Speaker upgrade question - Wilson vs Focal

I compared the Focal Scala to Wilson Sasha back to back with the same electronics and room and preferred the the Wilson Sasha.  The Focal was too forward and in my face.  Actually got a headache within 30 minutes every time I tried over a few days.  I tried repositioning and tried to like them but failed.  I kept the Wilson Sasha which is laid back , dynamic , visceral and does bass with impact together with natural mids and tops.  I haven’t heard the Focals and Wilson’s you refer to. Hope this helps

Alpha, these are all good points however, your electronics might have favored the Wilsons over the Focal Lascala. 

Also the Focals of today sound way better then the earlier versions of these speakers same with the Wilsons. 

It is also possible that you might have been able to get the  Focal's to sound better but that would have meant you were charmed enough with some of their sonic attributes to make a few changes with cabling, sources or electronics.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

Hi go for wilson sasha's mk 2, great speakers, i have a pair, i have seen them go for £17000, great bargain great sound, 

Before you buy, just for fun, listen to a properly set up Sound Lab Majestics or Ultimates for your room size/configuration and price range, (even if you have heard QUADs, MLs or Magnepans and don't care for them....not the same thing)

@graystoke, good advice considering how well they hold their price.

Try the Eminent Technology 8bs and a pair of REL  G1 subs, there is a combo will make other aforementioned brands sound like a carbon copy of music IMHO....

Try the Focal Scala Utopia EVO, they are closer in price to the Sasha DAW and should be better than the Sopra 3.

...or try to get a pair of second-hand Apogee Full Range model in good shape, sell your Mcintosh gear, and get a brand new VTL MB-185 mk3 EL-34 tube based amps and  either the Bespoke passive preamp (I think about 9 grand), or SMSL D1 dac/preamp (a phenomenal dac on its own, plus great preamp section) at $1300 from Amazon. Use the D 1 from the balanced outputs into the VTL monoblocks.... Discover the new dimension in reproduced music  :)

I compared the Focal Scala to Wilson Sasha back to back with the same electronics and room and preferred the the Wilson Sasha.  The Focal was too forward and in my face.  Actually got a headache within 30 minutes every time I tried over a few days.  I tried repositioning and tried to like them but failed.  I kept the Wilson Sasha which is laid back , dynamic , visceral and does bass with impact together with natural mids and tops.  I haven’t heard the Focals and Wilson’s you refer to. Hope this helps

That's what I liked about the Wilson's as well, the natural sound and slightly more relaxed approach. 

Might want to consider looking at some of the previous generation big Wilsons, which are probably a tad less in the used market than the DAWs. Maxx3, or even Grand Slamm if you came across them. The drivers for the Sasha were taken from the Maxx3......

Hi go for wilson sasha's mk 2, great speakers, i have a pair, i have seen them go for £17000, great bargain great sound,

I have been thinking that, but honestly, the changes they made to the Sasha DAW compared to the Sasha 2 is pretty substantial.   

Thanks for all the help. I found a great set of Sasha Daws for an amazing deal so I went with that.

enjoy the new Daw they are the best Wilsons we have heard in a long time. What will you be using for the rest of the system?


Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

enjoy the new Daw they are the best Wilsons we have heard in a long time. What will you be using for the rest of the system?

McIntosh mc 452 for power
Preamp McIntosh c2600

Sources -
1) McIntosh mt10 with clearaudio talisman v2 cartridge
2) Sony Hapz1es with modwright truth mod 
3) McIntosh t450 transport
4) Allo one signature for tidal ( to be replaced by lumin or ayrender later)

I mostly use the turntable.

 A couple of years ago I was shopping for speakers and found myself at Paragon sight and sound and managed to listen to three sets of the smaller Wilson speakers all powered by Mac gear. I thought they all sounded very good. I didn’t like the B&W’s, the Sonus Faber’s I heard we’re pretty nice too. The best I heard we’re the Wilson Alexia 2’s with the D’Agostini amps and other very high end gear and cables in a great room. My budget was around 10k and I ended up buying Aerial 7t’s, because of the price, the sound and the look.

By the way my Aerial 7t’s sound very good with my Mac 452.

