Speakers for newbie
Hi there,well I definately stopped this thread in its tracks.How did you go,should I say what speaker are you thinking of.For me book shelf speakers are good for a small space,and then add a sub if you move to a bigger room.The p6 speakers are nice,probably good for a medium room,with the nautilus tweeter on top,they have good musical ability,but are getting on in age now,not that that is too much of a worry.Anyway welcome,there are worse things you can spend your money on.My current speaker that Im using is a kef ls50,and is pretty good,they suit my needs at the moment. |
Paradigm speakers - its hard to tell. They are not bad, I know this is not right term: but they sounded kind a "muddy" and flat. Just didn't grab me. I liked KEF Q700 much better even though they were in lower price range then Paradigm. I am sure Paradigm are fine speakers, the way they sound just didn't grab me. They also were missing lows. |
| Post removed |
Well, it's true that they both draw on research from Canada's National Research Council, but I think they have subtle but distinctive differences. To my ears, the Paradigms have a little more "boom 'n' sizzle" In fact, if you look at the Stereophile review's response curves of the Paradigm Studio 20 vs. the PSB Imagine B, you'll see that the Paradigm has a +4dB hump at 100-130 Hz (boom), a depression in the midrange from 1200-2000 Hz, and a rising upper midrange and treble (sizzle). By contrast, the PSB Imagine B is practically textbook flat, with no rises in the boom or sizzle regions, and no midrange suckout. Personally I like PSBs a lot and have never been able to cozy up to Paradigm for this very reason. I also really like GoldenEar for their smooth, fast, extended folded ribbon tweeter that's free of ringing and overshoot. |
if you could tell us what you didn't like about the Paradigm Signature Series (which model #?) and what sound you are trying to get out of a pr of speakers, we might be able to steer you some brands and models that you might like. My guess is that if you didn't like the Paradigm, you probably won't like the PSB, as both brands have a similar house sound. |
I agree with Richardyc. The Tekton Lores may be a great value in speakers, but they're not the best place for a newbie to start. He's better off auditioning as many recommended speakers as possible and homing in on what sounds right to him. This means excellent and well-distributed speakers such as Paradigm, PSB, Energy, Phase Technology, GoldenEar, B&W, etc., Buying mail order blind and then paying out the a$$ is it doesn't work out is not a great way to start. |
my point is that telling a newbie to buy a pr of internet direct speakers is not a good advise. Do you know Tekton's return policy? 15% restocking fee and you have to pay return shipping, and "Returned speakers must be in new condition – no signs of damage or abuse, including scratches, fingerprints, dust, etc. " this is a line directly from their website. good luck getting your money back if they find a speck of dust or "etc" on them. |
I have heard both the GoldenEar Triton Twos and the stand-mounted Aon 3's. While the Triton 3's are too much money at $3K, the Aon 3's come right in at the OP's budget at $999/pair. I heard them just this past February and they are fantastic at that price point--linear, clean, bass extension and clarity you wouldn't expect from that size enclosure, yet they would have no trouble filling an 18x22 room. Their specs rate them as 8-ohm compatible. They also put out 89 dB at 1w input, so your receiver should be OK with them. Frankly, however, the Aon 3's are so good you'd do well to move your electronics slightly up to the Marantz PM8004 integrated amp. *That* would be a great match. The Aon 3's are excellent in several ways, but the one that really distinguishes them at this price is their excellent motion transformer ribbon tweeter. It is so smooth and clean without the usual overshoot and ringing we have become so accustomed to in dome tweeters. Normally, you just don't get a ribbon tweeter with treble extension out to 35 Khz and no inertia artifacts in a $1K pair of speakers, but the GoldenEar Aon 3 *really* delivers. GoldenEar has many authorized dealers across the country, so auditioning them shouldn't be difficult and is highly recommended before you buy anything. |
Talk is cheap, people that recommend Tekton, I doubt that they've even seen a pr of Tekton in person, nevermind even listen to a pair.Sorry, not the case here as I have a friend that has a pair of Lores. Appears that the delay is due to high demand, http://tektondesign.wordpress.com/ . |
part of the fun is to go out and listen to as many pr of speakers as you can. Talk is cheap, people that recommend Tekton, I doubt that they've even seen a pr of Tekton in person, nevermind even listen to a pair. I've never heard of Tekton until few weeks ago in another forum due to issues with the owner, and delay with orders, so you might as well avoid them. |
