Speaker match for PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium HP Integrated?

stereo5,
Let me know when you get your new speakers.
We can discuss possible transaction.
Not completely sure at the moment but have been known to change my mind several times a day where audio gear is concerned. :/
Might be just the ticket. What I'm after is even response with higher sensitivity. Triton 2 are 91 dB I think.
Thank you.
:)

4 ohm tap sounds better to me in my system as well.
I use triode mode for certain styles of music(acoustic guitar, vocal oriented) and UL for other (more complex).
Personally I don’t go by graphs, I go by what my ears tell me. For me the stock Chinese tubes in the center slots were my issue with my amp. (Dialogue Premium Integrated)
Most importantly I am glad your enjoying what you hear now.

Plugged the Revel 206 back in using 4 ohm tap and triode mode (based on those measurements, should be the best options), and now I wonder what I was thinking. Only someone with audiophilia nervosa (me?) wouldn't be pretty happy with what I am hearing now. Thanks everyone for all the comments.

any of the smaller tower (for your room size)and the stand mounted Proac speakers always sound wonderful with tubes. AudioNote speakers are very nice with tubes and designed for corner placement so giving you more room to play with.  just two off the top of my head.

I misrepresented what George had said on a different thread.

I’m sorry I showed the bench tests/reports for the PrimaLuna DiaLogue Premium power amplifier. JA said:

"As AD found in his auditioning, the PrimaLuna DiaLogue Premium performs at its best with KT120 output tubes operated in Triode mode. However, that high output impedance, and the rise in distortion when the load impedance drops below the nominal output-transformer tap value, will make careful matching with the user’s loudspeakers mandatory to get the best sound from this well-made amplifier.—John Atkinson"

Read more at https://www.stereophile.com/content/primaluna-dialogue-premium-power-amplifier-measurements#GTpdQTrF...

But looking at the graph the Dialogue Premium Integrated is also overshooting on square waves with any capacitance loading as well in Ultralinear, from the 8ohm taps not to mention distortion rises much so as well above 10khz.

https://www.stereophile.com/images/1214PLDPIfig02.jpg

https://www.stereophile.com/images/1214PLDPIfig03.jpg

https://www.stereophile.com/images/1214PLDPIfig13.jpg

https://www.stereophile.com/content/primaluna-dialogue-premium-hp-integrated-amplifier-measurements

Cheers George

Stereo5...................
Would consider that.
Where are you located?
I am in San Diego area.
Thanks.

Scott,
Thank you for providing the correct measurements.
I guess I would say that ultralinear sounds pretty forward / edgy with the Zu.
Probably has something to do with the bump at 2K-4K Hz that Kenny mentioned. With the Revel, ultralinear mode sounds more acceptable, but still a little forward / edgy maybe. Gonna take a look at some of the speakers suggested.
@stereo5, Had been thinking Triton 2+. Actually had those with this amp and it sounded pretty amazing. But I decided off axis with the ribbon tweeter was a problem, so I swapped for the Revel. Kinda wish I still had the Tritons.

Sorry for creating confusion re: measurements for HP vs HP integrated. I kinda assumed they would be about the same so I misrepresented what George had said on a different thread.

@aniwolfe I double-checked the reviews, and the HP integrated does not seem to have the issues cited in the previous thread. The Dialogue Premium amp has the issues (not the HP, it appears that the HP amp has not been reviewed by Stereophile):

https://www.stereophile.com/content/primaluna-dialogue-premium-power-amplifier

The integrated HP has a significantly lower output impedance and flat tops and bottoms of square waves in the testing:

https://www.stereophile.com/content/primaluna-dialogue-premium-hp-integrated-amplifier

The HP integrated has received a lot of positive reviews, and I don’t recall any commenting on brightness, which is why you might consider looking elsewhere in your system for the issue.

Just my 2 cents, Scott

For 5K, Golden Ear Triton Ones and for 3500 a pair of Golden Ear Triton 2+.  Since the Golden Ears have built in woofer amps, you would only be driving the 2 midrange drivers and the folded ribbon tweeter.