I heard a pair of Sasha DAWs powered by ARC monos and while amazing looking, Didn’t blow me away. That system was 33x the price of my system and maybe 25% better (mostly in the bass).

the same place had these $5k Linn speakers and those left an impression.

if you can get a demo pair of yvette’s in a good color for 15k i suggest that you might consider jumping on it. the speaker is all about music as it should be. many reviewers(fwiw) have called it the best wilson yet considering price/performance ratio. if it’s boring to you as mentioned above i think you must have a very dark system which is boring. i’ve never heard wilson’s called boring.

Congratulations on your new speakers. I've heard these speakers a few times with ARC driving them and they sounded very good IMO.

if you can get a demo pair of yvette’s in a good color for 15k i suggest that you might consider jumping on it. the speaker is all about music as it should be. many reviewers(fwiw) have called it the best wilson yet considering price/performance ratio. if it’s boring to you as mentioned above i think you must have a very dark system which is boring. i’ve never heard wilson’s called boring.

Too late. Pulled the trigger on the DAWs, though the deal I got was better than the one for the Yvette. So I can't complain. 

would love to have the daw’s. great long term choice

I will say those Wilson's are a sharp contrast to Usher. I was going to recommend the BE-20 DMD's... from organic to space age tho'. If you like the look of one you're not going to like the looks of the other. Enjoy the Wilson's The demo's I heard at axpona were all very good.

@riaa

i haven't bashed them. Just that given they cost more than any 2 cars I’ve ever owned I wasn’t impressed. And trust me, I’m FAR from the only one who feels Wilson is WAY overrated. 

I trust my ears. I was excited to hear them as I’d never had the chance and was, at one time, looking to go with ARC amplification. Did they sound bad? Nope. Was it mind blowing? Definitely not. Considering the price I wanted to be blown away. Came away disappointed in that regard.

I think you need to get off your golden golden toilet and join reality.

@ riaa_award_collectors_on_facebook you have the sensibilities of one that is socially challenged yet equally offensive at the same time.  Elitist audiophiles rule!

Coming from somebody in SF I can understand you taking offense. We don't suffer fools in the Northeast. If telling it like it is makes one socially challenged then so be it. Im in good company.

Gentlemen, let's please keep it civil. You are both entitled to your opinion, but let's keep insults and unnecessary jabs to a minimum. It is juvenile and we are better than that.  

Now, I can agree with @RIAA the experience I had listening to the Sashas DAWs were very different compared to what GoChurchGo may have been heard. None of us have the same ears, so honestly speaking we do all hear differently and can have completely different preferences. Especially since we are no doubt not comparing the same music on the same sources.

For instance, I was listening to them on D'Agostinos and then on Mcintosh C2600/MC452, which I felt was a much better amp and preamp to use. I am not a huge fan of the ARC amps, and when I heard them before I was not impressed with how they drove the speakers. But that is my opinion. 

On that note, @GoChurchGo, might be worth listening to the Sashas again with a different amp/preamp just to see if it was the source and power that was not ideal. I am very surprised that your experience was so different compared to mine. 

Regardless, I appreciate the input from everyone, including negative feedback on particular brands, because that helps me think about the decision critically and not get swept away in emotion, or looks, or the opinion of the audio dealer, who has skin in the game. Thanks again, everyone. 

I’ve done extensive listening to Sasha DAW and it is an amazing speaker. In fact I’m ordering a pair next week. You will find so many people commenting on the Wilson sound but be careful because the DAW and the newer generation is a totally different animal. VERY smooth and detailed. Not the kind of detail that is bothersome but the kind that draws you in and captivates your soul. It is very neutral and can sound however you want it to depending on your equipment and cabling.  I was never a big fan of Wilson until the DAW now I can’t get enough. I guess I’ll have to bring them home.  Haven’t heard the focal but have been comparing the Rockports to the new Wilson’s.  Wilson builds a great speaker and is a great company. Good luck on your search

@mepstein10 Perhaps it was the wrong choice of amplification. You might be right. But I stand by what I heard. They also sell Mac, Naim (which were running some WAMMS in another room), Burmeister and Linn. So why that pairing is not a question I can answer.

I regret some disrespectful members took aim at my criticism in your thread. But again, I stand by my experience.

