hi shadorne:
i think you are ignoring the obvious. i exchew cone speaker designs. i realize others like them. i just have a hard time fathoming why they are so popular, given their faults. i will never buy one . |
i still can't understand how anyone can get excited by cones. i have never heard a full range all-cone speaker that i have liked. That is quite a strong statement. Have you had your hearing tested lately? I think most everyone would agree that it is easy to get excited about many a good panel, good ribbons, good horns or good cone speakers. Sure there are differences and advantages and disadvantages to each approach - but among high quality speakers for us average tin eared folks like myself there is a lot of great stuff out there to get excited about. |
I think (all speaker companies) needs to start making AlNiCo Drivers again. They are a few that are using them now and are getting BEST OF SHOW AWARDS too! www.stereomojo.com/RMAF%202008/RMAF2008BESTOFSHOW.htm |
Cone materials, surrounds,spiders, cone shapes, crossover parts, cabinet designs, binding posts sets, internal dampening all have improved for transducers tweeters have made the most progress. But your legacy is not obsoleted by any of these if you still enjoy them that's all that maters. Use them for 5 more years than maybe give thought to upgrades. |
I would agree with Revel. They have invested a huge amount of R & D into their line in the last 5 years. Just not affordable for the casual consumer.
I would say another interesting story is the cross-over of the pro studio community to the consumer marketplace. Companies like ATC, Benchmark and Bryston engaging both communities with exceptional products. |
I think Revel has made huge advances in the last 15 years. Take a hard look at the Salon, Studio and F series speakers. They are an outstanding value used and new products are selling at heavily discounted prices in todays climate. |
there have been some advances in ribbon and electrostatic panel technology, as exemplified by the newer martin logan panels and piega concentric tweeter/midrange drivers, respectively.
i still can't understand how anyone can get excited by cones. i have never heard a full range all-cone speaker that i have liked.
i did like an earlier gradient speaker, with an open baffle midrange and jordan modules as tweeter. |
There have been some advances in materials. Carbon fiber and Kevlar have been successfully used, for example. Carbon nanotubes are used by a few, although there are other materials that exhibit the same properties. Meanwhile, some who have tried metal dome tweeters have moved away from them.
Cabinet design and construction have evolved as well - they're not just making simple boxes. Crossovers, internal wiring, binding posts and other hardware are given more attention, and rightfully so. |
The marketplace has changed radically, with fewer multi-national electronic companies dominating the space by offering audiophile components across the equipment spectrum. You rarely see the hold that the Japanese had several decades ago.
In many ways, it is going more the way of a cottage industry, with specific companies offering limited but succinct products by American, Canadian, Danish, and English firms. I think DeVore and Harbeth are in this vein--very focused range of speakers made by small operations.
I see most of the R & D being invested in DAC technology, with very few significant improvements in speaker design.
With that said, I think that price to performance is still available to the end user with limited means--there are wonderful budget oriented speakers in the market at the moment: B & W 685s and DALI Lektors come to mind that offer real world sound for the budget-minded. |
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Even if speaker design were to stand still, there are so many designs out there now it would take more than one lifetime to explore them all in your own room. If you could manage to do that, then just change the room and start all over again. |
The design & component quality of the Crossover and build quality of the Drivers are key. This separates great speakers from the mediocre and is, or should be, the reason why you would want to replace your present speakers. All Drivers, regardless of make, face the same fate: sagging voice-coils which occur after 10-15 years of use. If there is a perceived difference now in how your speakers sound you could have the same Drivers refurbished and approximate the same quality of sound reproduction as when the speakers were new. |
Trelja, All that you say may be true and probably is, and I just came late to the party, but I have been astonished by the clarity brought to some boxes by introduction of tweeters like a properly integrated Dynaudio Esotar. I must admit I don't miss my Quads much anymore (I've still got them in the closet in case I get angst ridden). :-) |
I definitely agree with the above. Most of the focus these days is on the cosmetic. Bookmatched veneers, piano gloss finish, and jewel-like binding posts are what seems to attract too many buyers.
The best drivers have improved, but a lot of that has been negated by the fading away of folks who understand crossovers, which are more important than the actual drivers themselves.
I have a few friends who build speakers, and in all honesty, their knowledge of crossovers is almost nonexistent. One has a design that was given to him, and despite making other changes to the speaker, he steadfastly refuses to change the crossover, as he simply doesn't understand them. Sadly, most folks are afraid of mathematics these days, and that holds things back.
