Stock Voyager GaN amp (350/600) Contrasted with my EVS1200 (600/1200)
The Voyager (V) I received is well broken in, and as the title says, it is stock. An upgraded version will come later.
I let the V warm up for ~ 24 hours while I listened to my beloved EVS 1200 (~$2300) playing a wide variety of Redbook CDs; The Judds, Chris Issak Heart Shaped World, Leonard Cohen remastered collection, Willie Nelson Across the Borderline, the Eagles Hell Freezes Over, and Jennifer Nettles Playing with Fire (love the music, but the mastering has a few ear bleed cuts- or does it???). I capped the session off with Roger Waters Amused to Death SACD, a huge, occasionally very dynamic, and intentionally phasey recording. While I enjoyed the hell out this listening session, but
afixed in my mind was reading others reporting on their not fully broken in V amps frequently mentioning detail/clarity, the music via the EVS 1200 wasn't as focused as I felt it should, but have accepted for 2 years, as it easily outperformed my PS Audio M700s (MSRP $4000), FYI, their M1200s are based on the same IceEdge AS1200 modules as my EVS 1200, but untouched. They simply added their own tube input stage (MSRP $7000), and Audio Alchemys DPA-1 ($2000), wish I could have tried the monos ($4000), but...
Could the lack of focus be elsewhere, like the Wire World
Electra 7 Power Conditioning
cord
($240),
connected to
my Audio Alchemy DDP-1 + PS 5, which is IMO, my weakest PC, all the others are $700+, or my $150 Pangea XL coax cable? How would the V stack up? Im thinking it can't be THAT much better, and what about the huge power disparity in my ~ 26 x 38 X 12 lively room with lots of glass and open beam ceilings, which adds up to brightness?
I connected the V, but didn't want to start with any of the same discs, just in case the V needed to see some signal before being ready for the comparison, so I chose Getz/Gilberto Jobim and Astrud
Gilberto
SACD as a nice way to ease into the Voyager. I haven't listened to this disc in months, so no recent memory to taint hearing it now. Did I say 'ease'. Silly me.
I'll cut to the chase hear/here, from the first note, it was obvious that this is a special amp, but at $3500 MSRP? OMG: What a steal!!! The focus reminds me of how much sharper and with greater depth of field pictures taken with Leica camera lens are, compared to all other cameras and lenses. GaNs magic is the equivalent of Tesla EV motor speed- immediate: The V grabbed me from the first note.
More to come after I go through the Redbook CDs that I started with, but I already know it's a moot point. And wilder, still, LSA has already made a few tweaks, like the internal wiring for an additional $175.
Ric Schultz was right when he said expensive amps will be boat anchors
Density is the precise word I could not pull from my brain when I instead said the Voyager couples better to my room.
Also, no matter what the instrument I want to hear the leading edge of the notes as well as the body of the instrument, plus the harmonics and decay. The Voyager is capable of doing those far better than any amp I can recall owning, with 2 very distant possible exceptions being the Accoustat servo tube amps and a Kinetics KB 75 class A amp. I say capable, as the ability to sound live is recording dependent
Muscularity, meat on the bones…Density? Audiophiliac on YT did an episode a while ago addressing what, in his view, is needed for hifi to go that last bit toward the ultimate goal of sounding like live (presumably un-amplified) music. Aka, lifelike. He posited: Density.
Maybe Density, Muscularity and Meat on the bones are describing the same thing? I dunno. The last two seem like the same—anatomically, at least. Lol.
+2 @grannyring I have never seen anyone as desperate to prove themselves right as viber6. He has over 1500 posts on Jay's amplifier thread, all saying pretty much the same thing. It is truly sad to observe. Now he is preaching it on this thread. Live music is a physical, visceral, experience. Or as you put it, it has muscularity and meat on the bones when heard live. I have heard plenty of acoustic instruments live. Inside, outside, it doesn't really matter. Pretty much all of them are visceral. If a system creates a sound that is thin and thread bare without visceral impact, which someone clearly loves, I have zero interest. It doesn't sound like real, live music to me.
Warmth is not the same as muscularity and meat on the bones body missing in some Class D amps as well as others. Some talked about here. This body is part of proper tone and found in the wild.
