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Source of Fremer's "1 arc second" claim?

In the latest TAS April 2025, page 34, Fremer reviews some Technics TT, and repeats his claim that "listeners in blind tests could hear arc second speed shifts". where one revolution ~1.3 million arc seconds. Anybody have any idea where this is coming from?

Basic math will make you wonder whether any listener can hear a difference between chamber a' = 440.00000 Hz and 440.00004 Hz, rounding the 1.3M to an even 1M. When tuning my violins, I can hear 2–3 cent difference, where 800 cents = 1 octave = doubling of frequency. At 2 cents, that is over 1 full Herz difference. Even playing a cord with tones at 1 Hz difference will result in an oscillation at 1 Hz, i.e. peak to peak 1 second. For easy math, assume even a 0.00005 difference, which would lead to an oscillation with frequency of 20,000 seconds = 33 minutes. Good luck hearing that. 

"Golden Ears" being able to hear ten times better than a normal human, why not. But 20K better? We are off by several orders of magnitude. Maybe I don't understand that he is talking about, but I consider it complete BS.

Maybe it has to do with consistency (accuracy vs. precision), but then the a different unit needs to be used that includes time in the denominator. But even then the math/physics don't add up.

If anybody can provide any insights, LMK. Thanks!

The alternative is rather unflattering for Mr. Fremer.

oberoniaomnia
Post removed 
oberoniaomnia OP
150 posts
 

@kijanki The whole "equal temperament" piano tuning is a whole other story, with splitting the comma. There is a nice book "How Equal Temperament Ruined Harmony", interesting read. For those of us who appreciate natural trumpet and other harmonics driven instruments such as tromba marina.

I completely agree that the complexity of music completely obliterates those tiny frequency differences. Heck, vibrato (if you must use it as an ornament) by far exceeds 1 Hz. 

My question, though, is: Anybody have any idea where Frermer comes up with this? 

jasonbourne71's avatar
jasonbourne71
1,326 posts
 

Along with X - Ray vision another trait only Superman has!

tablejockey
3,992 posts
 

Audiophile/phools  possess hearing skills superior to any mammal.

Some even treat this hobby as if they as playing an actual musical instrument 😂!

One time at an audio show, the exhibitor played LP I  had with me.

In the group of listeners were a few high falutun, self absorbed/proclaimed "experts"  The group made all those audio adjectives, and how great the recording and system was.

I was hearing a lopsided presentation?

Looked around and noticed the left speaker cable was disconnected!

Respectfully, I waited until the music finished and pulled the exhibitor aside to inform him....

I have massive tinnitus and 7KHZ hearing defict. 

 

lewm
13,448 posts
 

All my TT experience suggests that speed constancy, the ability to maintain a single speed despite stylus drag, belt slip, belt creep, motor inaccuracy, etc, is much more important than speed accuracy (meaning centering a varying speed around 33.33 rpm but allowing for up and down drift of up to 1.0 rpm or even a little more). I probably have average pitch recognition, so maybe there are others who are bothered by 34 rpm (for example) vs 33.33 rpm.  I find that I am not especially sensitive to such a difference, provided speed does not vary. So I very much doubt the veracity of what MF claims here.

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