I use tuning phase plugs... They come loose eventually.. I use a quick JB Weld for the center and an o-ring (cut a grove in the backside of the phase plug) and super glue gel on the outside of the o-ring. So the super glue will set in about 4-5 min and the JB weld in about 15 min. The two don't mix and last for at least 5 years up to, not coming loose again...
When and if driver upgrades or replacement are needed, you have a template or a good whack with an impact mallet will remove them, for the new drivers...
A lot of them are rebuildable, just have to take your time, stamped baskets... there are a lot of tricks.. Terminate the baskets edges with sandpaper and silicone, deadening matt for the baskets, Can treat the cone material, and experiment with surrounds, BR, Silicone, Foam, rag, pleated, Spider replacement and if you really want to tinker... Change the magnetic flux (strength) of the magnet...
Cast baskets some are nuts and bolts... so even the voice coil/cone can be replaced.. I've done quit a few for the kids through the years... OB subs in cars... BOOM... LOL
Regards |
@oldhvymec, these are cast baskets. The problem is that I have 4 subs and they have to match. What I do to one I have to do with them all. Then the problem is maintaining the same parameters.
I did the car thing when I was younger and car system s-cked. Now car systems are way better and I can't bring myself to rummage around in a $200,000 car. Around here the kids get used Acura's, slam them and stuff 4 subwoofers in there so you can here the BOOM BOOM two blocks away. Too much testosterone. |
LOL, I'm with you.. it is tough to get an automotive unit audiofile "certified".. Is there such a thing? I say that tongue in cheek. :-)
I would suggest that other than for your own personal "knowing", the (bass) section of most systems (250hz and below), you or I could hear good, better, best, BUT if I had a curtain between you and the production side of the sound... I could set up with 2-6 different bass bins, and we, (that's you and me), could tell the difference in sound quality, but not because things were the same, but because they were actually different...
Mix and match may well work BETTER, when it comes to "the whole package" so to speak...
My EX: I use "bass bins", 250 hz and down, AND
Subs, 60-80 hz and down.. The bins are 60-300 (max), the subs are 100hz and down.... (the numbers are close), not spot on...
I have a different way of doing bass than some, BUT it has yet NOT to impress the pickiest of the audiofile community. At the same time, bounce anyone right on out into the street, with their ears bleeding..
Have to be careful "in the chamber".
I use the 60-300 columns and they are directional. Because of that, the subs, not the bass bins are VERY easy to integrate. The result is the boom is in the room not the whole house. WHY?The subs are OB direct servo columns... It is a spin on DBA, but I KNOW it's better for me..
A huge reduction in room treatment also...and still a pretty large sweet spot... I can set up and dial in, in a week.. it takes years for some folks..
Regards... |
Hello oldhvymec,
I respect and applaud your efforts of experimenting with bass reproduction systems in your room and system in order to optimize bass performance.
As I believe you're aware, I also utilize the DBA concept in my room and system, but employ it in a more basic manner through an Audio Kinesis Debra 4-sub complete kit DBA system. My main speakers only go down to 35 Hz so my simple application of the DBA concept is to just have the 4 DBA subs reproduce bass below 40 Hz and down to their combined rated bass extension of 20 Hz,
This combination, of my mains reproducing all the bass down to 35 Hz and the 4-sub DBA reproducing bass below 40 Hz along with a slight overlap and redundancy between 35-40 Hz, has been perceived by myself as providing very good and well integrated bass at my main listening position. I perceive no need for supplementing the bass in the 60-300 Hz range that I'm assuming the use of your 'bass bins' are providing. I also have no difficulty setting up the A K Debra 4-sub DBA and dialing in the bass in a matter of a few hours, not years.
Just to be perfectly clear, I have absolutely no doubts that you are perceiving very good and well integrated bass at your main listening position with the combination 'bass bins' and subs bass system you've built and utilize.