"Neutrality can be all over the place because no one does straight wire bypass tests on amplifiers. Some call an amp neutral when it has no natural warmth........what is natural warmth? Just your guess. I think you can have an amp that has natural warmth and super detail. The question is.....does the Benchmark have natural warmth.....or does it lack natural warmth? Again as you say......the degree of warmth."
Words are poor approximations of what we hear. I want as much transparency as I can get. Can we objectify "transparency?" YES--do the bypass test with and without the line stage between the source and power amp. Assuming no impedance mismatches, the totally transparent line stage will have no effect on the sound compared to source direct to power amp. With all of the line stages and preamps I have tried over the years, when the line stage was added, there was a loss of transparency/detail and INCREASE IN WARMTH. That is the best definition of warmth I can come up with, and you know what I am talking about. On a more subtle level, you have found that different wires exhibit this phenomenon. I'll speculate that the shorter length of any wire, the better and more transparent it is. Eliminating contact points as from your binding post alternative no doubt increases transparency, and I will speculate that it also decreases warmth. See the next paragraph.
However, NATURAL warmth has nothing to do with audio systems, but it is a characteristic of some live unamplified instruments and voices in a certain acoustical setting. The warmth in audio systems is NOT natural; it is just plain euphonic distortion with loss of information. Some have attributed this to even order 2nd or 4th harmonic distortion in tubes and tubelike SS electronics. Also see my latest 2 posts on Jay's thread on this subject.
The Voyager I have here to mod has EAR feet (rubbery type) that are mounted by screws. Sorbothane is a particular brand of material. EAR has their own formula. Here is what is on the Voyager I have here:
Neutrality can be all over the place because no one does straight wire bypass tests on amplifiers. Some call an am neutral when it has no natural warmth........what is natural warmth? Just your guess. I think you can have an amp that has natural warmth and super detail. The question is.....does the Benchmark have natural warmth.....or does it lack natural warmth? Again as you say......the degree of warmth. Then there is matching your whole system....two components that have a lack of warmth and you have no soul. So, if you have one that lacks....then you need another that adds to come back to neutral. I remember Michael Fremer's review of the Boulder mono blocks....he compared them to his Dartzeel amps. He praised the Boulders for being so detailed and dynamic.....but at the end of the review......he called them "dry".....saying they let go of the note to soon (not enough decay). People have said the same about the Benchmark......is it true?
I think it has more to do with switching speed than the amp softening the sound. Think going from an ok dac to a top flight R2R filling in the digital sign wave steps
Having recently upgraded my machina dynamica springs reveals that the V is a chameleon. My V has 4 sorbothane devices glued onto the V, and as can be expected, the overall sound was slightly slow and muffled, which immediately opened up the V.
Each replacement was followed by listening to the same few songs (in this case Rickie Lee Jones Naked Songs. Next under the DDPA-1 pre/dac. Both were revealing more clarity, so I ordered 3 more sets. First, I strategically placed 2 of them directly under the Oppo laser and the upgraded LPM toroid. Again a major improvement, then under the PS 5 outboard PS for the DDP-1. And lastly, under the 2 outboard XOs. At $26/set of 4, this is an absolute bargain. I also have 2 more sets coming which will allow me to take my EP 3.4s off the Harbor Freight dollys, which will lower the 12" concentric driver to better meet my ear level from the chair.
After all were placed I then slightly increased the volume on the powered subs plate amps (some 10+ years old) to hear what impact that would have on the bass. Doing so was a mixed bag. Better would be to have a quality active XO.
It's all a matter of degree of warmth. Warmth is most obvious for HF, but the rest of the freq range is affected as well. The most clarity/detail is enabled by neutrality. With a reasonably efficient speaker and music that doesn't demand very loud SPL's, the AHB2 is the best for clarity/detail. No risk if someone doesn't like it--return before 30 days to either Benchmark or a retailer. But the V has a 15% restocking fee.
Absence of earsplitting pain suggests that the Voyager softens the bad music even just a little. My Rouge IceEdge is quite neutral, whereas the V may be slightly warmer, according to the comments of most V users. I suppose Ric's mods retain the neutrality and further enhance the clarity, but......
