Soundsmith Progression: MIMC Star > Sussurro Mk II

Nice turntable dodge.

???

I usually set up my own tables but for the VPI HW set it up in the shop at Cliffwood so I’m guessing he got the StP distance correct.

crickets............

My point was going to be, with my Classic 3 Sig SE, it was. I can only assume, their are many VPI owners out there that don't realize this and take for granted their VPI tt's are performing at their best.

So if your StP distance was off, your evaluation was off as well.

@dodgealum,

Just wondering.... assuming you install your own cartridges, did you ever notice the StP distance being off on the VPI?

Ended up selling my VPI and going in a different direction. I'm now enjoying a Sempersonus TE-2 idler-type (inner rim drive) table with a 12" TW Raven arm and a Charisma Signature One cartridge. I like the MIMC Star but felt it never achieved the same level of performance as the ART 9 it replaced. It did a few things better but the ART 9 is an exceptionally well-balanced cartridge and a great value for money. The Charisma, while paired with an entirely different arm and table, is clearly in another league all together. I doubt the Sussuro can touch it though they are priced similarly.

Hey,

I have around 2500 hours on my Sussurro MkII, still sounds great. I have settled on VTA being ever so slightly higher at the back of the cartridge ( may be because all of the hours). I recently bought a demo Zephyr MIMC * ES lo, for when I send the Sussurro back.

Steve

Hey Soundsmith team,

Hope all is well and health and life. Its been nearly two years since I and a few other Soundsmith owners have purchased either Sussaro MKII or Hyperion. For me, It’s been a great ride and I play the Sussaro cartridge a lot. What else am I to do during these strange quarantine times. My Benz’s do get some love from time to time, but the musical listening qualities with the Sussaro are addicting. 

How many hours do you have on either your Sussaro or Hyperion? 
I think I am roughy at 1200 hours and starting to hear slight degradation in performance. Compared to either my Benz LPS, Benz Ruby Z or Transrotor Merlo Reference it’s definitely sounding somewhat distorted. Did all of the normal audio geek troubleshooting things, clean stylus, verify VTA, overhang, etc., and all of that is good. In fact, the Fozgometer shows no channel deviation in the Analog test disc tracks 1 and 2 for channel testing. I also experimented with load, all the way up to 47k down to 100...nope, it’s that signature sound of cartridge degradation happening. Been there done that many times. How many of you have reached the end of useable service life with your Soundsmith? 
It’s time to send it off to Soundsmith for a retip. 
Please provide updates living with your Soundsmith and what tracking forces and loading you settled into. Happy listening😀
Audioquest4life 

Thanks @slaw. Mine appears to be the same.

@tonyptony ,

It's a close call with my old eyes but I'd say it's level with a regular weight lp.

@slaw , where did you settle on the VTA for the Sussurro? Is the cart body level, or tipped up the rear a bit?

Based upon your post, I'd say you have already answered your own question.

This has probably been the most informative cartridge post I’ve read in a while. Thank you everyone. I currently have a Zephyr mk3 h/o with maybe only 100 hrs (which I enjoy quite a bit) and was on sale and within budget after my recent TT adventure. Short of 20 years of Technics 1200’s and dj carts, I’ve only had a dedicated TT (Isokinetik 1.5) in my man cave for a couple of months and much of this is new territory for me. My McStack has been fed digital previously. I have been half heartedly looking around at an upgrade after a recent purchase of a Pass XP17. Considering something low output because of the versatility of the Pass. I was originally poking around online for more info on a Zephyr MIMC.. then saw Aida’s were on sale. Wasn’t sure if that would be enough of a jump then searched around a bit more and found Sussurru’s on sale (That Sussurro price is almost too good to pass up).. then this thread.. stage 4 analysis paralysis. My wallet is telling me to slow down and wait for the next round of sales. Are there actually large increases in performance between these models or more on the incremental level? Current arm is an OL Onyx, but I have an Audiomods v6 currently ordered.

I finally installed the cartridge tonight. I first checked its frequency response with the Feickert Adjust+ disk. At 1,000 Ohms loaded on my Pass XP-15, there is a rise in the upper octaves. I lowered it to 250 Ohms and the upper octaves have leveled out nicely. But there is a small trough from about 300Hz to a few KHz. I'm going to assume this is by design. If my cart is representative, going to 1K and beyond will really accentuate the high end at the expense of a more even FR, but YMMV. 

I appreciate all the comments so far. I agree that the Soundsmith cartridges will play up as you improve your system around them--I did not fully appreciate what the MIMC Star could do until I upgraded my speakers and cabling. The MIMC Star stepped right in stride and is really letting me see what the new components are capable of in my system.

I’m right at the 50 hour mark now. I’m so involved in the music There’s no hint of brightness or etch and all the while every part of the frequency spectrum is presented so real and full. If things get better, I’m all for it Otherwise, I’m very, very happy.

