@OP,
Hmm, your experience mimics mine- though I am using Atma Sphere.
I really like the Atma sound, but I have to say when I switch to Ayre, things seem to be a bit more punchy and tighter.
I have no intention of dropping tubes. In fact, I use them for the winter months to keep the living room warm, as well as giving me a different 'sound'.
Bob |
I just spent a nice day with my son, comparing the Bryston/Audio Research combination with the PrimaLuna Dialog HP integrated. In the end, we both preferred the solid state power/tube pre combination to the full tube integrated. It was pretty obvious to both of us, actually. I loved the PL, having lived with it for two years, but found it lacking in midrange clarity and bottom end punch. I suspect that with the right speakers, it could be a winner, but with my Vandys, not so.
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I've heard the Vandy 2's more times than I can remember, in many different rooms with many different components. I consider them as perhaps the best value in audio history. I am quite serious.
FWIW, I've always preferred them powered with ss gear, though the newer models seem to work better with tubes than the earlier ones. I've particularly liked them with McCormack, PSE and Krell. I've heard them sound quite nice with tube gear from Audio Research (and I'm not usually a big fan of the brand) and Quicksilver. |
Hi again, everyone!
I have been living with the Bryston/Audio Research combination for a few days now, and am very impressed. It seems to be doing exactly what I wanted it to--mids are much clearer, bass has more punch and authority. I haven't gone back to the PrimaLuna since I installed the new gear, but I am hoping to do some proper A/B testing this weekend. More as it develops.
Chris |
Them's two nice nice amps.
I will await your opinion. I have never listened to either, but I do know they are well respected manufacturers.
Bob |
I located a very clean Bryston 3B SST and an Audio Research sp16, both of which should arrive next week. Then I can do some A/B testing and make a decision. Looking forward to the trials!
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@OP,
Glad to be of service. That is what this forum is for.
Johnny is one of the best dealers out there. And, believe me, as a NYC guy, I came to hate dealers with a passion. But, Mr. Rutan broke the mold.
Bob |
@eskelinfan
He also talked to me about the problems in pairing tube preamps with ss power amps.
Sometimes I rotate in different class A/AB SS amps with my own 6sn7 based tube preamp just to remember where I came from and revisit every once in while. The hybrid tube-pre and ss-amp approach can sound more lush and open at first, yet it still has that two dimensional sound for my ears. While I do like the hybrid approach for a bit, then put any of the tube amps back into play, and the layered three dimensional sound and more relaxed sound stage with all-tube returns. The choice also depends on what type of presentation you are looking for, and once you go back and forth a few times, you’ll get a better idea on what you prefer. |
I had a great conversation with John Rutan yesterday. What a cool guy! He spent about a half hour with me, asking about my system, my room, and my music preferences. I mentioned that I am a jazz musician, and he told me about the drummer Billy Drummond's Vandy 3 system. He said Billy uses a Bryston 3B he bought on the cheap (used, I assume) and a Modulus preamp. He also talked to me about the problems in pairing tube preamps with ss power amps. All in all, he gave me a lot to think about. I am planning now to save up some coin so I can dive into used ss separates while retaining my PL integrated so I can compare them better. Chances are that if I don't dig the ss stuff, I can resell it here. Likewise the PL--not a lot of those coming up for sale here.
Thanks so much for connecting me with John, Bob. Much appreciated.
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Great--thanks, Bob. If I decide to stay with tubes, I will likely hang onto the PL, and think about rolling in an octet of KT150s. Looking forward to hearing what John has to say.
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@OP,
Good move on PM'ing Johnny.
Sometimes he doesn't check his Agon PM's, so I will give him a reminder...
And, as far as tubes go Ralph Karsten (atmasphere) would be someone who might be able to offer some info.
Bob |
@eskelinfan
If you do go the different-amp route, and want to stay with tube (resale yours for some reason) and want fewer output tubes to deal with, the other option to mention is Quicksilver Audio. Vandersteen and QS are 1hr away from each other. Lots of people with Vandys run QS amps too. The Mono 120s with KT150 tubes, gives fewer KT150s to deal with, however you'd still need a preamp to run with the mono tube amps. QS Linestage or something. Good luck on the decisions. |
Thanks, everyone! I had a pair of Gold Lion 12au7s lying around, so I rolled them into the middle slots of the preamp section, and that helped the focus a lot. Buy comparison, the Ciftes seemed "shouty," almost like they were adding reverb. I sent a PM to John Rutan, and will be interested to hear his thoughts. I had considered the KT150s, but didn't want to spend $800 on the PL if I was going to end up wishing I had gone a different way.
More as it develops.
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Do both. I tried nice Cifte’ u7 input tubes in a different amp and was underwhelmed. The Vandy 2ce Signature will benefit from added power, a buddy tried my former EL34 amp (12 output tubes) with them. A little too smoothed over. A quad of KT150s in an amplifier with proper transformers and plate voltage to drive them properly is a different type of power, dynamics, and clarity compared to those particular laid over EL34s that come stock in those PL amps, fwiw. |
op
before you do anything major try putting the chinese 12au7’s that came from the factory back in your PL - they should improve transparency over those somewhat lazy and hazy sounding cifte’s
other idea is try shuguang kt88’s in UL mode... it will clear up the sound profile |
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Vandy's pair great with Ayre. An AX7e would be a good integrated, as well as a Belles Aria integrated.
Of course, you can buy separates and get additional power/higher resolution-though it depends upon your budget.
I run my Treo's with either Ayre MX-R's, and KX-R, or Atma-Sphere MA-1's and MP-1, and sometimes mixing between the two manufacturers.
I am not one to be anally searching for differences between components, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.
I find the Ayre and Atma amps to be very close in sound.
I find the Ayre preamp to be just a hair more 'dynamic' than the Atma preamp.
Neither is a slouch- just different.
So, in my opinion, if you can swing it, buy Ayre.
Sorry, I have no experience with Bryston.
One Audiogon member you should PM is audioconnection (John Rutan).
He know Vandy and will give you the best information.
Bob |