If Ric's mods warm the stock IceEdge a bit, this might correlate with your finding that the V has more clarity. Strange.
Last night I played my absolute worst torture test cd Wilson Philips
Greatest Hits, and for the first time I was able to listen without earsplitting pain,
but the music IMHO SUCKS.
Last night I listened to Jackson Brown Solos Acoustics Vol 1 and Janis Ian Breaking Silence Both have been played hundreds of times, with Janis having been played on lots of different systems over the decades. I also saw her live in a tiny Musicians Exchange venue in Ft Lauderdale back in the 80s. Both were spooky real, sounding live. Never heard either sounding so alive
Viber, another guy asked the same q. He and I both searched, but could not find a link. Looks like you will need to buy the issue if it’s important to you
Tweak1, Sorry, I couldn't find the Technics review in TAS online. Do you have a link? What is the full name of the Technics amp so I can try searching for it? Thanks.
As you know, I have enjoyed my EVS 1200 for 2 years, giving it tons of praises. Every song I have played through the Voyager was played many times through the 1200. There is no reason to go backwards. The Voyager/GaN technology at least how LSA has implemented it is that much better. And keep in mind the Voyager is a ground up design with many hiccups along the way
My critique is not about Rics ability. I know there were things Ric would have liked to have done, but the modules simply didn’t allow for it, so he did the best he could, and I was very happy, until...
It’s going to be interesting to hear what people think of his mods to the V. It’s so damned good stock, and I trust Rics tweak ability
Tweak1 - Leitz lenses are great, but they are not inherently better than other lenses just because they're Leitz lenses. Oh, and 'depth of field' is adjusted by changing the aperture, it's got nothing whatsoever to do with who makes the lens.
Whatever your preferred system and acoustic tweaks you use, listen to the Voyager for many more weeks in a standardized way, and then go back to the EVS1200, to report on your findings. I got lost trying to follow your findings with so many changes going on. Thanks.
And it’s not JUST audio tweaks, as getting my roof siliconed proved to be very beneficial. More though, speaker XOs are typically done by ear in a specific room, to a specific amplifier, or taste. My Emerald Physics 3.4s (12" concentric drivers with 1" polyester dome tweeters) are plenty adequate for most rooms, but in my voluminous room I supplement with 2 SVS 12" down firing subs. I had the XOs set at ~ 80 (which works with some bass shy, or overly bright discs), but as I kept turning them down to ~ 45 speed significantly increased as well as detail, yet still providing the fullness of notes say from a hollow body guitar, or banjo, and I suspect a violin, cello...
ricevs, Yes, there are many tweaks that affect the sound. Suppose you have sorbothane feet on amp A and B, then you put better feet on both amps. The essential differences between A and B will still be approximately the same, although both A and B will advance by the same X increment. Mathematically, (B + X) minus (A + X) equals (B minus A). At home, everyone has a different system, but we should use the same ancillary components no matter how good or bad they are, in order to zero in on the essential differences between A and B amps.
Another meaning of the "infinite shade of things" is that there is a continuum of the tonal spectrum ranging from muddy, old style tube 1950's sound to the other end, which is raw, brilliant, sterile. Sometimes we think A is neutral, until we hear B, which makes A seem tubey compared to B, even by small degrees. Vocabulary is usually vague, so there is no substitute for careful, educated listening.
Viber6, It is not black and white like you always describe. There is an infinite shade of things. Did not you read how the LSA became faster and clearer (less tube like, to you) after he got rid of the rubber feet? My mods will make it even faster and clearer.....but hopefully even more harmonically correct....maybe even warmer sounding. There is a scale of warmth....and a scale of detail.....you can mix them anywhere along both lines......you could have super clear amp with various amounts of warmth. What is neutral is unknown. What we like is. When some describe "tube like".....they mean something that portrays the correctly warm harmonics of real music (something most transistor gear has a hard time with)........that is what some mean by tube like. Old tube sound always adds color and loss of detail.....new tube sound does very little to the sound. There are no absolutes.....just shadings.