For me, it has boosted my confidence regarding the years I've spent building my system and now, finally hearing what it is capable of. So rewarding!

I agree with you that it would be so nice to be able to hear and compare these things.  Soundsmith is active at the audio shows.  Perhaps that would afford the best chance for an audition, although I find it difficult to evaluate anything when everything is different, but that is me.  As you say the other components, not to mention the room itself are all factors that make it difficult to evaluate audio components.  I rely on reviewers, and Anthony Cordesman has been a consistent advocate for Soundsmith for years.  Another credible guy, IMHO, is Mikey Freman and he, too, has consistently spoken highly of Soundsmith. 

Very nice...and intriguing as well. Everything you describe is pretty much what I am hearing with the MKII. It is without a doubt the best my system has ever sounded. Also, I believe If one has a high resolution system, that these descriptors are more easily discernible. I would definitely like to test drive and listen to the Hyperion in my system one day. For now, I have achieved a level of listening nirvana that is beyond whatever I experienced before. Happy listening. 

The mounting of the cantilever is essentially identical to a metal one.  I examined the construction and paid particular attention to how the stylus is mounted to the cantilever using a Wild-Heerbrugg microscope.  Everything looks good.  Can't comment on how the cactus will age, but the 10 year warranty is there and I don't expect trouble. 

I have several other cartridges, the most similar being an Ortofon Per Winfeld, which has been my favorite cartridge of years.  I prefer it to the A95, which would be a good comparison to your Sussaro I'd think.  The Winfeld is more laid back, smaller sound stage, very neutral, some would call it boring.  The Hyperion, opens up the sound stage, has an uncanny way of separating every instrument and voice, almost like a pointillistic painting, textures are palpable.  It takes rosin on the bow to a whole new level, almost like you can count each vibration of the bow string separately.  The goose bump factor is off the charts.  I have never heard anything like it.  Life like doesn't even begin to cover it. 

@billstevenson

“ Motivated like the rest of you by the great promotional pricing, I went whole hog and bought a Hyperion MkII. Phono Stage is a Conrad Johnson TEA1series3. The high gain stage has a fixed loading of 430 ohms. Right now it is mounted in my Technics SL1200GAE. The choice of headshell, proved tricky. It turns out a Zupreme sounds lively, a Yamamoto HS-4S sounds dull and lifeless. Still can't figure out why. Anyway, the Hyperion is really amazing as you would expect. I have been using an Ortofon Per Winfeld (original), which is also a very nice cartridge, but the Hyperion is just a whole new ball game.“

I was tempted to purchase this as well but opted for the Sussaro MKII. I was concerned and a bit intrigued by the cactus cantilever...how is the sound transmitted compared to metal and would I need to worry about the cactus cantilever falling off..,is it mounted the same as a metal version, all of these questions had me opt for The Sussaro. Wife said this is the best setup we ever had, and that it blows the LPS out of the water, so glad I made that purchase. 

Have you you had a chance to compared the Hyperion against other cartridges and what sound superlatives would you use to describe it. Happy listening

I really never thought of a cartridge as a component until now.

Motivated like the rest of you by the great promotional pricing, I went whole hog and bought a Hyperion MkII.  Phono Stage is a Conrad Johnson TEA1series3.  The high gain stage has a fixed loading of 430 ohms.  Right now it is mounted in my Technics SL1200GAE.  The choice of headshell, proved tricky.  It turns out a Zupreme sounds lively, a Yamamoto HS-4S sounds dull and lifeless.  Still can't figure out why.  Anyway, the Hyperion is really amazing as you would expect.  I have been using an Ortofon Per Winfeld (original), which is also a very nice cartridge, but the Hyperion is just a whole new ball game.

You're telling me! If there wasn't the risk of Elusive Disc running out of stock on the Sussurro I'd still be questioning making the move, even with all the good reviews it's got. 

The absence of “try before you buy” with cartridges, seemingly more so than with other components given the sheer variety, their delicacy, and the difficulty of setting them up in demos, has led me to a virtual choice paralysis.  Not much to go on beyond reviews. Not such a big deal on the low end of the price spectrum, but it’s a real issue when you are looking at cartridges that cost $$$. 

Yes. Good thread. I'd love to hear the SS against my Decca Super Gold (paratrace tipped from the Reference). Like most of us, I wish you could try before you buy.

This is really a great read!
I purchased a Sussuro MKII a couple months ago but have not had the time to mount it and wont for a little while...

Enjoying this thread very much!

