Spatial M3 Triode Master Preamp/amp choices

Thanks @supabayes.  That is very helpful. Good to know that the F7, XA25, and the LM219IA may not pair as well as i hoped and that the Kinki, though good is cold. 

I have tried M3TM with various tubes and ss amps and impression with regard to bass:

LM219IA - warm sounding but weak bass

F7 - musical with average bass

XA25 - slight warmer sound with average bass

kinki studio ex m1 - very good bass but it is cold sounding

Vista Spark (not version2)  - great bass, warm and musical

Manley Snapper - great bass and musical. Warmth depending on the preamp. 

What’s surprising to me was the synergy between M3TM and the 20w Vista Spark, which cost me less than 350usd. 

Thanks @atmasphere your article will be my Christmas weekend relaxation reading.Thanks @kettle7830 for the additional choices to consider. Thanks @doneaton for your experience powering the Spatials.  

I run my M3 Triode Masters with an Audio by Van Alstine Vision SET 120 power amp. Rated at 60wpc at 8 ohms, Frank Van Alstine figured it was probably putting out 45-50wpc into the 12 ohm Spatials, and would be running in Class A under normal listening conditions. Even in my frequently abnormal (LOUD!!!) listening, it has a firm grip on those four 15" drivers in my 15'x28' room. I've never felt the need for a more powerful amp. Your mileage may vary.

I have M3 Triode Masters and have found that these speakers sound better to me with a solid state amp.  I settled on  a Sugden A21 Se class A integrated and a Croft integrated.  For the cost the Croft  tube/solid state hybrid is a great match.  You can also modify the sound with a tube swap.  Both of these amps also sound equally good with my  Devore O-93s. 

@jplunkettj   You might want to contact Clayton and ask him what sort of output impedance he expects with amps that drive his speakers. All the installations I've seen have used amps with a fairly high output impedance.


While I've heard class D amps sound very smooth and detailed, they tend to have the lowest output impedance of any amps. Clayton's speakers may not be designed for that (as seen by his use of amp with higher output impedance). The way you would design a crossover for a speaker meant for an amp of high output impedance tends to be different for a speaker meant for one with a low output impedance. For more on this topic see:
http://www.atma-sphere.com/en/resources-paradigms-in-amplifier-design.html

linear tube audio is really onto something brilliant with their zotl amps

just tremendously clean extended dynamic sound with tube goodness - my spatials are not a crazy hard load but it is 4 ohms and 4x 15 in woofers and the control is outstanding - all this and 3-4-5x normal power tube life...

i have their zotl 40 reference, extremely impressed

i maybe get a touch more richness from my arc ref 75 amp running kt120's but it is soooo close, more different than better/worse

Thanks @aldoallen and @jjss49 for the owner experience advice.  The guy i got my M3s from was using an LTA Zotl 10 which he highly recommended and did sound fantastic. Unfortunately, I do not have the budget for it or @atmasphere s equipment.  I'll add the Hegels to my search as well. If I go experimental and try the Microzotl w/ Purifi amp combo, does anyone have recommendations on which company is doing good implementations? I was looking at March, Nord, and Appolon.

I own the Spatial Audio M4 Triode Masters. These are the smaller version of your speakers. I started with a Cary Rocket 88R tube amp that was good for 60 watts in ultralinear mode. I tried EL34 and KT88 tubes but the bass just disappeared when music was played. I listen to mostly jazz at normal levels so it's not like I was asking for a lot of bass. The amp was a good one but I don't think the tubes played well with the open baffle speakers.
 I then moved on to a solid state CODA 10.5R amplifier (100 watts with first 25 watts in Class A) teamed up with an LTA mz3 preamp. This combination is very good and provides all the bass the speakers can put out. The LTA MZ3 was so good I decided to try LTA's ZOTL10 amplifier. Even though the ZOTL 10 is only 10 watts, it drives the speakers as well (if not better) than the CODA amp. Even though the ZOTL is a tube amplifier, the low end frequency response is more like a solid state amp.
Given your budget, the LTA amp and preamp are going to be way over what you want to spend. For your budget, I would recommend a used quality solid state amplifier like the CODA ( I purchased it used for $1,200.00) and a new or used tube preamplifier.