Remember when Jay put those footers under his amp and it sounded cold and super fast?......well, some people might say that is more neutral.....he thought it was bad sound. We all tune to our tastes. The older Boulder gear had a rep for dry, cold sound......now they are even more detailed....yet are more harmonically juicy.......go figure.
Someone just told me this story yesterday. He was at a show and the sound in this room using a particular transistor amp was terrible.....even the rep came outside the room and apologized for the bad sound saying they are looking for a tube amp to compliment the system. The guy came back Sunday and with a tube amp there the sound was way better and he did not have to run out of the room, as before. The guy running the room tells him that he sold several complete systems (that included the zippy transistor amp) when the sound was zippy as hell.......they both laughed......some like it hot!
I remind anyone interested in this amp to read the Absolute Sounds
Technics review in Jul 2021 issue. As I read it the other day, he nailed
everything Im hearing, which should help you decipher my scribblings on
how the Voyager sounds
tweak1, So you don't find the Voyager tubelike, which are the impressions of others here? The promotional materials for many GaN amps assert that they are smooth/sweet/tubelike. This is true with Voyager and the upcoming Mytek GaN amps. This is what I heard with the Merrill 114 I had for a few weeks.
Everything is relative. Amp A sounds neutral and clear until you hear amp B which sounds even more neutral and clear, and shows A to be tubelike by comparison. So is A the EVS1200, and B the Voyager?
What I said is not what you stated.....I will leave it at that.
I am very pleased that we have new and better amps for everyone to enjoy. Yes, the world moves on...we all move on...don’t get stuck in the past. I am very excited to receive the fully burned in LSA and tweak it and compare it to a tweaked out (as of today, 4 straight days of playing into a load)
Purifi amp that I have here......this is gonna be fun!
Last night I listened to Alison Krauss + Union Station New Favorite. Listened to it at least 50-100 times. It was always entertaining, but I simply wasn't prepared for how everything sounded so clear, so focused and natural. Not even thinking about it, when the banjo played I was floored, as I never noticed it before, because it never had its own space or sounded so natural. Ditto all the musicians and singers.
I remind anyone interested in this amp to read the Absolute Sounds Technics review in Jul 2021 issue. As I read it the other day, he nailed everything Im hearing, which should help you decipher my scribblings on how the Voyager sounds
"Blows away" in this case means the sound stage is bigger, wider, deeper , significantly more life-like (micro-details are much more evident) than the amp I had such high praises for, but compared to what? Certainly not to the Voyager, which, BTW does not make mediocre recordings sound better (very neutral), but on really good recordings, it is very life-like, especially on large orchestra where I get a real sense of how big the orchestra is, and where the various sections are.
When I first started my EVS thread, and mentioned that I was going to be receiving a Voyager, I was scolded by Ric for supposedly preventing hundreds of sales (actually, I think he said thousands), but he knew that GaN done right was the future. And we know it took them 2 years to bring it to the market. Numerous times in that thread I tried to tell those potential hundreds of EVS 1200 customers, who needed the power, not to wait. My big concern was would literally 1/2 the power fill my voluminous room. Little did I know the Voyager @ 350/600 would be every bit as powerful in delivering the power and authority, only better, much better.
When I first hooked up the EVS1200 ~ 2 years ago, I was using Surf Cables silver XLRs between Audio Alchemy DDP-1 and the EVS 1200. I used it until maybe 9 months ago when I switched them out for WireWorld Series 7. Draw your own conclusions.
As to the many assumptions on Vipers part... well I’ll just leave it at that, other than to say this amp was WELL BROKEN IN before I received it
tweak1, Appreciate your input. Since you received the V last Thurs, you have only had them 150 hours, with probably much less play time. How do you know how many hours Wally put in for you, as a good customer? Someone on the LSA Voyager GaN thread said that initially the V was harsh, then later it became tubelike. Perhaps you are in the transition phase from hyper detailed/harsh to tubelike. Perhaps your EVS1200 has become warmer sounding with age, since you wrote after a month or so of ownership, that the EVS was neutral/detailed. Let's see what you find after 500 hours or so on the V.
