen offerings for Schroeder Model 2, but I'm not quite as pumped for that model.
I'm rarely enthusiastic about newer brands and those with a smaller following. Over the years I've learned that many of those lead to big losses when reselling down the road. I'd be hesitant to pull the trigger on a Helius even if I knew it to sound great, which I don't.
The SME V is a safe choice, holds it's value and is known to be a great match, but I'm not thrilled with the lack of adjustments relative to these other great arms.
Are you of the opinion that updating the Audiomods to Series VI would yield only a modest enhancement, not worth the time and effort?
On subs, no thanks. I've heard subs w/Soundlabs and as not wanting to derail the conversation, let's just leave it at pros/cons to doing so. A Swarm might be worthwhile sonically, but wouldn't work in my space.
Cheers,
Spencer
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@cerrot thanks for the suggestion, which I like, and sorry if I was unclear, but the Allnic would be about double my budget. Cheers,
Spencer |
@sbank , yes, you are right. The Schroder Reference and Model 2 are interesting arms but not my cup of tea either. They are his earliest designs. I agree also on the Helius. Small companies have a habit of disappearing. However a well made arm should be essentially immortal. Value depends on what the mythologists do with it. The SME V does just fine without those adjustments. Updating the Audiomods arm will not change it's basic problems. You have to get the center of mass of the cartridge and the center of mass of the counterbalance in the same plane as the vertical bearing to achieve neutral balance. You can't get the vertical bearing down at record level without severely messing up your VTA. If you have not watched this yet please do. It is a great primer on turntable and tonearm design. I only disagree with Villchur's position on anti skating. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rgK0YMsJXMSpencer, it takes a big leap of faith and you have to take a deep dive into digital territory but you can create an incredible system putting subs under Sound Labs. It is not a swarm system but it will require at least 4 individual subwoofers. If you are ever in the Boston area I'd be happy to demonstrate :-) |
I agree also on the Helius. Small companies have a habit of disappearing. Helius Designs have been in business since the early 1980s. |
I have a Audiomods Micrometer Series Five Tonearm with the continuous Wiring from Headshell to RCA Connectors at the Phonostage.
I also have an SME Series IV.
Neither of these are in use at present and have been on the Sub's Bench since 2019 when a Bespoke Design for a Tonearm was produced for me using a Donor Tonearm to produce the arm that remains in use.
I can't comment on whether a change of a Phonostage or Tonearm will produce the changes to the Vinyl Source of the System that is being sought.
Very recently I had a experience that had a profound impact on my thoughts about where I am at with my set up, to elaborate.
I took up the offer of a invite and have been present at a Debut and Demonstration of a New Design for a Tonearm. I was briefed over time on the design and progress, so the invite was appreciated and I was keen to encounter this experience.
The end result is that the experience undertaken has left such a positive impression, where the Demonstration has shown the New Design is able to outperform my preferred Tonearm. I have been at a loss to explain the exceptional delivery capability and the attractiveness of the presentation that was on offer from the New Design Tonearm.
I could not have understood any assessment offered by other attendees,
but as a follow up have fully understood all the commentary being passed on.
This was an experience needed to be encountered and evaluated against personal recollected impressions from previous experiences.
With that in mind, I would suggest to get out and listen to a few of the shortlist suggestions and other suggestions be offered.
A experience might be encountered that could change the plan full circle.
That type of impression and experience encountered will not be had just through discussing options on a forum.
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@pindac, yes that's great advice. As part of the leadership of a very active local audio group in my prior location, I was spoiled by the regular opportunity to listen to dozens of great systems and do regular comparisons/shootouts, etc. with many diversely and well-informed enthusiasts. Once the world gets a bit safer, I'll be hoping to hook up with Austin TX area folks to share some music, learning and a drink or two.
For now, I'm making audio plans in relative physical isolation.
FWIW, how would you compare your Audiomods to your SME? Cheers,
Spencer |
tough question , always more difficult with a well sorted system as yours is. The Dyna you have punches well above $. i would keep it and wear it out. Kuzma is safe bet, 2 bad the newer Triplaner do not fit SOTA.
best to you
Jim |
Listening to and using a tonearm are the final steps in evaluating an arm if you get the chance. Tonearms are straight forward mechanical devices. Most of the elements of a tonearm's design are clearly visible.
My own approach involves a set of criteria which I think are essential in achieving the best performance. Once those criteria are met it becomes necessary to evaluate criteria which are not so obvious like the resonance characteristics of the arm tube, ease of use and quality of construction. Using and listening are the best ways to do this but unfortunately, many of us to not get the opportunity and have to go by the opinion of others.
With arms that are being modified by secondary parties you can not be sure of what you are getting. SME is a very technically sophisticated company. I doubt anyone is going to make a significant improvement in performance with one of their arms and is more likely to do the opposite. Why would I buy an arm that needs to be improved? There is nothing I can do to a Schroder CB to make it perform better. |
Hi sbank 'Spencer' you have been very fortunate to have participated within a group with such a wide range of systems and experience.
I also fully understand how it can be to be insular when it comes to experiencing HiFi and lose a broad spectrum on how systems can sound and compare to ones own set up. The social interactive side is my most enjoyed part of my HiFi Enthusiasm and I do local group and planned for journey's to meet with like minded friends.
As a direct comparison it is difficult to offer a description as it is a long time since all Tonearms have been compared, one description that might help is that a Audiomods and SME IV have a similarity it their presentation.
When a Tonearm Design is used that can offer a unconstrained delivery that is differing from the above two designs it will show itself with quite a noticeable separation.
I loaned the SME IV to a friend during 2020 and they used this as a Benchmark against other Tonearms being trialled, in the end the a
12" Glanz Model was selected to be used.
I thought my go to Tonearm in use for the past few years was quite separated to the usual Tonearm Designs I am familiar with, it certainly has a standout presentation, that is without constraint, with a musicality and airiness to the delivery, capable of immense detail retrieval,
which are the traits that won me over and this has been my end game Tonearm in my mind.
The recent demonstration of the New Design Tonearm has made me rethink the end game thought and I am eagerly awaiting the next opportunity to listen to it.
These type of assessments are subjective and it is difficult to explain the properties of the design that contribute to making such a positive impression.
How this Tonearm Design would separate itself from my owned Audiomods or SME IV is something that can put on the agenda for the future. How the test parameters are to be set up to be equal will be the challenge, I'm sure something can be created to allow for each to offer a reasonably accurate comparison.
Good Luck with your Socialising with Like Minded HiFi Friends in the Austin Texas Area, Blue Grass and Blue Steak evenings are sounding quite inviting. |
