Source of Fremer's "1 arc second" claim?


In the latest TAS April 2025, page 34, Fremer reviews some Technics TT, and repeats his claim that "listeners in blind tests could hear arc second speed shifts". where one revolution ~1.3 million arc seconds. Anybody have any idea where this is coming from?

Basic math will make you wonder whether any listener can hear a difference between chamber a' = 440.00000 Hz and 440.00004 Hz, rounding the 1.3M to an even 1M. When tuning my violins, I can hear 2–3 cent difference, where 800 cents = 1 octave = doubling of frequency. At 2 cents, that is over 1 full Herz difference. Even playing a cord with tones at 1 Hz difference will result in an oscillation at 1 Hz, i.e. peak to peak 1 second. For easy math, assume even a 0.00005 difference, which would lead to an oscillation with frequency of 20,000 seconds = 33 minutes. Good luck hearing that. 

"Golden Ears" being able to hear ten times better than a normal human, why not. But 20K better? We are off by several orders of magnitude. Maybe I don't understand that he is talking about, but I consider it complete BS.

Maybe it has to do with consistency (accuracy vs. precision), but then the a different unit needs to be used that includes time in the denominator. But even then the math/physics don't add up.

If anybody can provide any insights, LMK. Thanks!

The alternative is rather unflattering for Mr. Fremer.

oberoniaomnia

Showing 4 responses by lewm

All of the EMs at the National Institutes of Health are in the basements of the various buildings that house them. The one in our building was not further stabilized by any sort of air suspension. Yet it was stable enough to permit visualization of subviral particles. Three of my friends collaborated to identify Hepatitis A virus on that ’scope. I will grant you that the building was built during the Cold War and designed to sustain an atomic blast.  The walls throughout the 3 story building were 2 to 3 feet thick.  So probably the basement floor was sitting on many feet of poured concrete. Nevertheless, I take issue with the notion that even a typical poured concrete basement floor "isn’t that inert at all".  We are talking about playing a record, not running an EM lab. And there are no train or truck routes through most neighborhoods we affluent audiophiles inhabit.

Yoyo, It seems you are insisting there must have been a difference that would be clearly evident to keen audiophile ears, when MF had to listen to the Wilson Benesch TT without the ThorLabs base.  How can you possibly know that unless you were at his home, in his room, at the right times?  A poured concrete basement floor is very inert without help from an air suspended base between it and a TT.

I don't think MF has anything whatever to do with OMA or even the K3, in a business sense.  Odds are he borrowed the K3 from OMA for an extended period of time, but I certainly do not claim to know that for a fact.  He may actually own it. And I don't think he is corrupt in any way, except subconsciously in the way we all are not to be trusted.  He says what he thinks. I think his main problem when discussing technical aspects of audio is that he has no scientific background to allow him to critique the BS he is fed.  (Someone else already said this, and I agree.) Very often he is just parroting what the manufacturer told him or what the manufacturer wrote in a brochure, uncritically.  On the other hand, we vinylphiles all owe him a debt of gratitude for his role in revitalizing this pursuit, and he is by no means a MFer. He could do with having a physicist or engineer available as a consultant to edit the tech aspects of his reviews.

All my TT experience suggests that speed constancy, the ability to maintain a single speed despite stylus drag, belt slip, belt creep, motor inaccuracy, etc, is much more important than speed accuracy (meaning centering a varying speed around 33.33 rpm but allowing for up and down drift of up to 1.0 rpm or even a little more). I probably have average pitch recognition, so maybe there are others who are bothered by 34 rpm (for example) vs 33.33 rpm.  I find that I am not especially sensitive to such a difference, provided speed does not vary. So I very much doubt the veracity of what MF claims here.