You seem to know what you like and don't like, so I'd highly recommend getting out and hearing more speakers. Once you have a broader frame of reference it will make it much more likely you'll find "The One." And it's fun. That said, in case it wasn't mentioned earlier, I'll throw out the Silverline Preludes as a good option to audition if you can. Their Minuet monitors would also be good and are well below your budget new, but you may find yourself searching for a sub a little earlier. Best of luck and congrats on the new place. |
| Post removed |
With a room that size...you are going to need a sub with monitors...as they can get "lost" in large rooms...or an 8" driver or more floorstander...different opinions abound on which is better...since bass is often the Achilles heal of tower speakers...those opt for a sub...however...towers don't need stands (an often overlooked hidden cost)... and perform their best in larger rooms...a pair of older PSB golds would be very nice...and well under budget... |
Hi guys, we got the keys yesterday and moving in on Thursday :). As of the room: Its 18' x 24'. So I will be about 12 feet away from the front speakers. So i went to Magnolia and listened to couple what they had Martin Logan Motion 40, they were okay. From the B&W selection I like the CM9Â’s the best (but they are $1500 per speaker). Also I went to another shop and listened to KEF Q700, they sounded pretty good ( there is a pair being sold on audiogon web site, 40 miles away from me). So then I asked to listen to KEF R700 and they sounded 10 times better then Q700 :/. I also listend to R series that was bookshelf and did not like it at all. I liked better the B&W bookshelf. I think sound was more richer. I am reading a lot of good things about Tekton M-Lores and Lores (that are in my price range) and I am thinking about to pull the trigger on Lores. Do you think size of my room is adequate? Or should I go and listen to some more speakers? |
| Post removed |
After Bob's mention of the ATI amps, it kind of made something click in my head. I mentioned the NAD because that's what I started out with and many have had good luck with them. Still, as mentioned by many, there is a lot of good stuff to be had used. Just remember to be smart when buying and try to stick to reputable sellers. In any case, a quick search on ebay showed an ATI 1502 and an Aragon 2004 for sale. Either can be had for $400. I don't know about the ATI stuff, but I've been running an Aragon 2004 for a while now and I really love it. It's rated at 100 wpc at 8 ohms and 200 wpc at 4 ohms. I don't think it's ever broken a sweat with anything that I've hooked up to it. |
Not trying to hijack, but I have to ask about the ATI amp. Bob, how would you rank the ATI amps as compared to higher end amplifiers. I'm asking because I've seen some really good deals on the 1202 model and really not having much experience with them, just dismissed them, apparently out of ignorance. |
| Post removed |
| Post removed |
As far as amps go, considering your budget, I'd say look at some NAD amps. Some consider NAD to be poor man's hifi. You can pick up a pretty beefy NAD amp with 100+ wpc here and on ebay for a couple hundred bucks or there abouts. You might also want to check out some B&K amps. If you can scrape together another $1K, there's some nice stuff to be had here on the gon in the classifieds. I've been running my 20+ year old Aragon for a little while now and am starting to get the itch to try something new myself. |
I agree with Tbromgard and the Tektons. I have a pair of the m-lores I bought for surround speakers a few weeks ago, but I am enjoying listening to them as my main speakers. If you have a large room, the Lores would be a good choice. I have the m-lores in a 35' x 15' x 8' loft, and they fill the room with music. I even tried them in a second system with a Marantz 1603 receiver and they sounded very good. They also have surprisingly strong and deep bass for being so small. Very open sound, good with all types of music and not real fussy about placement. For $1000, you could also try a pair of Zu Omen speakers (they are having a 'Dirty Omen' sale with a pair of Omens for $999). They have a 60 home trial, so hard to go wrong there. |
Guys, I just want to thank you all for the great inputs. I really appreciate it. I feel like a little puppy left on huge farm haha. All of your suggestions are pretty smart and make sense. Only speakers I listened so far were B&W and Marti Logans @BB (also Klipsh and infinity but I didn't like the sound). I think I gotta go and listen some more. I am moving on 13th, when I move I will know exactly the layout of the room, how far speakers will be away from where we will sit etc etc. That will clear out some questions. I also like idea of getting 2 or 5 channel amps if more juice is needed for the speakers. Do you have any suggestions for new and used that would work well with my SR6006. Thx again, your expertise is greatly appreciated. |
Yeah, man. Go buy something and let us know how it sounds. I've gotta admit, the Lores have my interest, since I found out today that we're gonna have a spare room pretty soon. The only thing that bugs me is buying new, when in the situation that the OP is. Say he gets a pair of M-Lores at $650. He's paid $650 plus, what, $100 in shipping? Now say he doesn't like them. What's he gonna get for them. $400 plus shipping? Now say he buys a pair of B&W 685s for around $450, used and he doesn't like them. He'll likely get his money back, if he sells them. |