@georgehifi 

Which link is for the Integrated Amp?
You know that we are not talking about the Power Amp on this thread?

You may want to take a look at my FritzSpeakers Carbon 7SE model which are below your budget.  With the smooth series crossovers they are very easy to drive even with low powered tube amps.  Conventional crossover impedance curves usually look like a mountain range with large peaks and valleys.  With a tube amp, this will result in an uneven frequency response with bumps and suck-outs due to the fact that tube amps will deliver more power to the frequencies with the higher impedance peaks.

http://fritzspeakers.com/Images/speakers/Carbon7SEimpedancePhaseGraph900.jpg

fritzspeakers.com/DreamWeaverFritzImpedancePage.asp

Disclaimer- I'm Fritz, the builder of FritzSpeakers

I didn't post any here, they are on another thread. And John Alexander backs it in his measurement conclusion.
https://forum.audiogon.com/posts/1425159

Cheers George

 

@georgehifi 

George lets get this right. What are the graphs for the integrated amps? Thanks

Actually, I think we're confusing two different models with the measurements on the ringing.  If I'm not mistaken, the Stereophile measurements cited in the previous post were taken with the Dialogue Premium Amp, not the "HP" version and not the integrated.  

The Premium HP integrated was also reviewed by Stereophile, and it was given a pretty clean bill of health.  JA says it measured well for a P/P amp using EL34s.  That's not to say that you don't hear brightness, but it might be elsewhere in the system if you have the Integrated HP.

Best, Scott

With the Prima Luna in 4ohm triode mode which is it’s healthier looking output, you haven’t got a lot of grunt there to play with.
I think out of the two speakers you mentioned the Druid is by far the better match impedance wise and efficiency wise if you like their sound.
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/zu20/plot1_big.png

To me I would like the Revels better, "with the right amp" but this graph of the 208 is said to be similar to the 206 as you can see there are current hungry loads at 30hz and 60-150hz and again at 3khz all with highish -phase angles.
https://www.stereophile.com/images/714R208fig1.jpg

My suggestion is to keep the Revels and get the right amp, which will then drive "most" things down the track.

Cheers George

I’ve been enjoying my HP for 3 years.

Using specs on paper to match with the HP or any amp makes perfect sense. Especially when playing with gear with pricing that STARTS in the thousands!

You really (if you have the opportunity) need to just demo as many as you can with your amp. Bring it to a showroom if possible. Yeah, it’s a back breaker, but 5k to me, is a lot of dough to not be picky and choose what my ears like, not what’s "right" on a spec sheet.

On paper, many different speaker designs are not optimal yet plugged in, they may sound great to you.

Ive read posts stating ML stats won’t sound good with the PL, yet others(including myself) disagree.

I have sealed floorstanders. Mine are however, 7 years old. For the money they sound great. The updated model (Opera Seconda) is not a sealed cabinet,with a supplied plug for personal tuning. They are allegedly a notch or two better, sonically. They are at the top of your budget. Italian build with nice veneer and leather. I think the latest version is faux leather.

An upgrade possibly years end will be the Sonus Faber Venere S in walnut. Or, I may do some stats,if I find a great deal. Both can be had in your budget. I don’t suggest them for you however.I would just get out and try to hear as many different models and let your ears be the final judge.

The PL HP seems to be a popular subject line lately.

I had the Druid v's and I currently own def 4's which are in my 2nd system.

I upgraded both as much as possible and tried several amp combinations over a period of time and I came to the conclusion that the frd doesn't measure flat and has a bump up in frequency around 2k to 4K,just a shortcoming to the mechanical crossover to the whizzer cone.

They are a very lively and vivid speaker especially the def's having 2 frd.

I recently moved to the Tekton double impact and couldn't be happier.
Tekton does make several smaller models that you might check out for your smaller room.

Kenny.