Good discussion here...thanks everyone. Just to add for those thinking about the MIMC Star. I would echo the list of points made by Slaw for this model as well. Ease of set up, love the wings protecting the cantilever, very quiet, incredible staging--very wide, deep with excellent location. Tonally spot on--very clean but also faithful to the tone across the board. I liked the MIMC Star very much until I replaced my speakers with a pair from the same manufacturer--Daedalus Audio. The new Apollo's have the same house sound as my old pair but are more resolving and a little leaner in the mid bass region. My respect for the MIMC Star has jumped considerably--this is a cartridge that can really be partnered with some great equipment. It will deliver the goods and then some. I can only imagine what happens with the Sussuro MKII. 

@slaw 

concur with you on all points. Going to dig out my Pink Floyd and give it a spin now. We are definitely getting something that literally has changed my perspective of listening. This is my new benchmark...,and I don’t think I am being too optimistic, but now, I don’t feel like saving up for a stone body koetsu anymore. I always stated that the LPS was a lesser version of a koetsu stone, namely the onyx, but the MKII takes it to the top. When I first heard the Onyx, I thought I just have to have it, but years later, I believe the MKII cuts a note like no other cartridge at this price point, or even two or three times. 

A couple other points...

The way the cartridge body extends down to surround the cantilever on both sides, aides in the set-up process, while adding protection.

This cartridge plays dead quiet.

I think I have around 12 listening hours on the Sussuro MkII now. Here are the main attributes I experience now compared to any other cart I own. This cart originally cost twice, at retail, to any other cart I've ever owned. At the price I paid,  it was an absolute steal.
1. Ease of set-up. This is key, because it speaks to the quality of the parts used and the builder's expertise. This really inspires confidence for the end user. It's the end user's first impression, so to speak.
2. The soundstage is huge and presents more naturally than I've ever heard. It's all of one piece.
3. The tonal presentation of every voice, every instrument is superior. Playing PF "The Wall" (2016 re-master)… the bass drum and bass guitar have superior fullness. This lp is absolutely awesome.
4. It seems to have all of the positive attributes of MM and MC, melding them together for a perfect cart.

One of the best purchases I've made.

@tonyptony 

Great and  good luck Good luck installing. Listening to Sade Promise LP and it’s quite fantastic with this cartridge. Again, voicing is so uncanny accurate and instrumentals so lifelike as well. The first side with Sweetest Taboo is so awesome, lots of saxophone. 

So my primary cartridge is a Lyra Kleos, which is almost new.  My backup is a first generation SS Zephyr.  I understand that SS provides for a substantial trade up credit.

I was thinking about the MIMC STAR.  Comments and advice would be welcome.

Thanks

BIF  

Fantastic! Thanks @audioquest4life . You have a Ruby Z too? That's another Benz I was lusting after! From the sound of it, though, I should be pretty happy with the MkII. It arrived today!

@tonyptony,

Sure. Well, if you like the LPS, the MKII is an LPS turbocharged or taking all of those excellent qualities we like from the LPS and amplifying them to at last 3-5 times better. That’s just direct LPS traits comparison. Further, the way that the MKII digs out the clarity, resonance, and harmonizes human voices has me shaking my head in disbelief. The voices just seem to stand out in a way that is just plainly more real and human. While the LPS is great, it is no match to the way that The MKII extracts the human vocals from a record. Additionally, the separation and soundstaging are better, with distinct separation of musicians on either or left or panned in the sound field, the MKII does this better than the LPS. Jazz ensembles or rock where flute, horn, or cymbals are part of the song, also exude a form of naturalness to the music that when all of these attributes combined, and your system is able to take advantage of what The MKII has to offer, you will close your eyes and either fall asleep from the enjoyment and ease of the music, or think that the musicians and the band are in the room. I have been playing the MOFI edition of Marvin Gaye, what’s going on, and Marvin’s voice is so clear and articulate with the resonance of his breathing distinctly showcased with the MKII. The songs What’s going on and Save the Children connect with me way more emotionally with the MKII than the LPS, and the LPS is no slouch either. 

Another song I play often for sampling new equipment is from Supertramp, ,another MOFI, Breakfast in America LP, the song Child of Vision. This song has it all, drums, saxophone, piano, cymbals, and excellent voicing. What I look for in this LP is two things,,,the staging of the piano, and the sax at the end. The piano used with the LPS while sounding great, depicted a front soundstage with the keys being hit at varying intensity panning somewhat from left to right. With the MKII, the piano is clearing panning from front to back in a different way...away from the center but you know the keys are being hit acrosss the keyboard in a direction, and you can track it, perhaps the wider stereo separation and/or I am hearing the layout of the piano as if is angled towards the center, not sure, but it makes me feel as if the piano is being struck there and I am hearing the panning across the keyboard from either left to right, or right to left in a way that seems more realistic. The saxophone at the end seems to resonant louder compared to the LPs, also with more saxophone bite and edge. 

