Square D QO Panel Recall

As a long term audiophile I want to state for the record that anyone trying to fix their electrical panel is not a true audiophile.  The correct solution to a bad panel is to build a new house. 

Anything else is a mid-fi, low-fi solution.

EDIT:

I said:

Before an electrical fire in the panel happens home owners may be loosing appliances and electronic devices.

That should read:

Before an electrical fire in the panel happens home owners may be losing appliances and electronic devices.

kingrex OP

66 posts

06-21-2022 at 11:12pm

It appears out of 1.5 million panels sold, there is 1 complaint of a non torqued screw.

Ya, I read that too.

Just a gut feeling a loose neutral connection on the Line side of L1 and L2 120V connected loads could be a bigger concern for Schneider. Before an electrical fire in the panel happens home owners may be loosing appliances and electronic devices. A neutral is only a neutral when it is solidly connected to the source.

I said:

As you know only the unbalanced 120V L1 and L2 to neutral loads returns on the service neutral conductor to the utility power transformer neutral leg.

EDIT:

It should read:

As you know only the unbalanced 120V L1 and L2 to neutral load current returns on the service neutral conductor to the utility power transformer neutral leg.

It appears out of 1.5 million panels sold, there is 1 complaint of a non torqued screw.

@kingrex said:

If arcing had occures and the lug and or neutral bar were burned and required replacement, this would constitute reconditioning. 

"Reconditioning" defined by 2020 NEC, no.

Replace the interior with a new one yes. But not because of Nec 408.8 (A). Not the way I read it and the Art 100 definition of "Reconditioned" anyway...

I ran across this article doing a search. Actually I found a few articles on the subject that say the same thing.  

National Electrical Code | Reconditioned equipment - Eaton

I highly doubt you could purchase the lug and bar as individual items from Schneider.

Maybe the lug. Agree not the neutral rail bar. If the rail is burned/damaged the interior is toast. There is no repairing it. 

I wonder if Schneider will pay for the labor to pull the old interior and install the new one? There will be several man hours involved. Add labor if the main breaker is in the panel. Electricians in my area cannot break the seal and pull the meter. Only the Utility Co. can pull the meter and reinstall it. Time is money...

Something that has not been mentioned in this thread or in the recall bulletin, other than a possible electrical fire inside the panel enclosure, is possible damage to 120V appliances and  120V electronic devices that are connected to the side with the bad neutral connection.

 There will be a VD, (Voltage Drop), across an arcing loose connection. The greater the arcing the greater the VD. (Basically a resistance in series in the circuit.)

As you know only the unbalanced 120V L1 and L2 to neutral loads returns on the service neutral conductor to the utility power transformer neutral leg. The above arcing loose neutral connection is basically a loose service neutral connection between L1 and L2 connected 120 volt loads. The greater the imbalance of 120V L1 and L2 connected loads, connected to the neutral bar rail, the greater the voltage differences feeding the connected loads. Usually electronic device are fed over voltage and are damaged.  As I am sure you already know.

Jim

@kingrex 

Thanks,

I’ll open it up this weekend and check.

Many states and municipalities allow a home owner to pull a permit and perform electrical installations on their own.  It is reasonable to assume many will check the screw on their own.  

The information I am trying to provide will help a homeowner and contractor.   A senior engineer at SqD is having to ask around the company to know what the policies and procedures are.  Nothing is published.  At this point my guess is they have non.  

Jea, if you are mearly tightening a screw then no it would not apply.  Tighten the screw and your done.  

If arcing had occures and the lug and or neutral bar were burned and required replacement, this would constitute reconditioning.  I highly doubt you could purchase the lug and bar as individual items from Schneider.  They would tell your distributor to hand you a new panel off the shelf from their stock.  The logistics and paperwork to provide parts as well as concern over how far had the arc propogated is a liability.  Easier to just give you an interior.  Especially since the number of units affected might be counted on your hands.  

I will know more soon.  My source is reliable.  I have asked what is the procedure if an arc has occured.  

My gut says, if the scew was set properly at the factory, there is nothing to do.  If it were not, they are going to hand you a replacement panel.  Schneider is a multi billion $ company.  They don't want the paperwork..  