I hope you get a fantastic pair of speakers in whichever direction you choose to go.

g

@gochurchgo

You mentioned in your above post that they have Naim running some Wamms in another room. Were you referring to those giant flagship Wilson Wamm? Cause I don’t think there’s a single dealer that will have the Wilson Wamm on display for demo due to the price and size of these speakers. These are statement loudspeakers from Wilson Audio and are only made 50 pairs for the whole world. They retail for $685k per pair. The Wilson Wamms are cost-no-object or price-no-object design loudspeakers.

When you said the Naim driving the Wamms, were those the Naim Statement preamp & monoblock amps? I would imagine those must have been the Naim Statement gears driving the Wilson Wamm speakers if they were indeed the Wamm. Those Wilson Wamm deserve to be paired with something like the Naim Statement preamp & monoblock amps combo, which are also cost-no-object or price-no-object design preamp & amps. If they were indeed the Wilson Wamm driven by the Naim Statement preamp & monoblock amps, did you get to hear them? How did they perform? What front end source components did they use for the setup?

I myself happen to own the Naim Statement NAC S1 preamp & Naim Statement NAP S1 monoblock amps driving the Magico M6 speakers in my reference stereo setup/system. The Naim Statement gears are the absolute best and most musical sounding gears I’ve ever heard and owned, they are very very expensive but extraordinary, highly musically engaging and involving.
All Naim gears are spectacular.

I'm a big Naim fan. I also have the Naim Uniti Nova integrated in my bedroom setup running the Sonus Faber 1 bookshelf (standmount) speakers. The Naim Uniti Nova is basically a digital music streamer/DAC/integrated amp all in a single chassis. It is an all-in-one solution or a single box solution. All you need is a pair of speakers and speaker wires. 
The Uniti Nova comes equipped with built-in Tidal streaming app and is Roon ready. 

There’s hardly any Naim dealer in the world who would these Naim Statement preamp & monoblock amps on display for demo due to the cost or price of these Naim Statement preamp & amps. These are cost-no-object or price-no-object design gears and took almost 10 years in the designing and making of these Naim Statement products. I would imagine the Wilson Wamm / Naim Statement combo will provide the absolute best overall end sonic results and musicality period.

Carey the Wilson and the Rockports are both excellent loudspeakers.

The new DAW do seem to sound way better than previous versions, we have never been big WIlson Fans, the DAW at Axpona in one room with ARC was a fantastic setup, the room was very long which really helped.

The Rockports were in a couple of room but all of these rooms were much smaller.

Previously felt that the Wilsons did not have the uber resolution that we tend to like. The Rockports do seem to have a bit more detail. Both speakers produce excellent bass with a bit more lower bass boom in the Wilsons.

The best speakers for the money at Axpona was the new Vimbergs from Tidal. They were amazing, huge sound stage. deep bass, totally three dimensional, the most realistic portrayal of a piano at the entire show was with the Vimbergs, to us they felt like a blend of the best of both of th3 Wilsons and the Rockports speakers you can also get them with a pure diamond tweeter, this is the world’s best high frequency transducer, smooth yet detailed.

Before I would purchase anything I would seek out a pair.

Tidal is known for extraordinary attention to detail and superb craftsmanship.

One interesting tidbit is Jeff Fritz from Sound stage moved from Rockport to the Tidal Vimbergs for his new listening room. 

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

Audiotroy-Are the Vimbergs as easy to drive as a Lumenwhite Kyara or the powered Von Schweikert VR55K? Those are two speakers which I think could replace my Legacy Focus. My room size has decreased to 19’ X 15’ X 10’ net listening area with 17" thick, sound engineered walls/doors/no other openings for smooth bass reproduction down to 30 Hz. The Kyara and Von Schweikert larger speakers I heard were outstandingly great sounding. Are the Vimberg’s nearly as good for half the price?

Speakers I would not consider are B&Ws, Magicos or Wilsons. Power hogs to boot.

Fleschler, an active speaker is always going to be easy to drive vs any conventional passive loudspeaker. 

The Vinberg sounded better than the Kyara at Axpona, and costs  less. it was hard to really gauge the Kyara at Axpona vs the Vimbergs because the rooms were so different but our experience with hearing Lumenwhite at various shows they sounded very good, but not as amazing sounding as the Vimbergs, the setup at Axpona with the Vimbergs was extraordinary. 

Other than the image height, the Vimbergs were the match of any of the really expensive loudspeakers at the show. 

Even though the Vimberg and Lumenwhites  are very similar loudspeakers in terms of drivers, totally different crossover designs and cabinet construction in terms of pricing the Vimbergs are less expensive and their are two different sized versions for different sized rooms. 

