Streamer observation / question to those who know


I'm not sure I know how to phrase this post so I may ramble please bear with me. It seems that most the new DACs have "I2S" ports yet the higher end streamers usually don't (yet maybe???).  Yeah I know there's no standard and they can't even decide between HDMI and RJ45 plugs but a 12K N20 streamer doesn't even try.  It's already or almost obsolete.  AES/EBU is purported as the premium interface but it's usually limited to PCM: Up to 32-bit / 192 kHz; DSD: Up to DSD64 via DoP.  So does that mean everyone was wrong about USB? Is USB fixed now?  If so why is I2S so prevalent on the newer DACs, is that just marketing or do DAC manufacturers know something streamer manufactures don't?

Upscaling to DSD may be fad like MQA but some DAC manufactures seem to believe in it, going so far as basically putting two separate DACs into a single box and supporting up to DSD1024 and PCM up to 1.536MGHZ.  To perform that kind of on the fly conversion from flac to DSD takes a lot of CPU/GPU power but it should be possible with in a quiet box, with a linear power supply, an optimized OS and a I2S board for a lot less than 12K and at least supporting the current technology included in today's DACs.  An even cheaper solution would be forgoing the DSD1024 with a i7 fanless computer and a DCC add a linear power supply and for less than a quarter of the cost you should be able to reliably stream DSD 256 and probably DSD 512 thru I2S.

So,  What am I missing?  I'm not saying a high end streamer doesn't sound better than a dedicated PC (I haven't compared them) I just don't know what's in the box that makes it better that much better. With the limitations of its' processing power and interface should a high end streamer even be considered based on today's DACs?

128x128danager

I disagree with Jason .  Many high resolution FLAC and in particular well done DSD will sound notably open and realistic than Redbook.  This however is a generalization.  If the original recording isn’t up to par playing it in a higher resolution format won’t make much of a difference.

  I haven’t DAC shopped in a while.  Are most of the higher end ones now offering I2S?  I use a Bryston DAC3 which has 4 HDMI inputs and I use an Oppo 105 to output the DSD from SACD into the DAC.  I never understood why manufacturers just didn’t add HDMI instead of I2S.  HDMI is supposed to be more jittery but I think it’s excellent 

I will preface this question by saying that I am not well versed in what goes into the design. construction or implementation of digital cables.

That being said, it seems to me that instead of dealing with the relative strengths and weaknesses of spdif, USB or I2S, why hasn't someone reinvented the wheel?

Surely someone can design a cable format and the required connectors that combine the best characteristics of each cable, so we can have a new "industry standard" going forward.

A high end streamer is built from the ground up to meticulously deal with every parameter that impacts the sound quality. Each aspect is considered by design, part choice, and location. This certainly includes processing, power supply, physical vibration. My streamer weighs 45 lbs… because of the massive case to dampen vibration, isolate interference, provide absolutely clean power (the audio circuits while playing are battery operated). Every minute detail is dealt with as if someone’s life depends on it.

The amount of design,  testing (the effect of each sub component on the sound quality), and manufacturing effort is enormous, with the result being of vastly superior sound. As a consequence models are not turned over every year like some design sent over to China for a manufacturing run. Somewhat like luxury cars… meticulous design and construction and years between fundamental design changes. Performance works like that as well… you get stunning performance which cannot be bested by inexpensive units because of the superior parts and design for many years.

As a consequence of above, a high end company will not put in a new, untested or experimental interconnect type. The first thing that would happen is someone would plug it into something that has substandard sound and their streamer would be associated with inferior sound.

I have owned and compared truly high end and good quality and budget audio equipment for fifty years and the bargains are the truly high end equipment that get you the very best performance a decade ahead of the more budget equipment and sound great far into the future as the budget and middle of the road stuff slowly get better.

I use a Schiit URD (it does only Redbook) USB to Schiit's own "Nexus" input in a Bifrost 2/64. It works.

@mahler123

Most new DACs have standardized on I2S even though their is no standard???

Laiv Harmony supports 8 different formats internally

Holo Audio includes I2s even on their entry level Cyan

Sonnet DACs have it but use RJ45 not HDMI

Lamizator’s flagship Poseidon

Denifrips

PSAudio

and many others.

All I’m sayin is yes I understand that quality of build, isolation principles, power considerations, software interface are all factors but the worlds best buggy whip can be admired for it’s craftsmanship but it has become a relic not really a factor in today’s transportation industry.  Are today's high end streamers tomorrows buggy whips?