and Imam is the spiritual speaker...
Speakers sound best facing wall????
Should I complain? - After months of tweaking and testing various components, I found my perfect sound. It really sounds beautiful and genuine (I listen only to classical; and authenticity is paramount), and the stereo image is there, when speakers are turned away from me, facing the wall at 135 degrees. I am looking at their backs when listening,
So, I am really happy. Or should I? With that very odd speaker position, something must be very wrong somewhere???
Ever since I took on my old hobby again (it had been in neglect for 30 years), bought 2 different solid state amplifiers (a powerful and very well balanced Sony TA-FA3ES, and a lower quality Technics), 2 different cd players (Arcam and Cyrus), 2 different sets of loudspeakers (Heybrook Heylo and Tannoy Revolution), a Velodyne subwoofer, a power conditioner (Belkin) and 2 sets of shielded IEC power cables and interconnects, I have been battling a problem:
*****an ear-piercing treble*****
No matter how low I would adjust the treble on my amplifier, and no matter the combination of amps, cd players, speakers etc., their position, my armchair's position, that problem was still there... until I turned the speakers away from me.
Room acoustics? - Well, all my equipment is in my living room, which has a normal height, and an odd, asymetrical shape. See plan. The house is made of timber, and the walls are painted plaster panels, with 2 dozens glass covered pictures in wooden frames. The room is carpeted, and slightly emptier than an average living room (3 armchairs, 2 wooden cabinets and audio rack). The wall which the speakers are facing has a curtain. The speakers are 130cm / 4ft away from the wall.
If not the room acoustics, what may be causing the ear-piercing treble when speakers are turned towards me? - Dirty power that the power conditioner cannot cope with? Faulty tweeters (on 2 different sets of speakers???)? Should I worry, since I have my perfect sound with the speakers facing the wall? - Any advice appreciated!
So, I am really happy. Or should I? With that very odd speaker position, something must be very wrong somewhere???
Ever since I took on my old hobby again (it had been in neglect for 30 years), bought 2 different solid state amplifiers (a powerful and very well balanced Sony TA-FA3ES, and a lower quality Technics), 2 different cd players (Arcam and Cyrus), 2 different sets of loudspeakers (Heybrook Heylo and Tannoy Revolution), a Velodyne subwoofer, a power conditioner (Belkin) and 2 sets of shielded IEC power cables and interconnects, I have been battling a problem:
*****an ear-piercing treble*****
No matter how low I would adjust the treble on my amplifier, and no matter the combination of amps, cd players, speakers etc., their position, my armchair's position, that problem was still there... until I turned the speakers away from me.
Room acoustics? - Well, all my equipment is in my living room, which has a normal height, and an odd, asymetrical shape. See plan. The house is made of timber, and the walls are painted plaster panels, with 2 dozens glass covered pictures in wooden frames. The room is carpeted, and slightly emptier than an average living room (3 armchairs, 2 wooden cabinets and audio rack). The wall which the speakers are facing has a curtain. The speakers are 130cm / 4ft away from the wall.
If not the room acoustics, what may be causing the ear-piercing treble when speakers are turned towards me? - Dirty power that the power conditioner cannot cope with? Faulty tweeters (on 2 different sets of speakers???)? Should I worry, since I have my perfect sound with the speakers facing the wall? - Any advice appreciated!