The  smaller Mimo at $29k would be ideal for your size room.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

I read on the stereo-magazine issue 20 technical review that the Mino has a DC resistor at 4 ohms but is nearly ruler flat 5 to 7 ohm speaker at 89.4 db SPL. Looks easy to drive with a 130 w. tube monoblocks. Also, it is -3db at 37Hz.  My new audio room was built to maintain a 30Hz cycle flat, then dissipate below (the custom audio room is built to the highest standards for listening use only $175,000).    The Tonda has larger woofers and mid-woofer.   It is reportedly priced at $29,000  (the Mino at $23,000).  I suspect the Tonda would be a better fit.  I have no technical specs on it other than it is 1 db more efficient but 10% more difficult to drive at 3.7 ohm minimum.  Still, easy for my amps.   Have you heard the Von Schweikert V55K active?  If you have, how does it compare to the Vimbergs?  The Luminwhites are from a smaller company.  I would prefer a larger company's products in case a driver failed.   Thanks

Focal all day everyday.
The most important part of a speaker is the driver, and Focal drivers > Wilson drivers.

Ive never liked wilsons despite hearing them countless times.  So between those two the focals would win handily, but maybe we have different taste.  In that price bracket I would really be looking at Sonus Fabers or Vandersteens but thats my taste and my dollars.  

Frostdotcomm,

The newer Wilson’s are quite good and are way more musical then earlier versions of the speakers.

However,

The Focal tweeter is both smooth and detailed especially in the latest versions, they have more air and upper octave presence than the Wilsons, the lastest EVO series also has a stunning midrange.

So if you lean towards greater clarity with a less defined soundstage Focal

If you lean towards more warmth in the midrange, less upper octave air, a bigger soundstage, with a bit more focused image Wilson.

Personally we would not go with the Sonus or the Vandersteen over either of these speakers.

The Sonus sound like a better cabineted Wilson without the exciting presentation, and the Vandys are just too laid back without the detail or excitiement of either the Wilsons or the Focals.

For the record we sell none of the above.

We did hear the latest Sonus and The Vandy Quattro CT and the Vandy 7 at the Axpona, 

The Wilson's sounded fantastic, the Sopras were good, the Focal Evo Grande Utopias were amazing if the current smaller Scalas sound like a smaller Grande Utopia that is one hell of a loudspeaker and way better than the older versions as we've said before the Vimbergs were also extremely impressive. 

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

I have Usher BE20s with the upgraded GR Research crossover and they are stellar IMO. They will be up for sale replaced by the much more expensive Vivid Giya G2 S2s. I demo'd Wilson, Vandersteen, Focal, TAD, etc. and the only 2 brands that "beat" the Ushers were the Vandersteen 6 and Vivid Giyas (at 2x+ the Usher's price). Ping me if you are interested, at <$10K used they are one of the best to my ears.

Whatever you decide, do not buy the older Wilson speakers with the awful inverted tweeter. 

Have been searching for new speakers to replace my 14 year old Avalon Opus. Finally it has come down to Rockport Atria IIs and Wilson Yvette's.

I had the Rockports for a 3 week in home audition. The tweeters burned my ears off. So much, that I went to an ear specialist and had a hearing test. A little loss of high frequencys but at age 68, quite normal.

I have had the Yvette's for 4 days in home and cannot find faults.I expect to have the Yvette's for 2 weeks. As I tweak their position, They just get better.

My Pass 160.8s have no problem driving them. I think these will be my keepers.

I own the Utopia Evo Scala, which continue to evolve over time.  At first I thought I'd made a mistake chasing gear, but as time went on, they are becoming much more musical and less aggressive, especially in the treble. I came from Sonus Faber, and while they were very musical and on the warm side of neutral, I wanted more attack, separation and a natural sound.  And I think I've found that in my Focals.  An important note is you have to pair it with the right gear.  With Luxman, no bueno, Krell and Lampizator OMG.  I think SS amp and tube pre is the way to go.  BTW, the Sopra line is also fantastic.  Wilsons, I've never been a fan as they are exciting at first like getting into a hotrod, but then that fatigue sets in and you don't have that ease.  I do remember that the DAW had crazy bottom end, tight and deep and wide like the way I like my women, lol.