| Post removed |
| Post removed |
First, I am a believer that one should fix their sights on a pair of spekaers they love and then get the amp to properly match and drive those speakers. Unfortunately, you are doing it the other way as you already have the amp. If your heart is set on B&W, thats OK. The good news is you have a full set of pre-outs on your SR6006 allowing you to add an external power amp to drive whatever pair of speakers you end up getting. A separate amp with a solid 100 wpc of high current power should get the job done with about 90% of the speakers out there, regardless of impedence. A decent amp will cost about $800-$900 new and used for alot less. So go out and listen to speakers and decide which one sounds best to you. Then drive it with your Marantz and see how they perform. If the Marantz doesn't make them sing to your satisfaction, you have the comfort of knowing you can seamlessly add a power amp to your system. |
4zoranss, Man, I'm not trying to give you the impression that I know it all. I don't. All I'm saying is that A/V receivers generally aren't built to cater to two channel listening with full range speakers. Most people get small surround monitors and cross them over at 80hz or higher and let a sub do all of the heavy work, so that the receiver doesn't have to. I know that weight isn't a very technical yard stick to use to measure an amp's performance, but I've found that when an amp is heavy, it's usually indicative of a good size power supply, which your unit doesn't have. My only fear for you is that you might wind up with a pair of speakers that really need power to get good sound and any kind of volume out of them. This will have you pushing your amp. What kills speakers usually isn't power, but distortion and distortion is what you get when you push an amp to do something that it wasn't meant to do. If I was in your shoes, I'd be looking at a set of speakers that present a stable 8 ohm load to the amp. When you look at reviews or tech specs, pay attention to the impedance curves. Some speakers are rated at 8 ohms, but can dip down to around 4 ohms when playing music. I'd also be looking for something that is fairly efficient, say in the high 80db range. I really can't recommend anything for you because I've had to stick to small monitors, due to kids and space limitations. Right now, I'm running Silverline Minuets. They are pretty efficient and don't need much power, but they are SMALL and likely not what you're looking for. Perhaps you might want to look into the Zu Omen line of speakers. They are rated at 98db efficiency and present, I believe, a 12 ohm load. You can, at times, find factory second Zu speakers on ebay at a good savings. Of course, all of this is really just for the sake of discussion. The fact of the matter is that no one here can tell you what's going to sound the best in your home. Quit tearing your hair out and don't treat this as though it's going to be a life altering decision. Stick to the used market and get something that you think you'd like. As long as you buy smart and stick with quality, selling them won't be a problem. |
Just because your amp is rated at 8 ohms does not necessarily mean it can't drive a 6 ohm or even a 4 ohm speaker safely--particularly if you're not planning to crank it up to maximum volume. It might be worth contacting Marantz (or a good dealer) directly to inquire whether there is truly threat of damage if you use lower impedance speakers. It might open up your speaker options considerably. |
http://app.audiogon.com/listings/full-range-focal-jm-labs-chorus-716-great-sound-reasonable-price-2013-05-11-speakers-80120 http://app.audiogon.com/listings/full-range-revel-performa-s30-in-great-condition-black-2013-05-19-speakers-55016-cottage-grove-mn http://app.audiogon.com/listings/full-range-proac-d15-cherry-incredible-speakers-in-great-shape-2013-05-22-speakers-10956 Among a million others. How far away from the speakers will you be, and how big is the room? |
| Post removed |
I've always been a fan of Totem speakers and would recommend checking out their options. In particular, a pair of Arros would make excellent fronts which you could later combine with a set of Dreamcatchers or Mites and a Storm sub to make a full 5.1 system. Arros routinely come up used on Audiogon for around $700-800. If you can stretch your budget a bit more, a pair of used Hawks for you fronts would be even better. |
4zoranss, If I was you, I'd be looking at used speakers. That way, you can try them and if you don't like them you can sell them at a minimal loss. You said that you have a medium sized room. Is this going to be a dedicated listening room or a family room. If you're only going to be sitting 7 or 8 feet from the position of the speakers, you may be better off going with a pair of nice monitors, since you already have a sub. There is such a thing as having too much speaker. |
