ss players vs tube players

Audioguy, you are correct! The tube output stage actually IS a preamp.

Nevertheless, obviously, I stand by my tube versus solid state sound description. The 657 reflecting that...

Distortion, it's an unexpected and terrific thing the "Most Useless Audio Adjectives" list is taking on a life of its own. A lot of fun for sure.

Now, does the solid state output of my Granite sound tubelike? That is the real question...

Paul, I think "smoother and richer" have to be qualified a bit. We are probably on the same page sonically, but our words are different. Sometimes, I think two audiophiles who seem to diverge in words would come together 100% if they were in the same room. As what they hear is the same, and often the statement is made, "Oh, that's what you meant by BLAH? Yes, I agree, but, I called it FOO."

"Smooth" is the opposite of that variation I previously discussed. While I called it (probably incorrectly, as I pointed out) dynamic range, it's the low - high variation I hear with tubes. Solid state, in most cases, has less of that. I hesitate to call it flat or dull, as that would be a piece with too much of this going on.

"Rich" is where things kind of slow down a bit in terms of pace. The increasingly infamous "Pipe and Slippers Sound" is rich taken up a notch or two. I hear this with electrostatic speakers, again, despite the "conventional wisdom" And, I hear it in a lot of solid state. I often have felt that what is described as "tubelike" by those who praise, and "mosfet haze" by those on the other side of the camp is the way many have tried to put what I'm saying about solid state into words.

Tubes, to me, seem more open and light on their feet.

Intersting thread you've started here, to say the least. Well done!

Trelja

According to Granite, the dac used in the player (PCM1710), includes analogue voltage output (op amps). So the signal to the tube stage fed from the dac has already passed through solid state circuitry. Just FYI. When assessing your player the sound is more of the hybrid variety than a true tube player (with the tubes performing ALL voltage gain). The Granite's tube output stage is a 2nd gain stage, acting like a preamp. In fact it IS a preamp with volume control :-)

generally, i prefer a tube analog stage. there is one exception, namely the naim cd x, which sounds less "digital" than any player i have ever heard.

Trelja, Speaking of the "useless adjective list" I would like to thank you for making me feel completely self conscience when describing any attribute possibly related to sound!

...Of course I'm just ribbin' around with ya!

I had a Cayin 15 with both tube and ss outs, I much prefered the tube outs. My current player has tubes and feel no need to "go back" to a ss player.
The way Trelja describes his ss out, "smooth, richer" is the way I heard the tube on the 15 vs the duller/less soundstage sound of the ss output.
I mean it was not night/day results, but the difference was there in favor of tubes..

Distortion, I deserve no credit for that great adjective, it was put forth two folks a lot brighter than me.

I'm lucky enough to own a Granite 657 CD player, which features both tube and solid state output. And, as I put forth in the "Useless Adjectives" thread, my experience with this player perfectly mirrors my experiences with tube and solid state amplifiers. It just so happens that my opinions are completely opposite of the way things have always been described.

Tube sound to me is very open, clear, and engaging. I simply hear more detail with tubes. And, no, they are not sluggish or slow, either. Quite the contrary. The midrange of tubes is simply incomparable. Treble, can be sweet or glaring, but that often depends as much on the tubes themselves as well as the room and rest of the system. I also tend to feel tubes have more dynamic range, but I'm sure someone's going to take issue with that statement. Maybe I'm using the wrong adjective, but what I'm trying to say is that I hear more variation in volume with tubes. Tubes are not as full bodied or rich in the low frequencies, which provides the foundation for the music.

Solid state is richer, more relaxed and liquid, and more powerful and full in the low frequencies. Often, the upper mids/lower treble of solid state can be far easier to take with solid state. While what I'm saying may sound off the wall, if you look at the impedance curve of a loudspeaker, it really makes sense. In this area, many, many speakers today exhibit a sharp rise in impedance, which is where a tube can put out the most power, and as such these frequencies can sound more tipped up. Solid state exhibits the opposite effect. If you're looking for that "pipe and slippers" sound we had a bit of fun with, I have to go against the grain and say you're far more likely to find it with solid state.

The Granite offers me both. So, which do I prefer? Well, I like having the option of using either. I switch between them based on the music I'm playing, mood, and even what room/system I have the player in. But, to be truthful, because of the volume control of the tube output section, I use this one more in absolute terms.

get a external tube buffer and try it to see if you like the results.

No bearing on sound quality. Not like tube vs. SS amps and preamps. Overall design and quality of components is what matters here. Actually, the nuvistor has characteristics of both a tube and a transistor...sort of a cross-breed.

I know of a tube guy that recommends staying away from anything with nuvistor "tubes", due to possible QC tolerance problems involved during the manufacture of such a tiny pseudo-tube.

I like pie!

Seriously, ...both! I am running SS now, but it's a very tubelike SS (pirated straight from Trelja's useless Adjective list)!

Barto - it is really a matter of personal listening preference and your associated equipment as to which you would like better. Why limit yourself? Go with the Cary 303/300 and you have the option of both tubes and solid state output stages and can switch between the two on the fly. It also has 5 upsampling rates that you can choose between for the best sound ( or the most pleasing to you). To have further flexibility, you can run either XLR or RCA output to your pre-amp, although the RCA with the tube stage should have a pre-amp with 100k input impedence to compete with the XLR output. You can even do some tube rolling - there are lots of good quality NOS 12AU7 tubes around at decent prices. Have fun!