My primary reasons for posting are curiosity and a better understanding of why and how you perceived a need for these 'bass bins' initially. For example, do your main speakers lack the ability to provide good perceived bass performance in the 60-300 Hz range at your main listening position?
Or do you perceive the enhancement of bass in the 60-300 Hz range at your main listening position, resulting from the deployment of these 'bass bins', as being beneficial in some ways to your system's overall sound quality or listening experience?
I'm just curious about whether you use them to achieve bass accuracy or bass enhancement? And if you use them for bass enhancement, what benefits do you perceive? I'm suspecting that using your 'bass bins' may result in improved bass detail and sound stage imaging.
Thanks,
Tim
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My very first sub, an M&K, did the same thing.
I wouldn't quite call this a failure, so much as a hiccup though. I used clear weather sealant, but achieved the same positive result.
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I figured someone else would do it erik. The glue used on mine was black rubbery stuff. Might well have been silicone. My cap was still down and I could not get anything thick under it without possibly damaging either the cone or the cap. So I used cyanoacrylate glue. Capillary effect sucks it right in. You just adding until the capillary effect stops. Then you have a full tank so to speak. Cyanoacrylate is more brittle and it might break down in time. I'm working on MS Tool's Model 4 (when I can use my right arm.) Hopefully they will be done by next spring, up and working.
The Model 3's will be retired. I'm hoping the 4's will be the final version. They are 30 inch long cylinders with a decagon cross section. 10 sides perfectly beveled to 72 degrees made of 1.5" cabinet grade plywood (plywood is stiffer than MDF) The diameter is 15". A 15 inch driver will go in each end (balanced force.) That is #8 15" drivers total in 4 enclosures.
I intend on finishing them in a satin black polyester lacquer. With all that driver I should be able to push 105 dB without pushing them past 1/2
X max which is 12 mm for this driver keeping them well within their linear zone. Large drivers are not slow contrary to popular opinion as long as their motors are matched properly. But, they do not have to work near as hard to produce the same volume. This means much lower distortion levels, the primary goal in a high end system. By virtue of the design of these encloses distortion should be lower still.
Anyway, the point of this thread is to let people know this happens and is very easy to fix. If your woofer is belching or burping with aggressive low notes (play some Hip Hop) check the dust cover!! |
Wow OP got a little project going... I like it.. I've done folded horns too, mercy, load the slot with a sub standard driver. LOL shred the driver cone
in less than a week. We were kids LEARNING... I like horns though...
A lot of fun. Very E.. I like the sound, with valve amps doing the lifting...
Regards |
oldhvymec, I entertained doing that once but subwoofer horns are HUGE and putting 4 of them in my room would be comical to say the least. Fortunately, today we have high power amps and digital correction so you can make a little subwoofer do anything you like. |
I used to see woofers with dust cap problems on occasion back when I did consumer repair for a living. I repaired them with SealAll, which seemed to work a bit better than crazy glue. I've also glued down loose spiders in this way. I stayed away from replacing the surround though- for those I simply sent the woofer out to a local reconing service (which has been in business for at least the last 60 years).
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Sure that would work fine Atmasphere. I had one major problem. The cap had not come off. One side was glue starved to start with so it released. I didn't know this until I ran my finger nail under the cap. Pulling the cap off completely may damage the cone. Seal all is too thick to draw into the joint by capillary action. So thin crazy glue was the only option under these circumstances. It seems to be holding up fine and it just has to last until my new woofers are ready. |
I'm sure it will be fine. Good work!
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Never had a driver fail in a sub, usually it is the amp module that gives up the ghost. I have had this problem with several of my prior Subs. |
Yes, those plate amps are not built very well and they get the crap shaken out of them. If the board is moving enough traces can break.
However I had a Velodyne years back and before the amp faile the foam surround disintegrated. It is now a fish tank stand! Perfect. |
My old M+K needed a refoam job.My first attempt with one of those $20. kits.I got a little scary watching the glue set up faster than thought but I just kept massaging the cone up and down like they said and it works perfect.
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