I have been breaking in my Rouge 1200 amp with the same CD of Mozart violin concertos on repeat, 16 hours/day, now about 365 hours. I listen attentively on and off, and I know the tonal characteristics of all the music on this CD very well by now. This is more informative than switching between different recordings. Of course, when we live with the system, we want to hear all kinds of music, but for testing purposes this leads to confusion. Also, trying various footers, cables and such is confusing because of all the variables introduced. Just use the same ancillary equipment to A/B the V and EVS amps. It doesn't matter that Machina Dynamica springs are better than sorbothane footers, because the same relative differences between the amps will be found.
Ha! I laughed a bit at the “blows away” comment. All subjective and based on the system the amps are placed in. The EVS amp, in my rig with a $15,000 preamp, sounded great. No way another amp would ever, ever “blow it away”. However, even the phrase “blow it away” is subjective. I have heard DHT and triode tube amps that sound more tonally enjoyable to my ear than the EVS, but I certainly don’t want anymore detail or razor sharp info. I value tone over detail.
Can you and will you articulate the fine details of the differences between the two amps? Blow away......means what? So far, I know nothing except you think it is more lifelike, smoother, more continuous, purer and now "blows away". What about tonal differences, dynamics, bass, midrange, detail, micro detail, treble extension, air, imaging, depth, soundstage, etc. into infinity?
I neglected to mention "power". My last 4
Class D amps were: Emerald Physics 100.2SEs (100wpc?), Audio Alchemy DPA 1
(125/200), PS Audio M700s (350/700) < none of these adequately coupled to my
room; ~26 x 35 x 12, lots of glass and terrazzo floors, meaning it's a lively
room. So I bought my EVS1200 (dual IceEdge AS1200 modules!) direct from Ric
(600/1200 per module!!!) and it did the job of coupling the room to the music.
Let that sink in, BECAUSE, the Voyager (350/600 per, as it has dual modules) is
every bit as energetic/powerful, but on good recordings, blows the EVS away.
Interesting. I did not find the EVS warm. I did find the tone of this amp is greatly influenced by the footers used and power cord. It could go from slightly warm to razor sharp leading edges and copious amounts of inner detail.
In further assessing my stock Voyager, I finally got around to
classical. First up was Yellowstone by Chip Davis. I have a connection
to this as I visited Yellowstone and hiked around. On one hike along
close by a river a small herd of Buffalo came by some 30 yards away from
us. I took a picture of a calf suckling on its mother. We stood and
watched without moving, and yet the bull came between us and his herd,
non threatening, but certainly sending a message.
The album
has cuts with nature sounds, as though they were recorded in the open.
Expansive, open, transparent, well recorded. It's this kind of recording that makes
the Voyager special
To answer the question "How does it sound?" I recommend reading the Absolute Sound Technics Integrated Review in the July 2021 issue, under the heading enough of the technobabble... I couldn't have said it better myself
My EVS 1200 slightly warmed the recordings, and while that has a place, I much prefer the Voyager
"Switching Speed" that’s the term I was unable to pull from my brain lol
When Ric asks "
Can you describe the tonal balance difference, bass response,
naturalness, soundstage, air, high frequency extension, detail, speed,
dynamics, slam, decay, depth, purity, separation of instruments, noise
level, ability to handle complex music, etc, etc.....something?
"
Perhaps the Voyager has revealed the limits of my Audio Alchemy dac, and possibly the limits of my Oppo 105 as a transport, or one XLR interconnect (Surf Cables Silver), although when I say that, listening to say KD Lang Ingenue last night,which sounded ’good’, but not crazy good, until the 4th song, which was properly recorded and sounded amazing. It just depends on the recording. I'm guessing analog 'philes will be overjoyed
Also, a discrete input seems the logical next step
It will be interesting to hear the "real story" of the development of the Voyager, etc. Apparently, LSA and Peachtree are buying the power supply and the modules from a 3rd party? So, maybe they had nothing to do with the development? Maybe their own initial amp was a dude? Would be nice to know the story......but, I doubt they would want to say. It really does not matter. We now have two versions to choose from and play with and mod.
It will be interesting to see how the Voyager/Peachtree actually compares with the mega buck class A amps. So far, it is not killing the $3K Benchmark or the $6K Coda.according to yysantabarbara. Of course, mods are yet to come.