A sub panel is easy to check.  You can turn off the feeder breaker and completely deenergize the panel.   If you don't have plug on neutral AFCI or GRCI breakers then you have nothing to worry about.  Its only if you have current on the plug on neutral.  You can check the date code against the published numbers on Schneider Electric site.  

@kingrex

You said:

The NEC does not allow for reconditioning of a loadcenter, so you would need to pull the interior out of the panel can and replace it with new.

Jmho, 2020 NEC 408.8 (A) does not apply. This does not fall under the definition of Reconditioned.

Art 100, Reconditioned.

Reconditioned. Electromechanical systems, equipment, apparatus, or components that are restored to operating conditions. This process differs from normal servicing of equipment that remains within a facility, or replacement of listed equipment on a one-to-one basis.

 

Informational note: The term reconditioned is frequently referred to as rebuilt, refurbished, or, remanufactured.

The AHJ has the final say though.

My guess all that will need to be done, in most cases, is check the wire binding screw(s). First verify the screw screws freely in the lug’s threads then tighten and torque to specs. An Electrician will first look at the lug and the connection to the neutral bus rail before doing anything.

This work should not be performed by a non professional. It should only be performed by a Licensed Electrician. Failure to do so will more than likely release Square D, (Schneider Electric inc.), from any legal liability in the event of an electrical fire in the electrical panel.

Jim

.

@kingrex

I just had a 100 amp sub panel installed. Should I be concerned?

Thanks in advance.

JD

Jea, that is a very good point.  If the connection has indeed had arching occurring, it may well have weakened the molecule integrity of the materials and require replacement of the panel interior.  If the screw was not set and the metal got hot enough, even though you might feel you set it tight, it could crack/split the lug over time. 

 The NEC does not allow for reconditioning of a loadcenter, so you would need to pull the interior out of the panel can and replace it with new.  I'm pretty sure SqD would cough up the associated cost for such a change.  I think your out of luck getting paid for a service call that confirms the panel was correct from the plant.  

I spoke with a Square D engineer today.  He was somewhat bemused that no images of the screw are provided, nor is the torque of the screw.  He said he believes I am correct in what screw I show on my site.  He is going to get back to me on the torque.   

If your Square D QO Load Center panel is on the recall list I suggest you call an electrician to do the job. He will check all the neutral bar assembly connections for tightness, and proper torque.

If the electrical panel has been in use for a while and the binding screw(s) is not torqued properly and there has been heating in the connection the screw may resist being screwed in and may show it is torqued to specs but it really isn’t. A qualified licensed electrician knows how to check the screw to the tapped thread in the lug body to verify the screw is not seized in the lug body.

FWIW, Schneider electric should pay the Electrical Contractor/Electrician for his labor. Good luck getting paid...

A one hour service call charge should cover the cost.

Photo of binding screws

https://www.kingrexelectric.com/square-d-panel-recall

I have been on hold for 20 minutes trying to get the torque. 

This information can be given to an electrician. 

Homeowners shouldn't do this. 

Might have mentioned it's important to turn off the panel's main breaker before attempting to shove a screwdriver into the panel though.

😂😂😂

@kingrex,

Thanks! for the information

Mike

What happened to roxy54 candid response?😁

Exactly.   A loose screw.  This is an issue if not addressed. 

Fortunately its very easy to remedy. 

FWIW, I use these panels for audio.  As such, I don't use the plug on neutral..

  I use AFCI with tails to keep all my contact points cooper.  Never use aluminum wire in the audio chain.  .  Pigtails make the bar a mount only.  With breakers locked into it as a support, it won't fall out.  But used as a neutral is would suffer loose contact and arch at the connection point causing havoc with any appliance plugged into it.   It would also burn at the connection point but I highly doubt the arc would ever propagate out of the metal enclosure.  

PS - TBC:  Plug on neutral is older than 2 years.  I just meant the recall is from 2020.

Relatively small number of very recently sold panels:

Sold At:

Authorized Schneider Electric distributors and home improvement and hardware stores nationwide and online including Home Depot, Lowe’s, and Menard’s from February 2020 through January 2022 for between $90 and $1,660.

Plug-on-neutral panels are relatively new innovations that simplify the installation of CAFCI and GFCI breakers.  If your house is older than 2 years you don't have this problem.

From what the OP Is saying, it sounds like the panels left the factory with loose parts.

There has been a recall on certain Schneider electric service panels. Details here.