From a technical standpoint, we've more or less returned to a long ago time. Gone are the days when the likes of designs like Quad, Magneplanar, Apogee, and Ohm are on the horizon. |
I am not sure speaker tech has advanced exponentially like sources for instance.I would say the incredible prices are mostly cosmetic like stuff any cabinet maker can duplicate.The quality oldies are still covering 90% of what you can hear,YMMV,Bob |
I read Entrope's response above with a smile. I just rebuilt my 32 year old New Large Advents I bought new in '77 - crossovers and refoam. I was suprised at how good they sound. I hear a little less coherence than on more expensive speakers but, ya know, the thing is, I believe it's mostly the 1/2" mdf cabinets that are really their only weakness. From my experience with the rebuild, I would say nearly all the improvements in speakers are in the cabinetry. I bet those Advents would sound real good with solid, well-braced cabinets. I knew a dealer who said he could tell how good a speaker was by rapping his knuckles on the cabinet and nothing more. I tend to believe think there's something to that. |
Speaker technology went down hill after they Stoped making AlniCo Drivers! www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=28617 |
still putting drivers in boxes..you haven't missed much |
Active Speakers have become more popular (this design topology has a lot of advantages in terms of lower distortion, better accuracy and eliminating the interface crap shoot issues between finding the right amp to suit a given speaker).
Speaker transducer technology has not really advanced in any significant way, although more is made in China so thinsg keep getting cheaper (if you are prepared to keep your fingers crossed about the quality control - remember speakers are never tested by consumers to confirm that they conform to manufacturer's claimed standards and it is easy to make ONE good sounding speaker t odeliver to a reviewer but harder to mass produce them with consistent performance) |
So what I am hearing, please correct me if I am wrong, that there has not been leaps in speaker technology say compare to CD players over the years.
Then the true improvements in speaker technology is more dependent upon the source. Since those sources have dramatically improved that combination along with speakers technology has contributed to the most improvement in overall sound quality?
Has the been any speaker company that has made a huge difference in sound quality? |
The biggest advance in speaker technology has been the unbelievable increase in the ability of speaker companies to get audiophiles to spend money. The last 4 pairs of "NEW" speakers I have purchased have been used. I am picking up my latest Sunday. I have now worked my way up to 2000. My advice is either keep what you have if you like them or to buy used speakers, ones formerly on Stereophile's recommended list are a good place to start. |
I just refoamed and sold a pair of 35 year old Advent/1 speakers. The original crossovers were left in tact along with original tweeters. In testing them I was surprised and impressed with their neutrality and coherence. In the short testing I did they semmed only to lack in detail and at the frequency extremes. |
I think most of the advances are at the micro improvement level in speaker technology. The bigger improvements have been in playback technology, both analog and digital.
A good pair of Klipschhorns, Martin Logans, Tannoys, Magnepans, Quads, Paradigms, B & W, Vandersteens, they still sound stellar.
IMHO. |
Speakers are always dependent on the source. Always. Garbage in, garbage out.
But that said, speakers have the greatest difference in sound from design to design and design is a moving target. Driver design has changed some and I think there are drivers available now that were not in the early 90's but that deoesn't mean that there weren't some excellent speakers available then which are still excellent speakers, by any standards, today. Subsequent speaker refinement has been incremental, not earth shaking. FWIW, my favorite speakers were designed in 2004 and possessed a quality in both resolution AND frequency response that did not previously exist (at least I had not heard, or heard about).
Bottom line, if you still love to listen to your Legacy's be happy! If you are not happy, there are lots of viable alternatives. |
IMO you have to answer that by comparing advances across speakers at equivalent price points then and now. I think designers have a very good picture of frequency response and depending on the sound they are going for will be forever tweaking driver placement in all three dimensions and crossovers, not much new there. If there is one area where speaker technology continues to advance is in the materials. Treatment of the drivers -B&W using kevlar and Monitor Audio with its gold tweeters, cabinets being made out of new composite materials and improved feet/spikes all looking to remove unwanted resonance. The added benefit of new materials is that most decent quality speakers today will likely last much longer than say speakers from the 70-80's with their degrading foam around woofers, cracking butyl rubber and cabinet vibration that occurred as some types of glues/adhesives aged. |