George was always going on about the switching speed of the output stage.....1.5meg being his number that he likes to throw around....and only Technics is switching that high. I believe the LSA/Peachrtree probably switches at 500K....but it is not stated. However, the speed of the GaN itself is way higher than a mosfet....so possibly allows lower distortion even at normal switching speeds (less overshoot, less ringing, mo betta dead time control)..
It will continue to get better and better.....this is for sure. Later this summer we have two GaN amps being released from Mytek....then there is Wyred for Sound....then Orchard.....then Atmasphere.....lots of toys ahead.
Would be great if there were some details of the difference between the amps.....better means what? Can you describe the tonal balance difference, bass response, naturalness, soundstage, air, high frequency extension, detail, speed, dynamics, slam, decay, depth, purity, separation of instruments, noise level, ability to handle complex music, etc, etc.....something?
A few more discs under my belt, including Jennifer Nettles, which as I have mentioned is a mixed bag, and through the Voyager the well recorded cuts sound significantly better, as in more life like, smoother, more continuous, but the poorly recorded cuts still sound bad. Linda Ronstadt Living in America sounded great, far better than it ever did via the EVS1200. So, to answer the question asked "is it better or just different", oh it’s better. A lot better!
I would say that George @georgehifi was right about the lack of processing speed (if that’s the correct term) in typical class D is its Achilles Heal when compared to the vastly superior GaN, but GaN in and of itself is not the be all end all. The execution of the power supply etc. is the key, and it seems the team behind engineering the Voyager have mad skills, preferring to wait 2 long agonizing years through many trail and errors before being satisfied and bring it to market. Kudos!
I agree that at different times of the day or night the music can sound different. To minimize that I have a 20 amp dedicated line, and my Oppo 105 and Audio Alchemy are plugged into a Core Power 1800 which is plugged into the dedicated line
I will add, that I think what Ric meant is not that people who already own very expansive amps will be quick to sell them and at a huge loss, just to buy a Voyager, though some might, but if the Voyager is compared to a lot of the uber expensive blingy amps pre-purchase, those might not be the purchase of choice
Why Walter is keen on them I do not know. When I bought my/his EP 100.2SE class D amps, I specifically told him no sorbo! He challenged me, and I basically said what you just said. Hopefully, the ones being shipped to customers don't have them affixed, but Machina Dynamica Springs are tall enough. I also placed a ~ 10 pound marble slab on top.
Last night I relistened to the Eagles Hell Freezes Over and Willie Nelson Across the Border Line. Both sounded amazingly better with springs, but Willie freaked me out as to how life like it sounded. Today, I will relisten to Jennifer Nettles and the Judds, then move on to some classical
So, the stock footers on the LSA are sorbothane? How do you know they are sorbothane and not some other type of rubber footer? All soft things are bad...so no matter. Just curious. I cannot imagine putting soft rubberish feet on anything. I included some rubberish footers with my EVS1200 amp but the below was in the instructions:
"The 4 feet should be installed underneath the amp before listening. These feet are made by EAR and are used by Audio Research and others but are not anything special. If you have other feet, please try them. I am currently testing other better feet (Ginko, Teo, Ceraballs, Mad Scientist, etc.) and will have information on my website about footers and mounting platforms. The stock feet are OK to start listening but this amp deserves some mucho better footers."
Everything makes a difference. Please experiment. Still loving the best Mad Scientist footers.....on top of 1.5 inch maple.....on top of bamboo cutting board from IKea......on top of tractor tire innertube with hardly any air in it. I have tried some very low frequency tuned springs underneath instead of the air bladder and it was essentially the same (excellent).
I finally played something that I played yesterday, pre V: Hell Freezes
Over. The music was slightly softened, which affected everything. The culprit is the sorbothane footers . I never understood why they were ever popular, IMO, they have no benefit.
I placed 4 of my Machina Dynamica Springs near the footers and everything tightened up-
better focus, everything sounded faster and clearer, drums had a better thwack. Im sure the people who have the Voyager have some kind of isolation, vibration devices. Feel free to post your thoughts
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