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Note that many top pre's have di-pole designs or at least rear firing tweeters.Just thought I'd toss that in.Your speakers are probably to blame interacting with room.Treatments or a DSP might be what's in order to preserve what you like and get rid of what you don't.If you Thiel was your speaker I'd know problem.I sold Krell a while back and was blown away how bad one customers Thiels matched with Krell in a hard room sounded.But that's taste. Chazz |
The older Quad preamps had some very good tone controls, variable slopes at chosen frequencies , etc. The 44 is the last one I had and it was quite good at controlling bad rooms. I have not used the new ones but would suggest you investigate them. The 44 itself is not a bad preamp and I would prefer it to any of the equalizers I have heard in a remotely similar price range. If you can find a used 44 you could probably purchase it and resell it if it did not help without taking much of a loss. Only problem is that it requires DIN adapters. The Quads were famous for giving excellent sound for their cost and were aimed at music lovers rather than hi-fi enthusiasts per se. What I mean is that they thought it perfectly normal that the listener might need to adjust the sound for room or recording while the purest audiophile regards tone controls as invention of the devil. There are several pairs of their new amps and preamps on audiogon ; you might investigate them. They would definitely be softer than what you are now using. |
Waryn, From what you say, I'd say that your hearing is unusual. I have a friend who has the same kind of ultra-sonic hearing. He hears high-frequency sounds on certain of my CD's that drive him crazy. He asks me if I hear it too, and quite honestly I can't... not even a hint of what's bothering him. So I know this is possible. I think trying a tube amp may help you a lot, and beyond that, either a good equalizer (preferably analogue) or maybe using a preamp (or speaker) with a treble level control could provide a further tapered treble reduction that you could dial in to your taste. Good luck to you! |
Markphd wrote: *****Try putting the speakers forward facing with a cloth or some sort of semi-permeable film in front of the tweeter.***** I had tried that, and I had even placed pillows. The treble attenuation and general result is not as good as turning the speakers to the wall. Markphd wrote: *****I know a few psychologists who would enjoy having you as an experimental subject.***** No problem with me, I am happy to be a guinea pig... but I live in New Zealand (Auckland). Shadorne, thanks for the links to the hearing tests. I will try them but, since it seems I clearly hear ultrasounds at much higher pitch than what amps and speakers are designed to reproduce, it may not be significant. Will report on that nevertheless, once I figure out how to get them to work. |
Dynamic speakers produce sound waves when the cone moves backwards as well as when it moves forward. So in theory, you could place speakers front facing or back facing. However, speakers are designed and built to control the backwave. As a result, you're supposed to listen to speakers forward facing, or forward with a toe in. Try putting the speakers forward facing with a cloth or some sort of semi-permeable film in front of the tweeter. See what that does. I know a few psychologists who would enjoy having you as an experimental subject. Anybody whose perceptual abilities diviate from the population norm are interesting people to study. |
You need to see an ENT. Something could be wrong. It is absolutely NOT NORMAL (as you are aware) to prefer the sound with the speakers turned backwards. Your speakers are fine - you should not have a problem with Tannoy's. Do you have the same problem with a good pair of headphones? Youu can find online hearing tests too. |
Thanks for the input. I did try various positions in this room, and the ear-piercing treble is still there. The room is really average; there is nothing unusual about it. The odd shape should rather break any echo than create problems. I come to ask myself whether this could possibly be a physiological problem / abnormality with my ears. Indeed, I do have quite an odd spectrum: I can clearly hear ultrasounds, i.e. dog whistles, which no one else can normally hear (except dogs and furseals!). That does not bother me during live acoustic performances (symphony orchestra, chamber music), which I enjoy very much; but I do often perceive too much treble (ear-piercing) on audio systems, including in my car. In that case, maybe the tube suggestion is a good one. Maybe the ear-piercing treble I am hearing is a type of transistor distortion which is not normally audible to others. Tubes have a different distortion pattern, and that may suit my physiology better. You're right - I've got to be missing something by firing my speakers at the back wall. Here is a nice excuse to buy a tube amp. |
Hard to say... I'm not there to hear what you hear so I can only speculate. Since the speakers are not designed to be used that way, I'd say there is something wrong. My first reaction would be to blame the room. It may not be practical in your situation (I don't know), but I'd try putting the speakers on the left-hand wall instead. Have your listening seat along the fireplace wall. I don't know where all those 2-dozen pictures are placed, but if they're concentrated on a particular wall then that could be a big problem too. All that glass is highly reflective. On top of that, it looks like you're selecting gear with extended treble... Maybe a nice tube amp or preamp would help; or maybe an EQ, or speakers with a treble attenuator. You've got to be missing some part of the audible frequency range by firing your speakers backwards into a curtain. It's probably akin to listening from a different room, where the highs get tamed down a bit. I thought I'd take the counterpoint to Mimberman's answer just to offer another angle on it. |