Philjolet, No problemo. Yeah, the 1.6s are real nice. My approach to leaving them alone was to get a sub to fill in below 40->50hz. Music only goes down so low, with the exception of Organ Peddle tones and and Imperial Grand Piano, which has an extra bass octave.
If I could afford the space (no gots) and money (also a no show!) I might be able to afford multiple systems with multiple subs. Since I gotta make do with a single system for Stereo and NO X.1 HT, I'm kind of in a bad spot.
End result? A reasonable sub in a room which needs help.
The room can and will be helped, but must meet the WAF criteria or I'm a goner.
Obviously nutty mismatches....the 1.6s mated to a Denon HT receiver are, of course, to be avoided. |
Magfan,
I mean the 1.6 is so good (approaching the best made) that the rest of the components should be to that level before you buy a sub. Take advantage of that terrific speaker with amazing midrange.
Just my 2 cents, I'll stop being disruptive now...
:^) |
When I had 1.6's I bought a Velodyne DD12 and it rocked the house. Innersound ESL amp, and the Velodyne which set itself up to cross over at about 51hz if I remember correctly. It measured the 1.6's to about 44hz in my room, that was a great sub, and sounded great in that system. They are not cheap, but not that much more than a Vandy, which that replaced. |
Basics differ by opinion.
PhilJolet, are you suggesting wires instead of a sub? Maybe a room tuneup? Wires are indeed basic, since nothing works without them, but that is the last thing on my mind. The built-in limits of my house and where I can / can't set something up dictate some choices. And some system performance limits. The large size of the room is partially mitigated by the fact that it is very asymetrical and I have yet to find a bass hot-spot.
The room plays a BIG part, and plans are on the drawing board for some modest helps. A poor room can ruin even a megabuck system.
My modest HSU sub was about 25% of the cost of my Maggies.
But I know my 1.6s fairly well in my house. Furthermore, I've been a Maggie owner for over 30 years and have heard them in at least a dozen different locations. Some places were vastly better than others. I had my MG'1s in a large closet of about 900ft3. Had to swap them L/R for proper image and bass was no problem....All the way to the same speakers in a Gigantic Room, 2 stories and probably 10,000ft3 where I could play 'em as loud and long as it would go. I had 'em backed up to a dining area separated from the main listening area by 2 doors.....this really helped the backwave and seemed to augment the bass.
Naw, I'll stick to the sub. It is seemless and for what I listen to, helps lots. When I kick on some good jazz, and even the XM variety has its moments, you can really feel it.
Than, when not called for, it's gone. |
Vandersteen subs sound great with Maggies and dont break the bank. I have heard 1.6 with dual Vandy subs sound far better than the price the charge would lead you to believe. |
Try a MJ Acoustics MK200 II. Has a remote to adj phase which really comes in handy. Plus when set up right its pretty quick. |
Magfan,
for me there is a price at which you do not want to spend money on a sub but get the basics right first
Snaudio,
I am not familiar with either of your wires but you may want to try swapping them for others to see what happens
good luck and enjoy |
to all those who feel....'it's not necessary', I might have agreed until I got one.
It is both true that you don't notice it when it's on and miss it's when its off.
Proper setup is key. X-over freq. / location / loudness /phase / room
All matter. |
I have the 3.6 and have tried the james 10, 12, 15, and I have a large room. They all helped the very bottom end, I crossed over at 50-55hz, and the impact is just greater. The sub is not really heard, just more ooomph on big drum and organ transients. Very essential. Get the size for the room. Bigger is not necessarily better. |
With my three MG1.6 front speakers I have three elaborate custom design subwoofer systems, but, to tell the truth bass extension is not the main reason. For most music the MG1.6 is just fine without a SW.
My system has an electronic crossover with easily-adjustable crossover frequency(think knob), and my SW systems are happy up to 400 Hz or so. For some kinds of music, (think loud) the cone drivers of the SW systems provide an impact that the Maggies lack. I use the crossover frequency control to seamlessly transition from cone drivers to planars. Best of both worlds!
My interest is classical music, but I suspect that rock would benefit from cones in the SW and low bass range. After all, in a live concert aren't you listening to a bunch of 18" cone drivers? |
I tend to agree that the bass on the 1.6's is pretty good without a sub. It is important to move them out from the back walls in order to avoid cancellation of the lower frequencies. If you have unavoidable room placement issues a sub might be the only answer for deficient bass. If you go with a sub, go for one that is noted for tight, fast, bass response in order to emulate the Maggies. Also, you can do better than the AQ-4's. I used AQ-4's biwired, and they were OK, but I replaced them with Signal Silver Resolution and found them to be much less grainy than the AQ's. If it were me, I'd replace the wires and move the speakers out a couple more feet from the back wall and see what you have before going with a sub. |
Thanks Shiva. Will check out Epik.
Hi Philojet - I have audioquest type 4 for my speaker wires and use monster RCA cables to connect my pioneer cd player to the plinius.
thx. |
Greetings,
There is nothing wrong in desiring a sub to compliment your speakers. A decent sub can put out bass that most speakers can't touch and will definately give you more enjoyment when playing rock. No need to try and get used to flat sounding bass. Some other subs to look into are ones from Hsu and SVS. A more recent company called Epik, has a line of subs getting great reviews over at AVSforum.com, where you will find a forum devoted to subwoofers. As far as a universal player is concerned, look into the Oppo 980. it plays everything you want and costs around $200 dollars. |
what wire are you using? Your 8150 is a nice amp and should compliment the 1.6 nicely. I do not mean to be pushy, it is just that when I had 1.6s I tried several amps and never felt like the bass was missing anything.
Of course I like a simple set up to begin with so I am biased. |
Thank you all.
Very Helpful.
I listen to Rock mostly. The maggies are with a custom external xovers which give it enhanced high frequencies and this make the bass sound a bit flat. Like most of your recommendations - it maybe just an issue of getting used to.
Please also let me know source - entry level LP player and a CD/SACD/ DVD-Audio player.
thx. |
I think it depends on the amp running the Maggies, that determines how much, and the quality of your bass response. Almost, or some would say more, important, is the room and the speaker placement in that room.
I always have used a sub with mine. The new REL T-series subs are great, very fast and musical, and reasonably priced.
Pro-Ject Debut III, LP player, Oppo Digital 980H multidisc.
my recommendations, good luck. |
As a Maggie owner myslelf (3.5s and 20.1s) I tend to agree with Philjolet. I rarely hear my sub kick-in because the Maggies handle bass so well without it. To some extent it depends on what kind of music you like. If you like loud rock and bass slam then perhaps a sub is in order. |
If you do want a sub, the Velodyne SPL-R series subs are being closed out (Audioadvisor.com). The 8" is $600, 10" is $800. These include auto eq with a 6 band PEQ and high powered amps in very small cabinets. I'll be using 2 of the 8" subs with SMGs (among other main spkrs) when all arrives next week. I can update my experience with the combo then.
Marty |
I never felt the need to have a sub woofer with my 1.6s.
I would skip it and get better quality sources (or wire) and that would improve your bass as well. |