if you want to avoid tubes just get a hegel rost or h160 or h190 be done... absolutely brilliant sounding ss amps that will grip the spatial’s woofers and be transparent and free of any ss harshness

it will not give you tube sweetness but it will provide utter blackness of silence, tremendous bass foundation and control, and a super sophisticated refined midrange and treble... you can then add a tubed dac for some tubey magic

i have no affiliation to hegel (other than having 4 of them hahahaha)

I know our amps work very nicely on that speaker according to Clayton. I would expect the ARC to be a bit dry on that speaker. The Purifi amp with a tube preamp is worth exploration- depending greatly on who did the implementation of the Purify module. You might also look at Berning as he has some very musical amplifiers that should work nicely with the Spatials.

Thanks @atmasphere , @jackd and @jjss49 for steering me strait.  I can definitely tell that my old NAD 2100 is not up to the task of adequately driving the Spatials it works great until i start increasing the volume over 90 db and just doesnt seem to do much.  I normally do not listen loud but i do not want the speakers restricted by a mismatch of equipment.  I am not wedded to tubes, in fact, i have never had tubes.  The Kinki studio is one i had thought about.  There are also favorable reviews for the Doge PACD MKIII push pull 60w kt88 amp.  There is also an Audio Research VT100MkII available in my area with new tubes in it.  I also wondered if a LTA Microzotl used as a preamp paired with a new Purifi amp might be a good combo for the Spatials?  Are there any l tried and true combos i should consider for the Spatials?

If you are willing to get away from the tube idea a really great integrated amp that is a within your budget and goes well with the Spatial's is the newest version of the Kinki Studio EX-M1 at $2398 shipped. I've tried EL-84, EL-34 and KT-88 tube amps with the M3TM's from 35-60 wpc monos and was never satisfied with the extension on either end.

https://www.kinki-studio.com/ex-m1

i agree w jack

clayton makes lovely speakers but their efficiency ratings belie what is needed to make the speaker perform well... after all do see those two gigantic woofers? these babies need damping factor and control to make the speakers sound right... so flea watt amps need not apply unless you listen real soft...

i would say 30-40 tube watts minimum

i think one of the major improvements to the m3 sapphire which i have from the prior series m3’s spatial made is the improved resolution of the tweeter, so you may want to stick with the less tubey sounding tube amps... i would think audio research linear tube audio air tight top decware or even a tube hybrid amp...

I have owned a pair for over three years and those  specifications are really misleading as to what kind of power that really need for those speakers to shine. Now if you are just looking for background levels then those will be fine. 

You'll want a bit of power- 50-60 watts is nice; you'll have trouble clipping an amp with that kind of power. My speakers are 98dB and I find that about half that- 30 watts- is about right in my room of similar size. Owing to the fact that your speakers are 3dB less efficient, you'll need twice as much power to get the same volume levels.


Of course I don't listen at super high levels all the time; most of it is likely less than 1 watt! For this reason I would be careful about the amp you get- you want bandwidth and low distortion, but an important property of the amplifier is also that as you decrease power, the distortion goes down with it to unmeasurable. This is something that SETs do very well, but getting enough power is tricky with SETs (if you run them past about 20% of full power, the distortion that starts to show up causes the amp to sound 'dynamic' because the ear uses the harmonics generated as cues to how loud its playing) since the large the SET, the less bandwidth you get.

So you'll need a push-pull amp. Finding one that has that distortion property I mentioned above is a trick but I can tell you that to do that with push-pull, the amp needs to be fully balanced and differential from input to output. This causes its primary distortion component to the the 3rd harmonic with succeeding harmonics at a much lower level. If the amp does not run feedback then its distortion will be linearly decreasing as the power is decreased. This is desirable because that first watt is so important to getting the system to behave and sound like music.

Other things that will help an amp of this sort- class A operation, and if you can find it, triode output tubes (as they are more linear). If the amp runs pentodes, it will need feedback to sound right, as pentodes are not that linear.