The Three Blind Mice 45 rpm box set is another benchmark LP for me as well. The Blow Up sessions, with the song Aqua Marine will have you just sit there in bewilderment as at first the bow instruments cut across the air like a knife, then they roll into the drums, cymbals, and several crescendos, will have you scratching your head as to what the heck you just heard. Not just for the song, which is very eclectic, but the way the instrument portrayal hits you. I was amazed the first time I heard this song with the LPS, and I am even more amazed with this song using The MKII. 

I am setteled at 4.75k ohms with the Aesthetix IO signature for now and have around 55 hours so far, and climbing. 

Thinking about installing my Benz Ruby Z to see how this compares to that as well. 

I don’t know if the new D series Sussaro is way better than the MKII but I know the MKII is better than the LPS, at least in my system. Not sure how Soundsmith could make the Sussaro better, but maybe it sounds different in D series configuration. This is first MI cartridge and first purchase from Soundsmith. I can wholeheartedly state that I am more than satisfied with this cartridge. Happy listening. 

@audioquest4life, I know slaw asked a little while ago, but any further observations you have on the sound of the Sussurro MkII compared to the LP-S would be most welcome. I use a Wood SL right now, and was looking for a step up to either the MkII or the LP-S. I chose the MkII, which is on its way to me.

………………………………….
instead of one portion/instrument overtaking a part of the soundstage.. it's still there just integrated to a degree that is so natural....

transients are profound, yet not in your face
soundstage is wide and very natural
dynamics are better without any brightness
before there was a distinct pocket of center stage and R & L, now they are still easily delineated yet are melded into a very enjoyable ONE.
the outer edges of the music you never knew was there, is suddenly placed in the soundscape so naturally

a very smooth yet proper presentation. nothing missing

Some really good things are starting to happen now...………...

Good to hear (pun intended) slaw! Keep us posted 

@boxer12,

1st of all, it's a breeze to set up! Initially, I have it running @ 500ohms. Granted, I just installed it so it's going through the normal back & forth, and I haven't yet tried it on many different genres, but it just seems right and I get a feeling that it will settle in to be a great cart.

How is it sounding Slaw? 

Finally installed mine just now.

I've used a Voice(ebony) for about 8 years now. The Soundsmith cartridges deserve the best turntable, arm and phono stage one can provide them.

The LPS has been my go to cartridge for years....I was saving for a Koetsu Onyx, but, might not have to anymore😀

Sure digging the sound from this Soundsmith. 

@audioquest4life ,

That sounded great! It's interesting you made a comparison to the Benz LPS. My (trusted friend) has that same cart.

Not quite broken in, at 30 hours, but starting to get a taste of the sound, and it’s sweet. When new, I tried the recommended 470 ohms, then 1000, and up from there all the way to 47k....then back 470, this on an Aesthetix IO Signature tube phono stage. All along, The Sussaro had an extraordinarily extended highs, but being still new, a little dry and analytical sounding. Stayed at 470 for a about 10 hours, and while the resolution was excellent, it still seemed to be somewhat shouty, and a just a tad dry. I went to 243 last weekend, and wow...loss of that last bit of dryness and shouty sound, now it’s sounding like it found its groove. Perhaps, the phono XLR (Silver Breeze) cables added a touch too much capacitance, but for now, very Benz LPS like, but with added dimensions, width, and details. So, liking this so far based on the direction it’s going. The stereo separation is way beyond any cartridge I have ever heard in my system, or at trade shows, it is one of its strong points for sure. Listened to the new Stevie Nicks Crystal Visions, Very best greatest hits LP, and it sounded fantastic. Also, played some old school Santana, 45 rpm edition, and it was also great, with cymbals extremely clear. Played a Doobie Brother LP, and the song it keeps you running, is a benchmark song for me, as I play this a lot...man, the spaciousness is incredible, and before, it was already great. This is my first Soundsmith MI cartridge, but for anyone not used to it’s stereo spaciousness, you may be alarmed in a good way, that sound is extending to the far left and right of your speakers. It makes for listening to the same old music sound like a new listen. I will stay settled in a 243 for a while and see what happens after about 10 more hours. Will post a follow up after that.

How about anyone else, what’s been your listening impressions? Eager to hear your experience and to what cartridge you compared with or replaced.

Ciao

Congrats on the sussero, looking forward to hearing your impressions.


And if you don’t mind, I’d like to know any thoughts on the Star vs sussero etc since I have a star on the way. From the reviews I’ve read it’s a full, organic, and dynamic cart and not at all bright (though PL has been quoted saying it’s less warm than some others). Any thoughts on diminishing returns as you go up the line would be great. 

I load my Paua at 470. I moved up from the Mimc (non star first version) and I’m quite pleased. Does everything I liked about the mimc up a few notches. 

Peter recommenced I go worh the Paua over the new star version and the sussoro given I wanted to retain some warmth in the sound. 

Would love to hear the new Hyperion one day.